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Packers: 26 Vikings: 26

By Category

Packers: 26 Vikings: 26

Eddie Lacy, C.J. Wilson, Josh Sitton

The Bad

The Bad

Morgan Burnett, M.D. Jennings, B.J. Raji

The Bad

The Bad

Marshall Newhouse

BrokenTV

BrokenTV

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Fan friendly comments only: on Comments (85) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

RC Packer Fan's picture

Pretty sad when both your starting Safety's are in the bad category...

Time for a change. Bench Jennings and either start Richardson or Banjo.

Tommy's picture

I would have given Mike McCarthy "Ugly."

jmac34's picture

Putting in Flynn was a great move and I have a hard time faulting him for starting Tolzien considering Flynn had just come back Tolzien had been playing decent outside of the picks

Derek in CO's picture

If I'm calling plays, I take four shots to the end zone in OT and not settle for the FG.

Evan's picture

4 shots into the end zone is idiotic. 3, sure. But no way you pass up the field goal in OT.

Derek in CO's picture

Pin the vikings at their own 2, yes, I would have. This team has no stomp on your neck killer instinct.

Evan's picture

With how they'd been gashing runs at 10 yards a pop? They would have been in FG range in no time.

jmac34's picture

you would be killing mccarthy if he had failed on 4th down and watched the vikes march down the field and win the game

Idiot Fan's picture

jmac, people here kill McCarthy week in and week out regardless of what he does.

The TKstinator's picture

Call me an offensive guru, but, for every play call that worked I would have called the same.
Every single one that didn't: I would have called something different.
And it would have worked.

TKstiPackers 87, Minnesota 0.

RC Packer Fan's picture

I take at least 2 shots in the endzone there.. I was ok with the first run, but not the 2nd on 2nd down. Your only giving your backup QB 1 chance for a throw in the endzone. I didn't like the 2nd down call.

Evan's picture

I also didn't like the 3rd down fade call either.

Derek in CO's picture

at a minimum I line up jumbo with double TEs and run a play fake. Just like Carolina did to win their game. WE don't do that anymore without Finley it seems.

RC Packer Fan's picture

Yeah, I didn't like the fade pass on 3rd down. 2nd down ok, you still have a shot, but not 3rd down, IMO.

I don't get that either. When is the last time they have ran that play action with 2 TE's? 2nd down would have been a good time to run that play. I just didn't like the 2nd down play call at all...

Another one, is if they are going to do a fade, why not do it with Boykin? He has a tremendous catching radius, and he seems to be able to make those types of plays with ease.

Idiot Fan's picture

RC, I would argue that Jordy's catch radius is greater than Boykins. I didn't love the call either, but mostly because it was Flynn and not Rodgers, not because it was Jordy.

RC Packer Fan's picture

yeah Idiot, I agree with you on Jordy.
I'm just thinking that Jordy will command the better defender then what Boykin would. That is kind of my thinking on that... I think Boykin would probably have a better chance against the defenses number 3 CB then Nelson would against the number 1.

themasterfake's picture

spread them out 4 wide and hand to Lacy three times..no jumbo...keep em thin and lacy wins

Ryan's picture

This is what I wanted too. Where were we, the 4? There's no way we don't average 1 yard per carry on four straight tries with Lacy. I like going for the win right there, even though we had been moving the ball and Minnesota hadn't.

That 3rd down throw doesn't leave any room for error and there is no second option.

Michael from Winnipeg's picture

The Bad:
Batted passes by our QBs. I think we are averaging 4 a game. Isnt that a little absurd?

Norman's picture

I noticed that myself, and if memory serves I believe we even lost the Bengals game when ARod had a fourth down pass knocked down at the line of scrimmage on the final drive. I don't see our defenders knocking down near as many passes as the opposition, although that used to be Jolly's specialty in his first incarnation with the team.

That is extremely frustrating to watch!

jmac34's picture

man marshall newhouse is so bad that he makes me miss Don Barclay.

Crefan's picture

When does Sherrod get a shot he couldn't be any worse then what we have now.

Morgan Mundane's picture

If Newhouse, Sherrod, Barclay, Tretter et al are considered quality football players, then the person who evaluates talent for this team is on qualudes or LSD.

RC Packer Fan's picture

Tretter practices 1 time and breaks his ankle, and he now is considered a horrible player?

