Mike McCarthy Calls Playing Micah Hyde at Safety "An Option"
After getting subpar production from their safeties in 2013, the Packers might look for help in-house in the form of Micah Hyde.
Green Bay Packers head coach Mike McCarthy at the NFL Combine. Photo by Brian Carriveau of CheeseheadTV.com.
INDIANPOLIS––It was almost exactly a year ago at the NFL Combine that Micah Hyde expressed his desire to play cornerback first and foremost in the NFL, but he wouldn't close the door entirely on safety.
"This whole process I've been trying to be evaluated as a corner," said Hyde in February of 2013. "I let them know I'm a versatile player like I just told you guys, and I'm capable of doing whatever. I played safety in the past. I'm just throwing that out there, just to let them know whatever they put me at, I can do."
The time may have arrived to put Hyde at safety with Packers head coach Mike McCarthy acknowledging for the first time on Friday that playing Hyde at safety is a possibility.
Like fellow second-year player Eddie Lacy on offense, McCarthy wants to see Hyde develop into a player that doesn't come off the field.
"Micah, to me, is a multiple-position player," said McCarthy. "I think Micah, just like we talked about the running backs, I'd like to see Micah compete to play all three downs on defense.
"If there's a personnel group that he has to play safety, that's an option. He's also played nickel, he's played dime, he's played corner. He's definitely someone that I think that's earned the opportunity to compete to be on the field all three downs."
To say the Packers got subpar play at safety this past season would be putting it kindly. One statistic that's been cited repeatedly has been the failure of any player at the position to grab so much as a single interception.
Taking things a step further, M.D. Jennings was credited by the NFL with only one pass defended the entire season in 855 snaps (per ProFootballFocus.com).
McCarthy doesn't believe statistics paint a full picture, but he does think the Packers need more production from the position.
"If you want to throw out statistics, Morgan was very productive as far as tackles, but we want more plays made by our safeties," said McCarthy. "I think that's important. Really, it all fits together.
"We need to go back, which we have, and look at exactly how we're utilizing everybody: What are you practicing? What are you calling in the games? We go through this every single year. Are we creating enough play-making opportunities for our players? Why are they not making more plays? We graded each and every week; we grade the same way during practices and it's definitely an area we need to improve. We need to make more plays on defense period."
After finishing 25th in the NFL in total defense in 2013, McCarthy on Friday spoke about being more creative on defense and utilizing players in more than one role, and that's perhaps where Hyde will fit.
Despite being just a part-time player in his rookie season, Hyde showed potential and versatility in making 55 tackles on defense and leading all NFL rookies in punt return average (12.3 yards).
Hyde also proved to be a physical presence at the slot cornerback position, making several strong tackles and lending credence that he might mesh well at safety.
Maybe Hyde could fill a role not unlike former Packer Charles Woodson, who in his final year in Green Bay in 2012 would play safety in the base defense but become a slot cornerback in the nickel and dime subpackages. At least it's one way not give up on Hyde playing cornerback entirely.
McCarthy has likened Hyde to Woodson in the past, and it's shown to be an increasingly apropos comparison given their physical style of play and comfort with the football in their hands.
There are other options for the Packers to add talent at safety, either through free agency or the draft or both. But there's also the possibility to stay in-house.
With such an obvious need at safety in Green Bay and the potential for more playing time, Hyde might warm to the idea.
"I've played safety in the past, and I'm capable of doing that," said Hyde at last year's Combine. "If I'm drafted playing safety, I'd love to do that."
Green Bay Packers defensive back Micah Hyde at the NFL Combine. Photo by Brian Carriveau of CheeseheadTV.com.
Brian Carriveau is the author of the book "It's Just a Game: Big League Drama in Small Town America," and editor of Cheesehead TV's "Pro Football Draft Preview." To contact Brian, email [email protected].
Comments (111)
February 21, 2014 at 08:35 pm
amazing! something i posted on here 10 different times over the past 9 months. HE'S A BORN SAFETY!!!
February 21, 2014 at 08:56 pm
We'll see. The guy makes plays. The Packers are a young team with a lot of new guys gaining experience. They need a few play making vets. The pressure is on big time for the D to make a big jump. Ted is full of it when he says he's like to keep all the FA's. At least 2 play making FA's will be signed.
February 21, 2014 at 09:22 pm
4thand1, I agree with you, if you're saying, we need a proven Safety. I believe we are going to have to buy our way out of the Safety problem. I don't think we currently have the answer on GB. Hyde is a Good player, but I think we need a Vet with him. I don't think we can Draft or Play our way out of this Void. Did I understand you correctly?
