Packers: 28 Lions: 26
The good, the Bad and the Ugly from the Packers' win over the Lions.
By PackerAaron
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Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Josh Sitton |
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The Bad |
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Mark Tauscher, AJ Hawk, Dom Capers |
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The Bad |
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Jordy Nelson |
BrokenTV |
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Comments (56)
October 03, 2010 at 10:29 pm
Hawk was in on 12 tackles, had a pick and 2 passes defensed, and he's in the bad? Give me a break.
October 03, 2010 at 10:39 pm
By the way, Hawk's 12 tackles today give him 27 for the year, which trails only C-Wood's 28 for the most on the team. This from a guy who basically didn't get to play in week 1. i have never understood the hate that people have for Hawk. it's ridiculous and unwarranted.
PackerAaron
October 03, 2010 at 10:45 pm
Do a search on the site and link me up where I "hate" on him. I have been more than fair when it comes to Hawk, but at some point it gets tiring watching him make tackles past the first down marker...
October 03, 2010 at 11:46 pm
Too often, Hawk tackles like a cornerback, i.e., it takes him 2-4 yards before he makes contact until he brings the ball carrier down.
PackerAaron
October 03, 2010 at 11:53 pm
Perfectly put. He seems to lack the explosion/violence at the point of contact that you see from the better linebackers in the league.
October 04, 2010 at 02:32 am
I saw Patrick Willis put a hit on Turner today right at the LOS, STOPPED HIM FLAT IN HIS TRACKS. Turner isn't any light load. And I mean once there was contact, Turner did not gain an inch and he wasn't running sideline to sideline, this was a North South f'ing head on collision. I can't remember the last time one of our LB's just flat STONED a mofo in his tracks. And I definitely can't remember the last time AJ did it, not sure he has since he left OSU. Seems everyone always at least falls forward for a yard or two after our guys hit 'em, we just need 'DAT DUDE' a god damn enforcer out there ALA Willis/Lewis. Although, there aren't 32 of those guys out there, sure would be nice though...
GBP 4 LIFE
October 04, 2010 at 07:47 am
There was a play somewhere in the middle of the game where I screamed at the TV and then a minute later saw Nagler tweet the exact same thing.
A back caught the ball in the flat and Hawk approached to tackle and broke down 5 yards in front of him, waiting for the back to come to him. Meanwhile, Woodson charged in and dropped the guy.
PackerAaron
October 03, 2010 at 10:43 pm
What good are 12 tackles when they're all 5 to 10 yards down the field? And he caught a ball thrown right to him after the receiver fell down. Lets throw a parade. His "blitzing" is beyond terrible and he is absolutely lost in space
October 03, 2010 at 10:58 pm
Please tell me why Barnett has fewer tackles than Hawk, has made just as little impact as far as "blitzing," has the same knack for tackling 4 or 5 yards down the field, and yet avoids your ire? Just ridiculous. You can see the flaws in ANYONE'S game if you look at it with as jaded an eye as most people do with Hawk.
PackerAaron
October 03, 2010 at 11:03 pm
Who's got "Ire" here? I just said he had a bad game. Wow. And again, please, find me the post where I reveal my "hate" of Hawk? What's that? You can't? Oh...that's right. Because it doesn't exist. I have been more than fair, calling him out when he deserves it and giving him praise when he plays well. You want to point at number of tackles and people want to talk about how they thought he played well - just because you show up on the stat sheet and are in camera frame does not mean you played well...
October 03, 2010 at 11:14 pm
I wasn't saying you in particular, Aaron. But there is a lot of hate amongst fans for AJ Hawk, and it's unwarranted. And putting him in the bad in THIS game is just ridiculous. A tackle is a tackle. You can justify it all you want by saying it came 4 or 5 yards downfield or whatever, but guess what? On those plays where Hawk made a tackle 5 yards downfield, there were 10 other guys on the field who didn't make the tackle sooner. I know it's an oversimplification, but making tackles is the man's job. I guarantee you that when the coaches grade him out for this game, he grades out well. That's what really matters. The fact that people love to pile on AJ when he plays pretty well and Bishop plays like a bucket of mashed up asshole is just baffling to me.
October 04, 2010 at 03:18 am
Dear PackSmack25,
Hawk was the 5th pick overall in 2006 and Bishop was the 192nd pick overall in 2007.
There is your answer.
Hugs,
Keith
October 04, 2010 at 10:02 am
A tackle is not a tackle. A tackle after a gain of two yards on a 3rd and 3 is MUCH better than a tackle after a gain of four yards.