Sherrod goes into his first NFL season, no offseason practices (NFL lockout). Gets to training camp, they have him practicing 2 positions. He starts to settle in at LT, comes in to play, and breaks his leg (devastating injury) and 2 years is finally able to come back from it. He is now considered a bad pick?

Barclay was an undrafted free agent, and has started however many games and is considered a bad pickup?

Newhouse, yeah he sucks. But the talent evaluator is just fine.

Mel's picture

MM is never one to give up on a player for anything. I was suprised he pulled Tolzien. Think training camp. Newhouse and Barclay were in the battle even though everyone could see that Bearclay clearly was out playing Newhouse. Then need to sit Newhouse. If tretter didn't break his ankle to start season I don't think he is playing in the NFL..

Bearmeat's picture

This sucks. I can't remember a more frustrating season since... oh... 2008.

Bearmeat's picture

I don't know how the two are related Aaron. I simply stated the season as a whole has been beyond frustrating...

Evan's picture

I feel like that was meant as a reply to me.

packeraaron's picture

Not for you Bearmeat. My bad.

UP-Packer's picture

Everyone in the room with me (at the time) agreed with the 'go for it' approach. Mac played to 'not lose' instead of playing 'to win'. --- That's why the game ended up tied. Too bad, a tie will either win the North or lose the North.

Cow42's picture

Nagler-

Nice article.

My guess is that the stats-geek who organized all those numbers hasn't watched the Packers' defense play this season.

Can anyone out there in Packer blogville honestly say they think the defense would have prevented the Vikings' offense from moving the ball 63 yards?

Before you answer - remember the game vs. Cincy and how easily the Bengals went 90 something yards for a TD during a crucial point in the game, or the end of the Bears' game, or the end of the Eagles' game, or the drive that the Vikings started on their own 2 earlier in the game (which ended in a chip-shot field goal), or the drive the Vikings put together that ended up tying the game (did they even pass?).

There is like a 1% chance that this Packer defense would have Risen up and forced a punt. After the emotional let-down of not getting into the endzone? Stop it.

Not to mention - imagine the boring/predictable play that MM would ave called... my guess is a fade attempt to Nelson or a backshoulder attempt to Jones... both very difficult throws to make for a QB who has not been working on timing with his receivers.

FG was the right call in my opinion.

Derek in CO's picture

Vikings don't even get the ball if you score a TD there.

Evan's picture

I'd kindly ask you to stop agreeing with me so often today.

(Meant as a reply to cow...I think Nagler screwed up the reply function.)

Ho Li Fuk's picture

One of the problems, the big three are dead by the third period. Pickett, Raji and Jolly (yes he did not play) looked gased by then. Not to mention all teams weve played of recent are running wide and having and success doing it so in a way, we have three players neutralized on running plays and only 8 people to stop the run, 4 of which are on the other side of the field. I rest my case.

themasterfake's picture

Perry, Jolly SHields ..that's three big components to your defense

Jamie's picture

I'd say 2010 was similarly frustrating. We lost to the Bucs and the Skins (at home), a ton of injuries, and Rodgers missed all or most of two winnable games. And it's similarly been a season of ups and downs from the defense.

Cow42's picture

it was the 'Phins not the Bucs... and the defense was NEVER this shitty.

Idiot Fan's picture

That's probably true, but I do remember watching that Dolphin game and thinking, "we just have no answer in the secondary for Brandon Marshall."

Scott's picture

The D was nearly has crappy, but was getting turnovers which made up for a lot of the yardage given up. That isn't happening this year.

UP-Packer's picture

Automatic 'bad' for being benched for piss-poor play. The Pack need to 'beam' Scotty back to the PS as soon as AR is good to go.

Funny how Tolzien was going to save the season. Now Matty is going to save the season. Somehow, fans need to wait for AR & hope it's not too late.

Cow42's picture

Can Turdzien go on the practice squad still? Hasn't he played too much?

RC Packer Fan's picture

Tolzien is now ineligible for the Practice Squad.

Cow42's picture

That's what I thought.

Pack's gonna have to cary 3 QB's or cut Turdzien.

Cut him.

RC Packer Fan's picture

I really have a hard time seeing them carrying 3 QB's on the 53. Although after this years mess, they might going forward.

Either way, an offseason to learn the offense will help Tolzien a lot. Not to mention going through training camp and preseason...