February 21, 2014 at 09:33 pm
The best way to improve the play at Safety is to sign a FA, whether a high end playmaker like Byrd or a mid-level starter doesn't matter and move Hyde to Safety as well. Drafting a Safety might be a fix in a couple years, but not soon enough. Hyde might have trouble converting to safety and handling its more varied responsibilities. So even moving Hyde, in and of itself might not be a cure all. I don't doubt he can play Safety well, IMO its his best position, but I'm not sold that he would be an immediate cure. He could struggle for a year w/ the transition.
February 21, 2014 at 11:54 pm
Agreed. Need TT to deliver a FA here if we want even mediocre safety play in 2014. Hyde at safety is intriguing, but no slam dunk.
February 22, 2014 at 01:24 am
I don't see Byrd coming to the Pack. He's gonna be too expensive. Remember we must resign Shields, EDS, and extend Cobb and Nelson.
February 22, 2014 at 07:46 am
A guy that proved he can play in 2013 is Micah Hyde. Since the Packers use their nickel and dime a lot like their Safeties, you could even say Hyde is proven in a "changed" position.
I sure wouldn't mind signing a veteran. Or drafting a young guy to compete and/or fill out the dime defense.
But I consider moving Hyde an "acquisition" at Safety.
February 22, 2014 at 12:05 pm
yes , Tom
February 21, 2014 at 08:57 pm
Well depending on what we do in the draft and free agency e might see him there. But McCarthy said they go threw the same evaluation every year but same results well there a problem McCarthy and somthing needs to change. I see that your saying all the right things by saying alot things on deffense will be different this year well ok ill belive it when I see it I can't take anymore of this crap with this deffense its really frustrating.
February 21, 2014 at 09:23 pm
Last year at this exact time(?) he Stated... "The Running game WILL be improved!" How'd that turn out? They improved from 20's running the ball, to #7 overall and it'll likely be even better this year.
February 21, 2014 at 09:33 pm
Keep the faith. Can't wait for FA and the draft. This team is close.
February 21, 2014 at 09:45 pm
I have a lot of faith in McCarthy and Thompson. I just don't understand why Greenville would doubt them so much. They delivered on a SB and on improving the running game. Losing 3 playmakers on D is what hurt the Packers D so badly.
February 22, 2014 at 01:26 am
Who is Greenville?
February 22, 2014 at 09:50 am
The past 3 years this deffense has. Been horrible week after week. McCarthy preeched that the deffense has to improve same stuff year after year. Well like I said ill belive it when I see it talk is cheap. I have my opinion and you have yours. But ERASERHEAD who are u dont worry about me. I voice my opinion and how I feel as anyone else if you dont like it dont read it keep it moving.
February 22, 2014 at 10:05 am
Packers have invested in the D, but the DL Worthy, Jones need a chance to develop. Pretty common knowledge it takes DL a couple years to reach their NFL potential. Losing playmakers Collins, Bishop to career ending injuries is what took the teeth out of the Packers D. Both took till year 4 to really become playmakers. Lets see what happens w/ Jones, Worthy, Perry, Hayward, Burnett. We need a one or 2 of them to become playmakers.
Its relatively easy to replace a guy who is just a starter (Hawk), but its quite another to take playmakers out of a D in their prime like Bishop and Collins were. Its no coincidence that Safety and ILB are our 2 biggest needs, it correlates perfectly w/ those career ending injuries!
We lost another playmaker in Woodson to age/salary, but that should be covered by Hayward and Hyde.
February 22, 2014 at 11:13 am
I didn't catch your name above. I thought Greenville was code for something.
February 22, 2014 at 01:26 am
Lacy is a freak! Fun fact: He's named like me.
February 21, 2014 at 09:17 pm
Hyde will be to defensive backs what Hawk is to linebackers.
He'll always be available. He'll always be steady. He'll always know his assignment. He'll never be a game changer.
If they keep him at slot corner then that position will be upgraded due to the fact that he held it last year and should be 1 year improved. If he moves to safety that position will be upgraded simply due to the fact that it couldn't possibly be worse than it was last season.
Also - this could all be "smoke".
Packers don't want it to seem as obvious as it is that they're hunting for safeties in the draft. Same goes for the "we're not looking to get smaller on the DL" stuff.
Don't believe anything being said (that's a good thing).
February 21, 2014 at 10:11 pm
This clown guy sounds just like cow, only stupider. I hope the packers get a safety that is a bad ass mother fucker on the field but says please and thank you off the field. Ok, maybe just a smart guy who is a good tackler.
February 22, 2014 at 12:33 am
Hayward is the slot DB. Hyde's not beating him out, ever.
Hyde's best career move could be a switch to SS. He's football smart, around the ball, and obviously a good tackler, but perhaps a tad slow to be a consistent DB.
