Packers: 34 Lions: 12
By Aaron Nagler on Nov 27, 2009 with 77 Comments
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Charles Woodson, Aaron Rodgers, Donald Driver |
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Jarrett Bush, Kickoff Coverage, Jordy Nelson |
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Mason Crosby |
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Filed Under: Good Bad Ugly
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Two key things to every game, time of possession and field position. It is clear now that these 48 plus yard field goals are not working, just kills our field position and hurts our defense. Our kicking game is up there with our O-line. MM has to call the game with this in mind.
” So you’re going to say that Crosby has been anything other than a poor kicker? Can you actually sustain that argument? ”
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Crosby is in a minor slump…….. This discussion had to do with “cutting” him…….. Can you actually sustain the argument that he should be cut? ……. It’s a simple question with a simple answer ……… MY answer is ‘of course not’. ……. Now using your intellect only, if you’re capable, draw your own conclusions……… Sorry about that, more sarcasm…….. LOL.
I just watched the replay of the Tramon Williams INT that JerseyAl was talking about in the Gut Reactions post. Wow. Bush had no idea where he was on that play, and we are lucky Stafford made a bad decision because Calvin Johnson ran right past him. I cannot believe how awful Jarrett Bush is at the game of football. It’s not like he’s a rookie, he’s just AWFUL at this point.
Yeah, your sarcasm makes you look like you can’t sustain an argument with reason…
I do agree that he should’t be cut NOW, however, I think the discussion to begin with was “should the Packers bring competition to Crosby?”. And regarding that subject, I believe the answer is a pretty clear yes.
PackersRS
Sorry, but you are mistaken.
4th post in this blog is the initial starting point for this whole back & forth………. ” If Crosby misses another field goal, he should be cut. “…. Attention to detail is vital if you are trying to make a point……. I very rarely post anything that might cause a conflict unless I have all my bases covered …….. Try it sometime.
I’d like to fix the redzone issues so we can say, “Who?, Mason Crosby…,never heard of him. what does he do?”
In that same post, the author said that that was highly unlikely… Attention to detail… Maybe you should try capturing the intention of the writer…
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Also, I was basing myself in this :”Perhaps this is what happens when TT doesn’t bring in any competition to push our kicker in training camp.”
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And I hadn’t read what you’d written before, but 3 good games against 8 bad games… Unless you’re gonna say that McCarthy had a good gameplan prior to the Cowboys game… A playoff berth? Pay attention to detail… RIGHT NOW I had said. You seem to take things word by word instead of putting them into context. I have also said in other posts that my criteria for judging both MM and TT, since the beggining of the season, is a playoff win. That after 5 years, a competent GM would’ve been done with the rebuilding process, and after 3 years, a competent coach could’ve already put his stamp on the team. So that team should be ready to contend.
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I know since you got lectured by Alex at PackersLounge you’ve gotten a little bit sensitive over Packers questions, but it’s not as simple as either you agree with everything or you’re not a Packers, neither is as simple as “you’re fans, you don’t have the knowledge to know why things are done”. Because you know what? Those are concepts born and applied in the Inquisition…
PackersRS
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You make a good point – before Dallas (and particularly right after Tampa) 90% of folks were calling for TT & MM to go. I’m not ready to reverse that opinion based on wins with Detroit (2-9) and the 49ers (4-6).
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This year was realistically starting to look just like last year. The recent wins have accomplished one thing: holding off a 1st degree sentence for TT/MM (e.g. judged on possible playoff visit). Right now it has been reduced to “manslaughter.” (just ask AR !) lol
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I can’t believe I started this humungous discussion on Mason Crosby!
WoodyG: Crosby is not in a minor slump. He is at 77% this year, and his total percentage for last year was 79%. Not much better. However, after reading some of the recent comments, I have changed my mind about Crosby. Competition should definitely be brought in, but, if his numbers do not improve, he should be cut at the end of the season. Doing so now would just make more problems at the position.
Unfortunately, this blog like many has an atmosphere where the “Negative Nancies” can thrive ……. Cut this player…… Fire this coach ……. Trash whoever is the latest punching-bag as designated by the “Negative Nancies”…… Most of this negativism is not based on sound football knowledge but instead personal emotions……… All the NNs feed off of each others extreme knee-jerk comments ……….
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Aaron hit it exactly a few blogs back…….. ” Wow, it must be hard to be a Packers fan. ” ……. ” …… atop the wild card race and all fans can do is cry……. ” …………. It’s nice to see you all have a place to cry in unison.
WoodyG, I understand your point, and praise your positive approach… However, you can’t completely disregard emotional comments, as we’re all fans, and not analysts.