Morgan Mundane's picture

He kept trying to beat Rhodes all day long and Rhodes had our receivers covered all day like a blanket. There is a saying about someone who does the exact same thing over and over again and expects a different result each time. Its called STUPID

Obviously the kid ain't no rocket scientist

UP-Packer's picture

Based on?? --- Maybe Evan has a more definitive answer.

Evan's picture

About Tolzien's PS eligibility? Sorry, that's above my pay grade.

Ma Linger's picture

Do we want him too? He cannot be a permanent solution to our team. His arms are smaller than a ten year olds. He was cut because he can't throw more than 25 yards and his eyes are fixated on one guy whether that guy is covered or not.

4thand1's picture

So the bombs he threw against the Giants were all wind related?

Big Al's picture

Or if Flynn does have a problem with his elbow put him on IR when rodgers comes back and get the tendon operated on so he is 100% for training camp

RC Packer Fan's picture

For me, I would like to add McCarthy's inability to find ways to use the RB's more in the passing game to the Bad category.

Once they figured out they can throw passes to Lacy and he was gaining big chunks of yards, the defense started sending a guy with him in the flat, which in turn opened up the middle of the field more... Perhaps the coaches can figure this out and exploit other defenses now.

Ohhh yeah, and how about a freaking screen pass?

Mr Smith's picture

Yes, yes, and yes. I'm miffed by the lack of RB involvement in the passing game. MM needs to scrap this run n shoot junk and get some west coast action back in the fold. We saw how well it worked like you mentioned. Lacy in the flat was a godsend for Flynn.

RC Packer Fan's picture

Just like last week, Franklin only played 2 plays, but on one of those plays he went out for a swing pass, and it pulled a CB off of Nelson, which in turn got Nelson wide open for a nice 20+ yard catch.

I just get so tired of how the coaches (McCarthy) can't seem to figure out how to use the RB's in the passing game.

If you noticed when Lacy started having success catching passes in the flat it drew attention of other defenders. Which, now its time to figure that out and exploit that...

I really wish they would learn how to attack defenses using the entire field, not just certain areas. Using RB's in the passing game and having success doing so, can really start opening up plays downfield.
It's time coaches figure that out...

Evan's picture

Franklin played an offensive snap? I thought he went out with a concussion after the kick off.

RC Packer Fan's picture

I meant last week, against the Giants...

Stroh's picture

I just get so F'in tired of you acting like you know more about play calling than NFL HC's!

RC Packer Fan's picture

First off when have I ever said that I know more then coaches?

Second, if you like what I post then don't read what I post if you have a problem with it.

I post what I want just like you do.

I don't come attacking you every time you post something.

This is something to me that has been lacking in the offensive attack especially when we are using our back up QB's.

I have no problem with the play calling. I just wish they would utilize their talent to their ability's more. And try to create more mismatches and do more schematically to get guys open.

The only play call in the game against the vikings I didn't like was in OT, when they they were down at the 4 yard line. The 2nd down run, I wish was a pass. With backup QB's playing, they need more then 1 throw in the endzone.

themasterfake's picture

it was a new phenomena to see linebackers sprinting out of the middle following Lacy to the flat. Agreed, this should be a big problem for defenses...especially since Lacy can bust for twenty on a run at any time as well. He is fantastic! Now how to exploit that....

RC Packer Fan's picture

That's exactly it. If they can start attacking defenses all over the field it will open up other areas of the field.
Linebackers trailing RB's will open the middle of the field. Same if a Safety comes down to cover the RB. Or if a CB comes off his player to take the RB, then that will leave the WR on a safety.

I just can't figure out why its taken them this long to figure that out. And they still haven't completely figured it out yet.

al katraz's picture

There is so much dead wood on this team that realistically it will take three or four drafts to replace them. and were talking first and second picks, not another slew of Ted's "developmental" players he finds in the late 5th, 6th, 7th and those wonderful undrafteds as well.

I once thought the injury issue was the training staff but now realize the commonality is these guys were injury prone in college, played for smaller schools, lack size, strength, speed and do not have the work ethics of div one counterparts from top teams.
I mean Franklin played div I but the guy is like 5'9 and 185 pounds ringing wet. He ain't running over anyone in the NFL that's for sure. He was passed over by other teams except us. He was fourth round cheap and available.

RC Packer Fan's picture

So by that theory, Bakhtiari was a wasted pick as well, since he was a 4th round pick and everyone passed on him except for us?