February 22, 2014 at 09:07 am
Yep, Hyde has almost no chance of winning Haywards nickel job, but he could become a very good Safety and continue to play the Dime CB role. Moving to Safety would be his best career move IMO, and it would also let him slide forward to be the dime CB
February 22, 2014 at 09:55 am
And this isn't about winning a super bowl 3 years ago. Every football fan,coach,player,analyst knows this is a what have you done for me lately league. Not based on wat you did in the passed. And how bad are deffense has regressed sense the super bowl somthing has to change point blank period not just talking about it be about it.
February 22, 2014 at 10:12 am
Who was talking about the SB 3 years ago? We're looking FORWARD, not backward here. Join the club...
Our D regressed due to career ending injuries to 2 key playmakers who were in the PRIME of their careers! You don't replace Collins and Bishop's playmaking overnite. Losing those 2 playmakers in their prime is what took the teeth out of the Packers Defense. Along w/ Woodson to age/salary that 3 key playmakers on our D that were lost recently. Its relatively easy to replace a starter (Hawk) its quite another to replace Playmakers!
February 22, 2014 at 11:04 am
Stro you just said I have faith in mccarthy and Thompson we won a super bowl. Duh!!!! That was 3 years ago. Wat I'm saying is sense then there been nothing to show for on the deffense side of the ball. You mentioning a super bowl from 3 years ago has, nothing to do with wats going on with this deffense now. And obviously I'm moving forward by wanting changes because of the lack luster deffense. performances the past three seasons, it seems you mentioning a super bowl 3 years ago. Point blank period what have you done for me lately this is a bussiness not a o I did this years ago situation basement off that. It dosent work like that in the NFL buddy.
February 22, 2014 at 11:43 pm
Tell that to Belichek! He hasn't won a SB in about 8 years and he's still HC and probably has more influence in the draft than his GM does. Once you win a SB you get a LONG leash! Its the holy grail for a HC or GM. If you've got the ring, its the thing... The thing that keeps you employed for a long time!
February 23, 2014 at 10:56 am
Belichick is the GM...
February 22, 2014 at 01:31 am
I disagree my bovine friend. I believe Hyde can be even better as a safety. You know why? 'Cause he's too fucking slow to play CB!!! However he seems to be a willing and sure tackler, so he can be an in the box type safety of sorts.
February 21, 2014 at 11:00 pm
Being random.... but this draft is insanely deep. And honestly seferian jenkins and eric ebron are amazing talents. I want one of them. Or the iowa te lol. Just grab me one of them
February 22, 2014 at 01:32 am
C.J. Fiedorowicz.
February 22, 2014 at 02:21 am
Thank you.
February 22, 2014 at 02:25 am
Anytime.
February 22, 2014 at 01:34 am
Fun Fact: Proxima Centauri is the nearest star to the Sun, at around 4.27 light years away.
February 22, 2014 at 09:51 am
When do you leave?
February 22, 2014 at 02:52 am
I think some of you guys are misunderstanding what McCarthy means by Hyde playing safety. When the packers play dime, capers wants three safeties. Hyde will be the dime back (which in capers defense, the dime back is a safety close to the line of scrimmage that can diagnose, cover, play the run, and blitz). Hyde fits that role well.
If you remember capers always said Woodson is already playing some safety (when people/media kept asking about Woodson converting to safety). Woodson was the dime safety when the packers were in dime.
Capers wants a safety/corner hybrid type for the dime position. And that's where Hyde fits.
February 22, 2014 at 08:33 am
The problem with the Capers defense is it requires skill guys with speed, taclkling ability, coverage ability and quick reaction time. Our players lack that so Dom's defense is only cleaver on paper.
February 22, 2014 at 09:52 am
You just described every defense in the NFL. DUH
February 22, 2014 at 11:15 am
I don't like using safeties to cover wideouts.
February 22, 2014 at 08:20 am
I love the idea of converting Hyde into the kind of position Woodson played for us. He may never be as good as CW, but he looks the part and we got him in the 5th round. Not bad.
I really wish that people would stop wishing for Ebron or Amaro with our first pick. We proved that we could win games with a marginally terrible defense and Aaron Rodgers at QB. Why not focus on defense and keep Aaron on the field more? I really hope our first two picks are Jernigan/Donald and Chris Borland. I want to trust our scout team, but at some point, I wonder who the hell is scouting our DL choices. We don't seem to have had much success there in recent drafts. By the time draft day rolls around we'll all have a clearer picture of what it is we really need (after figuring out who we resigned). Obviously that makes a huge difference. If we let Raji go, which is likely, then Louis Nix or a Hagemann suddenly makes sense. I don't care what happens, we all have our own opinions buying into different guys, our front seven just needs to get better. If you get enough consistent pressure on the QB and can stop the run, you don't NEED to go get Pryor or Clinton-Dix, either. That being said, if the draft is today, I see GB taking Pryor, Clinton-Dix, Donald, or Jernigan. That being said, we'll probably take some DE out of Furman at which point we'll all look at each other, shrug our shoulders, and hope Ted found us a gem.