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You have to put things into contest. I’m pretty sure 90% in here were as positive as you last year, when there was that meltdown. And then in the preseason, 90% in here thought that this team was ready to roll. However, after seeing 8 weeks of the same problems that we had last year, and mediocre football, a lot of people, including myself, changed the approach…
This is my line……. Every NFL team is a work in progress……. The 16 game season allows teams to fluctuate between bad, better & good…… There are only two ‘real’ goals for every team….. A) Qualify for the playoffs B) Peak going into the playoffs……… Nothing else matters………. The doom & gloom fan is such because it’s a protectionary measure ……. It softens the blow of failure by the team if/when that happens………. On the other hand, my approach is simple….. focus on what’s right about GB & rely on the positives to overwhelm the negatives (ie: STs are inadequate but the improving D will more than offset this quandry) ……….. Personally, I picked GB to finish 10-6 in 2009…….. Hell, if I thought GB was going to be great across the board, I would have picked 15-1 or 16-0 ….. I pinned 6 losses on GB before the season started …… A team doesn’t lose 6 games without their flaws……. I’ll remain positive until if/when GB loses a 7th game (it’s unlikely to happen though)……….
I don’t fancy myself a Negitive Nancy, nor do I consider myself to fall in with the knee-jerk reaction crowd.. I’ve been a big proponent of Mason Crosby through last year, and into this year. And I agree that Mike McCarthy’s decisions to attempt long FG’s with Crosby at the risk of surrendering field position has not helped Crosby’s statistics at all- especially when he’s kicking 50+ yarders at 20% efficiency, and McM still continues to try them for apparently no reason at all (Meaning, it’s not the final second of the first half or a situation where the game is on the line and we need the points for a miracle win).
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All that being said, and even though I was stalwart that Crosby would “be fine” this season, I am now at the point where I no longer feel secure about ANY field goal attempt by Crosby. Even on short attempts, he rarely splits the uprights down the center, it seems he’s always just inside the posts. I’ve seen him ‘ding’ in a few this season from relatively short distance. When he misses, it is usually a hard hooking kick that misses by a substantial amount. And even those misses are becoming more random- used to be always wide right, which at least made me feel as though it’s something simple and correctable. This season, he’s hooked them every-which way, left, right. Again, coupled with his erratic performance on kick off depth and hangtime, there’s no more denying it: Something is wrong with Mason Crosby, and he needs to get it figured out. I’m quite happy with the Packers 7-4 record. I think our offense is fine and just needs some minor tweaking, I think our defense is doing a fine job and still just emerging. I believe the Packers have as good a shot of making the playoffs as any team in the NFC (actually, better chance than most at this point!). That said, Packers special teams are the one roadblock that could lead to failure for this team.
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This is not knee-jerk, this is an emerging pattern. Can you honestly say that when Crosby gets trotted out on the grid iron you feel confident that 3 points are secured for the Packers? Two seasons worth of sub-par FG % has me holding my breath at this point. And, yes, Kapinos and the coverage units need to be addressed as well.
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I’ve made no assertions about cutting anyone, but something has to change- be that performance or personnel. To simply say you choose to ignore a glaring issue because other facets of the Packers game is “positive” is like a parent ignoring a child’s slipping grades because he still does his chores so well, and he’s still obedient. It’s not good for the child, and it’s certainly not sound parenting.
“…. is like a parent ignoring a child’s slipping grades because he still does his chores so well, and he’s still obedient. ”
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But you don’t disown your child because of slipping grades……. You find out the problem & with patience try to resolve the issue….. It’s not a real true analogy because a team can disown a player very easily……… However, to point out a problem also requires a viable solution …….. An upgrade at the placekicker position is probably the least guaranteed of all postions …… What would you like to see happen?… How about using a high draft pick in the 2010 draft ala B. Conway in the 3rd round a few years back ? …….. I don’t accept that Crosby is a ‘glaring issue’ ……. And I don’t ignore problem areas….. I just don’t become obsessed with them.
The subjective comportment of Mason Crosby’s detractors is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. The argument is about Senor Crosby, not people posting here. Calling them “Negative Nancies” or whatever is an ad hominem argument. Anyway, compare Crosby’s stats to Gould’s or Gostkowski’s, who kick in similar environments. Crosby is clearly a notch or two below (~5%) those guys in FG%. His kickoffs haven’t lived up to the hype either.
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My guess as to why MM uses Crosby on those near-futile 50+ attempts is that he trusts the punter and punt coverage less than the FG unit.