I guess Darren Sproles was a wasted pick as well.. 5'6 187 lbs of him. Oh yeah, he was a 4th round draft pick by the Chargers. I guess guys that are little don't deserve to be drafted.

Oh yeah, and Franklin is listed as 5'10 205 lbs...

Yeah, right now the team's record isn't reflecting of the 1st and 2nd round picks that are injured. Rodgers, Mathews, Cobb, Perry, Worthy, Hayward, Bulaga, Sherrod, and whoever else is hurt.

themasterfake's picture

Right Arm RC. Right Arm! Ridiculous to whine about all the injuries and blame or even want to fire our coach? Stupid.

Two areas are worthy o criticism...(which ain't bad for an NFL team) A legit back up QB in camp, and, I admit, the safety situation is another area, where the geniuses on CHTV were right.

Morgan Mundane's picture

Dom Capers game plan for Tolzien, hey were gonna pick on that new rookie Rhodes all day long. He will be our scapegoat. Ya well that rookie covered so close I swear he was in the pants of our receivers at times.

Noticed too for a rookie not only could he cover like a blanket, he could tackle, play physical football and was in position to make plays.

Funny the Vikes have another guy like that who was injured so they have two very very talented newbies on this team.

My question, are these guys developmental projects like we have. Seems our developmental guys who have played two three years now haven't quite developed yet?

Could it be the Vikes two guys were top first round picks and our guys were 4,5,6,7 and undrafteds. Gee how is that working for us.

Idiot Fan's picture

The Vikings are 2-8-1. How's that working for them?

Cow42's picture

And the Packers couldn't beat them... at home.

Wow.

themasterfake's picture

the Packers could not be defeated by them. WOW (spelled backwards)

Cow42's picture

tying a 2-8 team at home with your season on the line constitutes a loss in my book.

Idiot Fan's picture

Yes, they should have been able to beat them at home (although the Vikings did hang tough with Seattle in Seattle last week until the very end; they've been playing better as of late). But if you had told me before the year started that we would play them sans Rodgers, Cobb, Finley, Bulaga, Barclay, Shields, Hayward, and Perry, then I - and especially you - would have expected them to lose by about 50.

Ma Linger's picture

So after we play miraculously and get the ball on the 11 yard line, first down, game in hand, season at stake, we again play the run Lacy left, run lacy right, ok lets try a pass play now and wow, we gained all of three yards and its field goal time. Where in the F did MM think he had to smarts to call plays and develop a game plan. Time for an offensive coordinator who knows football on this team.
Ya MM proved to the world that the Pack finally has a running game but the passing game went to hell in the process.

Stroh's picture

The passing game went to hell when Rodgers went down. Pure and simple... McCarthy's game plan has nothing to do w/ it. He's limited as a playcaller due to Tolzien being completely inexperienced and Flynn just getting to town about a week ago!

Morgan Mundane's picture

Ya Lacy got 122 but only after 5 quarters of play on what 27 carries. Gerhart got 98 on 8 carries in less than one quarter.

4thand1's picture

This defense looks tired. New guys in and out, mistakes , playing with different line-ups every week. Not to mention they are under pressure because Rodgers is out. Mentally they look unprepared. Players have been in position to plays but haven't. Everyone bitched about MM not having a running game, then he switched the o-line and Bulaga went down, and they got a steal in the draft at RT. They change the run game and have a great rushing attack but people are still pissing and moaning. Backs aren't getting enough passes, WTF! The next man up only goes so far. You can't take pro bowl caliber players out of the line and keep winning. Quit whining you spoiled bastards.

Stroh's picture

Couldn't agree more. So freaking sick of arm chair HC's who think they know the game better than the real HC! They bitch about whatever doesn't work, no matter what the play call is. Never mind that each play call is designed for down and distance and that the play calling is limited by inexperienced Tolzien and Flynn showing up a week ago!

Its F'in annoying as HELL!!

Cow42's picture

Not complaining about play selections.
I'm just pissed that the Packers suck and that another Rodgers-year is wasted.

There's always something with this damned team.

If it's not the injuries it's the run blocking, if it's not the run blocking it's the pass blocking, if it's not the pass blocking it's the pass defense, if it's not the pass defense it's the run defense, if it's not the run defense it's the pass rush, if it's not the pass rush it's the special teams.

