NFL Opener Could Be A Referendum On Player-Led Workouts

The Saints have been far-and-away the most active team when it comes to player-led workouts. The Packers have been just the opposite. Will it show on September 8th?

When (sigh...ok...if) the New Orleans Saints end up facing the Green Bay Packers in the NFL's 2011 season opener on September 8th, the two previous Super Bowl champions will be on display. Two teams that feature offensive-masterminds at head coach and elite, veteran quarterbacks who know their respective offenses like the backs of their hands will face off in prime-time at Lambeau Field.

There will also be one major difference between the two teams - namely, how each approached the down time presented to them during the NFL's lockout.

The Saints, coming off an embarrassing playoff loss to the Seattle Seahawks, have far and away been the most active of the teams whose players have chosen to gather on their own during the ongoing labor dispute between the NFL and the former players union. From the Bengals, to the Patriots to the Seahawks, Lions and 49ers, team after team has started to gather in groups of sometimes 40 or more to have some kind of football-related workout in a group setting.

The Packers, coming off a Super Bowl victory, are one of a dwindling number of teams who have yet to hold some kind of player-led workout for the majority of the team. (Center Scott Wells and left tackle Chad Clifton, along with right tackle Mark Tauscher, organized a three day workout in Tennessee for members of the offensive line last week.) Quarterback Aaron Rodgers has mentioned that getting many of the players together would be "difficult."  Linebacker A.J. Hawk, when asked about the possibility of a player-led workout for Packers players, offered the following:

I've heard that different guys' workouts from different teams have just been a disaster. They're working out at bad high school fields and equipment and all that kind of stuff. ...the player gatherings are a good thing to get together and be with your teammates - that's the most I would take from it

Contrast that with the words of Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma:

Players around the league look at the lockout differently. Some see the lockout as a time to relax. Some see it as a time to heal from serious injury. Some see it as a time to party. We're definitely not in that last category. I feel pretty comfortable saying that almost every player on the Saints is in terrific shape. We could take the practice field tomorrow in full pads and be fine. This group of guys is in better shape than we were at this time when the Saints won the Super Bowl.

The loss of what amounts to an entire NFL offseason should not be as problematic for the Packers as it will be for the Saints, at least in regards to assembling their respective teams once the labor dispute is settled. The Packers, as a team, are pretty much set. The Saints, on the other hand, depending on which set of rules the NFL ends up playing under in 2011, could have as many as up to 31 players set to hit free agency.  The shaping of the Saints roster will no doubt take place in whatever frenetic period ends up acting as the NFL's annual shopping spree for general managers.

But the Packers won't be completely bereft of free agency issues. The likely departure of James Jones (again, depending on which rules are in place), an integral part in McCarthy's multiple wide receiver sets, would most likely mean an increased role for Jordy Nelson and a greater involvement for rookie Randall Cobb - who has not so much as looked at a playbook let alone gone through any kind of the normal offseason offensive installation process Packer rookies would typically be exposed to.

Offenses traditionally start slower than their defensive counterparts. That problem, especially for two teams that are pretty much defined by their offenses, could be exacerbated this season with the loss of teams' offseason programs and a possible late start to training camps. Both the Packers and the Saints will have their challenges heading into the opener, there is no doubt. Will the Saints embracing offseason player-led workouts give them even the slightest edge against a Packers team that has completely disregarded the possible benefits of such gatherings?

We are (hopefully) going to find out.

 

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Comments (26)

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FITZCORE1252's picture

June 06, 2011 at 11:07 pm

Said it before, I'll say it again... If by some miracle the aints are able to start their season 1-0, it will have nothing to do with these player only practices. As long as our vets get a couple "tune-up" pre-season games, we will be just fine. It's kinda sad that guys like Green, Williams and Cobb won't be able to offer much early though (Cobb maybe on ST's more than the others). But with guys like Finley coming back, a couple tune-ups and I'm not worried at all. The difference makers on our team are vets and know the O and D like the back of their hands by now, we're not "relying" on youth at this point. Just a week or two of a training camp knock the dust off and we're ready to defend, because all the other teams will be facing the same thing, but we're better equiped to handle it, that includes the aints.

GBP 4 LIFE

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Buck's picture

June 07, 2011 at 03:55 am

I think the problem for the Pack as well as all the other teams "if" they don't get to practice, or worse yet it goes into the season will rest with the "special teams" and "penalties". Even with a strong core of vets on the O&D, not being able to practice together will result in poor preformance on special teams and everyone taking more penalties than they should.

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WoodyG's picture

June 07, 2011 at 04:35 am

It's still a full 3 months before game 1 ..... At this point I just can't see any advantage because the Saints are conducting 'grass drills' in their shorts on some college campus ....