WoodyG: Correct me if I’m wrongly interpreting your comment, but it sounded like you were saying that we should ignore the Pack’s problems because we want to feel better about ourselves. You said that an NFL team is a work in progress, and I completely agree with you, but how can you improve your team if you spend all your time praising what they are good at, while ignoring the problems that still exist? What’s the point of commenting on how good certain things are as opposed to commenting on what needs to be improved and how to do it? What does it accomplish?
http://i50.tinypic.com/v42djp.gif
PACKERS,
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So are you saying that the coaching staff/management is inept & that they should listen to bloggers on how to run the Packers? I sure as hell hope that NONE of the Packers coaches are reading these sites. Please tell me that I’m interpreting your post incorrectly.
Actually, you are reading my comment incorrectly. As you know, posts and comments on this site talk about both what the Packers are doing well and what they are not doing well. The particular line of discussion on this post was the Packers’ field goal kicking which happens to be something they are not doing well. Just because we were discussing this, one of the comments stated that we are “Negative Nancies” because we happened to be taking about something that the Packers are not doing well in. I was just trying to say that the point of discussing the Pack isn’t just to praise them, but to criticize them where it is deserved. I was by no means suggesting that coaches or management should listen to us, and I agree with you in hoping that they are not. I accept that the way I worded my comment was very poor, but I definitely did not mean that.
Gametime blog:
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Negative Nancies vs. Positive Pansies
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My nickel is on Nancy !
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lol
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ps. In the beginning of the season MM expressed this “think positive” attitude during his press conferences when things were not going well. When this didn’t work on anyone we were told that they had a ‘coming to Jesus’ mtg/ with the team… that was almost too late but has produced results. No need to stop now – several improvements needed. Criticism, like medicine, doesn’t taste good going down. Of course you can go overkill – I mean with TT the ‘remedy has often been worst than the cure’ in the trade and draft … but that’s another story.
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Awesome NickGBP!! That clip of Cutler sums up his season. To think people were scared that this tool was coming to the Norse. Look at his face…hahaha!
I agree. There needs to be a balance of praise and criticism, which there usually is on this site.
p.s.s. How important is a Field Goal Kicker?
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If you don’t think field goal kickers are worth the discussion or examination consider this: Adam Vinatieri took the Patriots to a AFC championship game with a clutch kick in a blizzard (w/ secs. left @ 45 yrds). That led to the first of 3 superbowl wins. In 2 of these 3 SBs (36, 38) it was again his kicks that secured the win in the remaining secs. of the 4th Qrt (48, 41 yard kicks). Like it or not – they are often very critical in the final sum of a season.
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OH, Nick! Priceless! And the look on the ref? Smiling after he hit him… “Take that, you SoB!”
Thought you guys might like to see this artice from the Winona Daily News. Pretty cool
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Flag war:
- – Man raises Vikings, Packers flags every day – -
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Ernest Tainter clasped the metal hooks onto the purple flag and tugged the rope until it was safely in place. He let out a smirk as he pulled his Minnesota Vikings coat tighter around his chest and paused to watch the wind bounce the flag around.
This week, the purple flag will fly at the same level as the Green Bay Packers one. But, Tainer hopes, the purple will tower over the green once again next week.
For nearly five years, passersby at Goodson Manufacturing could tell the outcome of the Minnesota Vikings or Green Bay Packers games by the flag poles – in the middle, an American flag. On the left, a Minnesota Vikings flag. And on the right, a Green Bay Packers flag.
If the flag is at half-staff, it indicates a loss. At full-staff, a victory.
At 9 a.m. sharp every day, Tainter raises the flags – first the American, then the Vikings, then the Packers.
“It’s just a game, but I get a little rowdy once in a while,” he said. “We all do. It starts Thurs-day before each game. There is a lot of big talk about the better team.”
The rivalry between employees is what started the flag tradition. The factory is split right down the middle, said production manager and Packers fan Richard Orlikowski, with 50 percent Vikings fans and 50 percent for the Packers. Oh yeah, and one Chicago Bears fan.
Orlikowski initiated the game when he bought the flags and started raising them every morning himself.
But as age and health problems set in, Orlikowski passed the tradition on to Tainter, as he seemed to have the most passion for football.
Both Tainter and Orlikowski agree that with the economy failing, workers have grasped the flag war as a way to forget about their finance problems and give them something to cheer about.
“We try to build spirits around here,” Orlikowski said. “People have to have something to look forward to.”
But even if his coworkers shake hands and put the rivalry behind them, Tainter will still be outside at 9 a.m. every morning, raising the flags.
“Three people here have purple in their blood,” Orlikowski said. “Ernie is one of them.”
That’s brilliant VikeMike. Thanks for sharing.