WHY DO THEY ALWAYS HAVE TO HAVE A CRIPPLING ISSUE OF SOME SORT? JUST BE AVERAGE/ABOVE AVERAGE IN ALL AREAS. THEY ALWAYS HAVE THAT ONE GLARING SOFT SPOT THAT PREVENTS THE ENTIRE TEAM FROM THRIVING!

CLEAN SHIT UP!

Stroh's picture

Every team has issues. You just don't pay attention to other teams to notice or in the case of the 9ers you gloss over them!

The TKstinator's picture

Check out my post from above regarding play selection. You will love it, while others on here will agree with it cuz they think that way for real.

WiscoKid's picture

We are incredibly spoiled with Rodgers ...I agree with Cow - it sucks to waste these years. That's the most heart-breaking thing of all. I still have a glimmer of hope though...hopefully it won't be destroyed in Detroit. I'll be there praying to Vince and Reggie.

RC Packer Fan's picture

I am one that is complaining that the RB's aren't getting more opportunity's in the passing game.
But that is because that is another way to attack a defense, which they haven't been doing.

Just look at what happened when they ran Franklin out for a swing pass against the Giants. The CB came off of Nelson and he got open for 20+ yard completion.
Last week Lacy got into the flat a number of times and had some nice gains. What that did was it made the LB's, CB's or S's have to come out of their coverage area's to come up and cover the RB.
What that does is creates an opening in the defense. Its something that hasn't happened in a very long time.

The last couple of years the RB's primarily responsibility is to block on passing plays. Well that means there is 1 less receiver on the play, and it allows the defense to cover everyone else.

To me they need to use the RB's more in the passing game because it stretches the defense more and will create openings down field.

Bart's picture

Can Sherrod really be a worse choice than Newhouse? I sure hope not. $8MM for Raji? How about $4MM with the provision that he only play 8 games since he only shows up about half the time anyway. Our safeties just aren't any good. Burnett hasn't been near as good as we thought and seems to be regressing rapidly. The other guys are just "other guys".

Wenis's picture

Your big 3 will continue to gas as long as McCarthy keeps playing "martyball". For whatever reason MM has taken 10 steps backwards with no end in sight.

Ruppert's picture

Do you mean Schottenheimer or Mornhinweg?

Actually, you'd be at least partially right on both accounts.

Ruppert's picture

In his first couple years, I ripped on McCarthy because I believed he sometimes did stupid things for the sake of seeming unpredictable.

The 3rd down fade in OT falls into that category, IMO. How many of those has Flynn thrown recently? I think that is very, very low percentage, but MM was convinced they wouldn't see it coming and that's why he let fly with it.

If you're going to give Lacy the ball on 1st and 2nd down right there, give it to him again on 3rd down. Of course that's predictable, though. Of course you give it to the guy who broke 10 tackles that day and take the pressure off a QB who was home eating shrimp dip a couple weeks ago. They would see that coming. Right now there is more benefit to the team if they can succeed in something everyone saw coming, IMO.

What's ugly is the personnel we trot out at TE, ILB and Safety. Bostick has an undetermined amount of potential, but that's the high point of that personnel group. Safety? Do I need to detail that mess? Burnett is going backwards and he is the highlight at that position.

But what I cannot stand are the LBs, particularly ILBs. The 34 needs a bunch of hungry LBs to be successful. Aside from 52, the highlights of the OLB group are Mike Neal and Nick Perry's two games a year where he's healthy. That ain't cool. Hawk stays healthy and that's the ILB highlight.

And did we really give a contract extension to Brad Jones? Honestly, what does he bring to the table that an average free agent ILB doesn't? Maybe we need to stop looking for LBs who score a 30 on the Wonderlic and start looking for guys who are just plain ugly and nasty.

Stroh's picture

Re: Brad Jones. He is an average ILB and when the Packers signed him he WAS a FA. Doesn't that make him precisely an average FA ILB?! Compare his salary around the league and I'll be willing to bet its right in line w/ what other average FA ILB were available are making.

Ruppert's picture

Sorry, we let his contract expire before we wasted money on him. My bad. That doesn't make the signing/re-signing a better decision. He is average at best.

And I'm getting to where I would rather see a new face be average than see an old face remain average year after year. Maybe the entire crop of cheap FA LBs was poor at the time. That's a distinct possibility.

We need more talent at the ILB position. That's really the point.

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