The difference between Barnett and Hawk is that Barnett actually goes after the ball carrier whereas Hawk is tentative when the ball carrier is in front of him. When you are looking to tackle someone you can't stand there waiting for them to make the decision about where to go. You need to play aggressive and force them to make a quick decision. If you are a good tackler (which Hawk can be) it helps you to bring down the ball carrier for minimal gain.
Really, Hawk's problem is aggressiveness...he doesn't have that killer instinct.
October 04, 2010 at 01:03 pm
"What’s that? You can’t? Oh…that’s right. Because it doesn’t exist."
The mistery is solved! Aaron Nagler is Marmalard.
http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2010/07/watch-me-play-southern-dumb-...
"What? Huh? What? @#$ YOU!"
October 04, 2010 at 10:27 pm
it's because everyone expected him to be a superstar and can't except the fact that he is just a solid player, and not a game changer
October 03, 2010 at 11:08 pm
Barnett had a decent year last, this year I would say his play is dropping off, yes closer to Hawk's performance.
October 04, 2010 at 09:57 am
Jaded view, no -- more like 20/20 vision.
Hawk has poor lateral movement -- he's unable to respond to an opponent and not in a position to tackle. Since he waits for the offense to come to him, he usually gets juked and caught flat-footed -- often bending sideways at the waist.
His blitzing is atrocious. He runs into the back of DL, or tries to fight/block a OL. He needs to play more like CM3, and dip the shoulder, go to the most open gap and defeat the OL in space, where the OL has to hold, or let him go.
Much the same with Barnett -- not the same player after the ACL. Sadly, this is when he's paid the most while delivering the least.
October 03, 2010 at 11:04 pm
I have been saying this for 2 years now, Hawk will make the tackle after a 5+ yard pickup.
As long as the sticks are moving Hawks stats keeping improving.
To say Hawk had a good game you really didn't watch the game, or in-particular watch Hawk play.
October 04, 2010 at 08:53 am
It has as much to do with the coaching as the player.
This is how the ILB's are apparently taught to respond in the packages they put out on the field.
MM and Dom decided to concede the 'dump pass' to the Lions in order to avoid the big plays of Calvin Johnson or Jahvid Best.
Classic PREVENT the win DEFENSE!
October 04, 2010 at 02:05 pm
his blitzing is atrocious?.. does he make sacks no.. but when he blitzes he frees up other people to make the sack.. i didnt notice that this game.. but the past few weeks most of the sacks come when aj hawk blitzes and makes a lineman deal with him freeing up another rusher... and hawk doesnt always make the tackle 5 yards down field... does it happen often? yes... but hawk stops nd waits because he doesnt want to get burned and if he makes hte runningback hesitate someone else can make a play... he is a contributor not a big play guy always has been always will be.. does he make tackles 3-5 yrds downfield? yes.. does almost eveyr other linebacker including nick barnett do exactly the same.. yeah...
and hawk did not play bad in coverage yesterday.. for being so atrocious at coverage... dont understand why he is in the bad
October 03, 2010 at 10:42 pm
i actually thought hawk had a pretty good game. jeez, tough crowd.....
October 03, 2010 at 10:54 pm
I was at the game, my first trip to lambeau and it was awesome. I have to say yes Hawk was not that great. Numbers are not always a good indicator of performance, or you have to know how to read them. For example Woodson led the team in tackles, usually not good when a db leads your defense in tackles. It means guys are getting to the secondary. Also most if not all of Hawks tackles were after the guy picked up 4+ yards. Tackles for LBs and DL are only good if they are 2 yards or less into negative yardage.
October 03, 2010 at 11:13 pm
Hawk had a lot of tackles because he gave his check down responsibility 7 yard cushions play after play after play.
October 04, 2010 at 01:49 pm
and Woodson had a lot of tackles because Megatron was open all day.
October 03, 2010 at 11:37 pm
I was at the game (no TV or radio announcer bias) and will vouch for the opinion that Hawk had a terrible game. He gets blown off the line, looks like he is running in quicksand, attempts to rush the passer only to have the QB throw the ball to a RB/TE in the space he just vacated, and makes the tackle 7 yard downfield (if he doesn't whiff). Seriously bad. We really need Brandon Chillar back healthy, soon.
October 04, 2010 at 02:38 am
"He gets blown off the line, looks like he is running in quicksand, attempts to rush the passer only to have the QB throw the ball to a RB/TE in the space he just vacated, and makes the tackle 7 yard downfield (if he doesn’t whiff)."
That's the Hawk I saw/see. Sucks, I was so stoked when we drafted him. BUT, the facts are the facts. He's just a dude. He's a serviceable starter at this level, yet he will never make any WOW/game changing plays. The guy looks slow. 1/2 step late on making the big plays. Consistently.