GB is not a team in transition ..... Players & coaches will be pretty much the same ..... The offensive & defensive schemes will be pretty much the same ....

Make sure R. Cobb knows where to go on KRs & PRs ..... And make sure N. Barnett doesn't run out on the field with the starting D ..... Anything else ??

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PackersRS's picture

June 07, 2011 at 09:21 am

Make sure there are at least 3 Fullbacks available at all times.

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Chad Toporski's picture

June 07, 2011 at 06:07 am

I thought Bill Johnson was spot on last week (?) on G&G Today when he said that no matter what happens, the player-led practices (or lack thereof) will become one of the big scapegoats for whatever happens during the season.

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NoWayJose's picture

June 07, 2011 at 11:48 am

This. We (the media, the fans) have nothing else to talk about. So guess what? This will get blown out of proportion, no matter how it plays out.

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PackerAaron's picture

June 07, 2011 at 12:58 pm

And if the Saints show up on Sept 8th and look sharp and execute their offense and the Packers look sloppy and disjointed?

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PackersRS's picture

June 07, 2011 at 01:01 pm

Like they did oh so many times in the past, even though they had gone through all OTAs, minicamp, Training Camp, and had been a juggernaut in preseason?

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PackerAaron's picture

June 07, 2011 at 01:33 pm

Yep - totally expected this. Not what I'm talking about. What if their timing and execution is noticeably off compared to the Saints?

Look, I don't think for a second any of this will matter - ask Brian. I've long been a proponent of a shortened offseason and have repeatedly said most offseason activities are useless.

I just find the approaches taken by both teams to be very interesting and love the fact that they get to play each other Week One.

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Ken's picture

June 07, 2011 at 04:27 pm

Aaron: How can you claim "most offseason activities are useless?"

You've never been a Pro Football coach. My God.

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PackerAaron's picture

June 07, 2011 at 04:37 pm

Same way I can have an opinion on who does a good or poor job being President. Or are we only allowed to have opinions about jobs we've held?

My God.

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Ken's picture

June 07, 2011 at 05:08 pm

I'm not saying you can't critique a profession or aspects within it but to speak as an authoritative figure on what's useful in coaching and what isn't?

Especially after we just won the Super Bowl with maybe the league's most exhaustive offseason schedule?

Really?

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PackerAaron's picture

June 07, 2011 at 09:46 pm

OTAs and Mini Camps are glorified babysitting services. There is certainly value in having rookie and first or second year players in during the spring and summer for a week or so. I know McCarthy loves his offseason program and attributes a lot of his program's success to it. But I still maintain that a lot of what he accomplishes in May and June can be done in the early parts of training camp. Coaches love control - McCarthy is no different.

It will be interesting to see if his offense comes out of the gate firing and his team finds early success. Year after year McCarthy's teams start slowly after all this exhaustive off-season work. Maybe having that time taken away from him will force them to simplify things a bit and help the offense get off to a faster start.

I'm not saying I have the answer - I just have an opinion.

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PackersRS's picture

June 07, 2011 at 07:15 pm

I hear ya, but then again, re-watch the Miami and Washington game (I know you already did), and you'll see tons of miscomunication between Rodgers and the receivers, specially on those backshoulder throws.

I understand the reasoning, but it's like Chad said. If that happens, it's not because of lack of player-organized training. But it will be the culprit.

In fact, I could make a point that if they do show sloppiness in the preseason, they'll show up much more prepared to the season opener than they would if they would just roll over everybody in the preseason. There won't be as much complacency.

It's like Teddy Bruschi said, it's not the lack of training that bothers me, but rather the (perceived) "celebration" mentality. That could be a problem. I hope it ends with the ring ceremony, and focus reverts back to repeating.

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Ken's picture

June 08, 2011 at 09:23 am

Thank you for clarifying, Aaron! You're certainly entitled to opinions.

But while they may be "baby-sitting sessions," Mike Sherman didn't believe in offseason work and look how slow his teams would start annually. They would have nearly 55 training camp practices open to the public! Now, there's maybe 25?

The results:
0-2 start in 2000
3-4 in '03
1-4 in '04
0-4 in '05

Sherman had miserable playoff outings but his real shortcoming was he had NO IDEA how to prepare a team for the gates. The Packers should've had top-2 seeds in the playoffs multiple times in his tenure. They never did because they played catch-up (while Tice was being Tice) and it cost us.

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PackerAaron's picture

June 08, 2011 at 12:04 pm

"Mike Sherman didn’t believe in offseason work"

I think you're confusing Mike Sherman with Brett Favre.

Sherman had plenty of offseason work. That emphasis certainly shifted under McCarthy, but it was still there.

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Ken's picture

June 08, 2011 at 01:21 pm

Sherman didn't demand young players stick around the Green Bay area in March when the weather was horrible. And allowing Favre to skip OTAs and minicamp did Mac (and Chilly haha) no favors.