October 03, 2010 at 11:50 pm
UPON FURTHER REVIEW
THE BEARS STILL SUCK
October 04, 2010 at 02:44 am
I've ran my Calc's and have come to the same conclusion on 'duh bares' suckocity. What a shitfest tonight. The North doesn't appear to be as strong as I once thought, which is a good thing for the GBP.
By the way, I saw you pitch in County Stadium, the 'Bash Brothers' went back to back on the 'Brew Crew'. Can't remember who won, pretty sure it wasn't us... I should look into that.
October 04, 2010 at 11:44 am
Cutler sacked 9 time and knocked out of the game by the Giants.....nice
October 04, 2010 at 05:35 am
I put Bishop in the bad or ugly, and Hawk had a good game. He MADE the INT, and my math says that 3-7 points it prevented is the difference in the game. Without a replay to watch, it looked like Bishop was guilty on more than one occasion of leaving a pass coverage assignment to rush passer ineffectively. Then that TE/RB goes for 20 yards. I dont know the defensive calls, but somebody has to make tackles and cover people and Hawk looked like he did that.
Jennings had a awful game, please run better routes against these young NFCN corners you should own.
I liked the running game, because it was enough to keep the Lions out of the win column. The passing game was crap in the second half, and a 10 play drive with 8 rushes deflated the Lions.
The Lions have a really talented team, they look better than the Bears on O, and only a really good backer or DB away from a solid D.
October 04, 2010 at 07:37 am
The only reason Hawk got the INT was because Jahvid Best slipped and fell down when he made his cut to the inside. Hawk just got lucky - Best makes that cut, he'll catch the ball and run away from AJ. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile...
October 04, 2010 at 02:16 pm
okay... the only reason chillar has an INT in his career is because the ball got tipped and he caught it... EVERYONE WAS SOOO EXCITED ABUT IT AND IT WAS SUCH A GREAT PLAY.. first INT of his career
hawk actually has 5 or 6 INTs in his career.... nd if best made the cut hawk would have tackled him after he made the catch.. he had good positioning on the play and was good in coverage overall...
who cares if best fell.. woodson got the pick cause the lions qb threw it to the wrong side... odnt hear anyone saying oh well if the WR had broke the other way woodson would have gotten burned
October 04, 2010 at 05:48 am
Well the Defense in all might deserve an Ugly.
October 04, 2010 at 01:11 pm
To their fairness, the O didn't score a single point in the second half, so...
October 04, 2010 at 02:13 pm
thats actually becoming a trend... we sscore all our points in 1 half of the game.. whether its the first or 2nd half... and then we see if the other team can catch up
October 04, 2010 at 06:01 am
Kuhn is getting better. May not be a home run threat but he just keeps moving the chains. If Starks or Nance show anything Jackson is toast.
October 04, 2010 at 10:08 am
Agreed. I don't think it's a bad thing, that Kuhn can't "take it to the house", as I read somewhere. Slow, grind-it-out, eat-the-clock, beat down the opponent's defense, rest-up our defense -- is just what we need.
But, please -- (Kuhn) don't run laterally.
BJAX either can't see holes close, or open -- or he's trying to run the "chalkboard" play. Take away his long run, he has 19yds on 8 carries. UGH !
October 04, 2010 at 08:44 am
Negative Nagler,
"What is wrong with Charles Woodson?"
LOL!!! Oops!
PackerAaron
October 04, 2010 at 10:35 am
I'm going to pretend that I provided Woodson with the motivation needed to have his best game of the year. ;)
October 04, 2010 at 08:44 am
Is it possible that Hawk is being coached to play this way, or does he just lack the confidence to knife in and make the tackle? Any new news on Burnett? You want ugly? How about that Bears O-line. The Bears 3rd-string QB should have been given a bonus for daring to step onto the field. And why didn't Capers find a way to exploit it last Monday night? Maybe Nagler should go back and amend last week's Good/Bad/Ugly and put Capers in the Ugly category.
October 04, 2010 at 08:48 am
Ugly = 3 man rush..
October 04, 2010 at 10:27 am
Is Burnett done for the year? Or a while?
PackerAaron
October 04, 2010 at 10:30 am
No official word yet. Should know more when McCarthy speaks later today.
October 04, 2010 at 10:49 am
So much for preseason hype... never thought I'd see an article titled like this after a Lion's game in 2010 at Lambeau field !
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"Lions -Outgain Packers- By 170 Yards ... But Lose, 28-26"
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Thanks goodness for 13 Detroit penalties, mutltiple turnovers, falling down receivers, and a GB defensive score .... otherwise a loss to Lions at home not since 1992 ! Woe.
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October 04, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Aaron...time to re-title this section, "The Woodson, The Bad, and The Ugly."
October 04, 2010 at 02:11 pm
really? i understand a pick 6 is a great thing to have... and is rare... but come on
October 04, 2010 at 01:00 pm
Ugly = Capers
This was the same defense that brought the Queenies, Tampa, Cards, Steelers and Bengals in 09'. Detroit watched the films and showed everyone else how to play the game. This needs to be fixed NOW!
T. Williams is playing at a very high level.
October 04, 2010 at 01:10 pm
I thought, for the first time, that Hawk had a good game... Agreed on the rest...
October 04, 2010 at 02:09 pm
i completly disagree with hawk being on the bad.. he played a solid game.. he played the way he is supposed to play.. he didnt blitz real well but the past few weeks he has done a good job of that.. 1 game he doenst blitz good everyone is like HIS BLITZING IT TERRIBLE.. chill.. matthews didnt get a sack lasst week... must mean he sucks right?.. no..
hawk did well in coverage.. when his responsibility made a catch he was right there to tackle him... hawk is a tackler.. eveyr team has one like him.. i dunno why all the angst against him.. he makes the running back hesitate by waitin for him to make a move.. lettin other players come in to make the play. he didnt make a lot of tackles for 1 yard gains.. but had a very solid game.. jsut like he has the past 3 weeks.. stop hating
October 04, 2010 at 02:20 pm
it also makes me amd that people are tryin to take hawks pick away from him.. give the man some credit.. he was in position to make the play and he made it...
woodson could have ended up giving up a giant play if the qb didnt throw the pass to the rong side of his WR... instead woodson got a pick and returned it...
you cant play the ifs and buts game... hawk got a pick.. give him his credit adn take him off the bad cause he didnt play terrible... if u want him to make tackles for no gain tell the rest of the team to get in there and stop them too.. hawk had 12 tackles.. whether they were down the field or not thats a lot.. jeessusssss
October 04, 2010 at 02:25 pm
I only caught the second half of yesterday's game, but what has been troubling me of late is our big guys on the d-line...where is Pickett, Raji, Jenkins??? I know we've been using our LBs to bring pressure and using the fatties to plug gaps, but still.
Again and again yesterday, I watched Shaun Hill sit in this cushy pocket with very little pressure coming at him from any direction. At some point our fatties need to blow up a play and create some mf'ing havoc.
I'm starting to wonder if the Pickett/Raji switch was the best move after all.
October 04, 2010 at 02:37 pm
Nagler is absolutely right about Hawk. And, he likely knew the grief you Hawk trolls would give him, but told the truth about Hawk, anyway. Finally.
Hawk is soft as the muck on the bottom of a catfish pond. Plays not to get hurt and without passion. Can't count the number of times Hawk was standing around while others made hits/tackles yesterday. And, his "pass rush" abilities are laughable.
October 04, 2010 at 03:16 pm
On Hawk's interception, it looked like he was sitting back in a zone, making his usual slow-footed reaction to the play. If Best doesn't fall, I'm pretty sure he catches it right in front of Hawk and gets the first before Hawk brings him down. Hawk only got that pick because he was sitting back on his heels, not up challening Best at the point of the catch.
One thing above all else stands out with Hawk - he is SLOW.
October 04, 2010 at 10:00 pm
1 hawks 40 is actually a second or 2 faster than chillar when they came out of the combine...
so that is false..
and if u give woodson credit for his pick u gotta give hawk credit for his
October 04, 2010 at 04:00 pm
You still have to give credit to Hawk if you give credit to Woodson. It was basically the same type of interception. They were both at the right spot at the right time, and if the receiver had caught the ball in front of either one he would have gone for a first down.
I am high on Tramon Williams as Aaron Nagler. The guy plays at a very high level this year. Actually opponents stay away from him on most throws and rather pick on Woodson, which is amazing in itself. Plus he gets me an OK feelng when he is back there returning punts. Calms my nerves ;-)
I still think "The Bad" should go to the offensive game plan i.e. McCarthy. Totally abandoning the run at the beginning of the 2nd half was a mistake. The few times they tried a draw or pitch, they got like 7-10 yards. That doesn't say much as they only tried 2 or so until that last drive. I still think they should get Jackson more involved with draw, pitches to the outside and ... wait for it .. screens!! Why is the screen game not a part of the Packers offense anymore? *sigh*
October 04, 2010 at 04:55 pm
Has anyone heard any more about Arog trashing the offense that was palyed yesterday? I heard after the game he was really po'd.
I choose to look at this seson this way - Last year they were 2-2 at this point and playing like shit. If they can make the halfway point at 6-2 they will end the year at 14 - 2 or 13 - 3 no problem.
That is if they can figure out how to prevent the other team from throwing underneath racking up hundreds of yards and dominating clock control.