Overall, I'd strongly disagree that Sherman's program from March-June remotely even shadowed McCarthy's. I'd argue Sherman put a much, much greater emphasis on training camp.

Maybe Ted T has jaded me but I almost think training camp has lost importance from even the 1990s. The OTAs at least get the players acclimated with schemes. If you think training camp is that important, look at Clay Matthews.

And maybe Sherman should've done more hand-holding:

See: Carroll, Ahmad; Hunt, Cletius; Thomas, Joey

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PackerAaron's picture

June 08, 2011 at 01:37 pm

"I’d strongly disagree that Sherman’s program from March-June remotely even shadowed McCarthy’s."

Never said it did. But you make it sound like once the previous season was over, Sherman just said "See you in August!" - which of course is just not the case.

And its not that I "think training camp is so important" (in fact, you're kind of helping my argument here) - if training camp is so UNimportant, why not do the work you would be doing in March, April and May - in late July and early August? Because then clubs wouldn't have their eyes on their guys all spring and summer. Our control-freak coaches can't have that... ;)

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Ken's picture

June 08, 2011 at 04:22 pm

Ha, I hate bashing Sherman. Bottom line the guy won 10+ games in four of six years. 90 percent of NFL cities would take that (but not here).

I'm just trying to say that McCarthy slowly brings a football team along, more of a steady-as-she-goes approach. A navigator of the ship, if you will (look at his track record of holding "questionable" players out with injuries) whereas Sherman burned teams out by wearing them out in camp (wearing out in modern day standards).

Even in 2009, we were as fresh as any team down the stretch. Just played a horrible defensive game.

My thesis basically is: "If we're going to do meaningless work, let's do it over the summer when pads aren't involved, allowing for more time to bitch about Pat Lee."

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Ceallaigh's picture

June 14, 2011 at 11:41 am

I know, a week late, but oh well.

My thoughts on unofficial Not!Mini Camps.

For the most part they are window dressing an orchestrated photo ops. I mean, seriously, how effective is trotting down a field en masse for the cameras?

The injury risk is too high for anything serious. Players don't have the umbrella protection they would hve at a sanctioned work-out. If one of them blew a knee out at one of these kumbaya sessions it would be no different than blowing a knee out snowboarding: he would be equally SOL from an injury and liabilty stand point.

If anything, getting together is a way to strengthen morale. Wouldn't you think the private ceremony where they get their rings would be suffice for developing warm fuzzies?

Just not sold that the Not!Minicamps are the magic bullet to success in the 2011 season.

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Chazman's picture

June 07, 2011 at 07:24 am

I think that early on in the season the defensive side of the ball will have the biggest impact on games until the offensive units can catch up. With that in mind, I really feel good about our chances to beat anybody because our defense not only defends . . . it scores as well.
In DOM we trust.

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Ken's picture

June 07, 2011 at 08:54 am

I think it's hypocrisy that player-led workouts can be considered meaningful, yet preseason games against real-life NFL competition are glazed over.

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ZeroTolerance's picture

June 07, 2011 at 09:51 am

Agreed.

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cow42's picture

June 07, 2011 at 09:54 am

I would not mind seeing the Packers get together.
It would show me that they aren't "resting" on last season's accomplishments.

Complacency is the only opponent I fear heading into this coming season.

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Satori's picture

June 07, 2011 at 03:06 pm

The Saints last game was on January 9th, a horrible loss to the underdog Seahawks.

GB practiced, played and won for an entire month while the Saints were getting fat on French Quarter pastries

The Saints know how far behind GB they are and are working to close the gap:

1) by hosting coach-less workouts with a partial squad

2)crowing about it on the internet

BFD...

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Chris K's picture

June 07, 2011 at 10:15 pm

I think it's an interesting topic that everyone has an opinion on. Like soeone stated, Rookie, 1st year 2nd year, and 3rd year players benefit the most from the Rookie orientations and Minicamps. I think its crucial at some positions more than others... Randall Cobb for example has already missed Rookie OTA's and 2 minicamps. He's not going to see much time in our offense till probably late in the season when he can catch up, he'll be the K&PR.
But There's a reason minicamps are there so teams/coachs/players can see what is going to be installed this year as well as what they will be working to perfect in training camp.
I believe that the OTA's are important as is the QB camp but they could stand to shorten the preseason.
There is a reason that those are there and there not just for coach's control. Even a guy like Darren Sharper & Ronde Barber said they were on NFL Network. They would know.

The Packers are a team that played as one stated 4 weeks longer than the Saints but their offense is so much reliant on timing it willbe interesting to see.

What is happening now with these team gatherings are not going to do much at all except for teams more relying on rookies and 2nd year guys.

Go Pack Go!!!

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