Either way, I'm excited.
February 22, 2014 at 09:49 am
Agree about TE, not in the 1st! But completely disagree about Jerrnigan and Donald. They are strictly 43 DT in the NFL and we already have Worthy (same as Jernigan) and Daniels (same as Donald) to play as DT in nickel/dime defenses and possibly in some base 34 too. I agree w/ need to draft a DL, and think it'll probably be relatively high, but what we need is another True 34 DE. A 6'5 300+ lb, to play in base and if he can help Worthy, Daniels, Jones as a inside pass rusher, all the better! But we don't need another guy just like Daniels and Worthy. Daniels has turned out to be an excellent pick and Worthy and Jones need to DEVELOP just like the vast majority of NFL DL do!
Borland might be a good pick in the 3rd but I don't think he's a 2nd rd talent. We need another ILB for sure, but we need a more athletic ILB that can run to the ball and cover TE. I don't thing Borland fits what the Packers need. IMO he would be another Hawk.
I think Hageman and Nix are possible in the 1st. Nix would fill the NT job again if Raji leaves, Hageman the true 34 DE that we need. Hageman has a boom/bust quality to him, if you want a safer pick Tuitt would make sense. He's actually played the 5 tech position and there's film of him in the role and he's a high motor player a la Daniels.
February 22, 2014 at 03:25 pm
I agree with all of this... except for you not wanting Donald.
That kid is unbelievable.
If you can get him on your team you do it.
Coaches get paid to figure out how to put guys in position to succeed.
I love Daniels... him and Donald together would be ridiculous.
February 22, 2014 at 04:36 pm
Donald is an absolute monster. Passing on him just because you have Daniels would be like passing on Joe Montana because you have Danny White!! STROH KNOWS SHIT.
February 22, 2014 at 05:13 pm
Donald looks like a very good DT, unfortunately for Donald the Packers already have 3 players that would fill the exact same role as Donald would! Any takers that he gets drafted by a 43 D?!
But thanx again for paying Homage!!
February 22, 2014 at 05:18 pm
I agree on Donald, he's an animal and it wouldn't hurt to have him. I'd cut Worthy's bum ass for Donald. However I disagree on Stroh. He actually seems like a decent dude.
February 22, 2014 at 08:30 am
Based on what I'm hearing of recent from Ted and Mike, sounds like they are still on the cheap ball band wagon: low ball our free agents so they stay with us but at a lower costs, try and make some pig ears into silk purses by just moving people around.
Sounds like a plan for disaster. Several very good safeties are hitting the market right now and not a smigeon of talk of Ted going out and getting prices.
If I'm right, the defense gives it up big time next season and this time has a tough year.
I can see a QB needing some time to develop but a DE? Datone was on the bench because Datone had no leverage or upper body strenght and his quickness is non existant.
February 22, 2014 at 09:53 am
You don't know a damn thing your talking about! Thanx for making that perfectly clear!
February 22, 2014 at 10:07 am
He 's trying , but just another TT hater. These people think you should win a SB every fuckin year. They have no clue how to run a team. Sign a bunch of high price FA's and if you don't get lucky and win it all, you're fucked for years down the road.
February 23, 2014 at 04:24 pm
GO AWAY STRAWMAN. YOU ARE A DUMB POS. THAT'S WHY THEY KICKED YOU OUT OF APC.
February 23, 2014 at 06:59 pm
No actually its not! Old news it was a long time ago. But thanx for stopping by to pay homage again. I do appreciate it!
February 22, 2014 at 10:02 am
Maybe we all will be happy in a few weeks. They have 30 mil to play with , so I'm sure they're crunching the numbers to see what's possible. 1 big FA would be nice. Orakpo or Byrd.
February 22, 2014 at 10:35 am
Byrd would be ideal. Big question is IF he makes FA. I really can't see Buff letting him get away, but then I don't know their cap situation. I would pass on Orakpo, I think Perry or Neal could be nearly as good. Safety or DL would be the places to look at FA IMO.
February 22, 2014 at 11:17 am
I say sign a mid-tier safety, draft a rookie safety, and sign Terrence Cody or something. Super Bowl.
February 22, 2014 at 12:09 pm
Thought you were leaving for Proxima Centauri. You better go at night so you won't fry.
February 22, 2014 at 12:30 pm
You redneck asshead! Stars are never off!
February 22, 2014 at 12:38 pm
Lmfao, you're so bright! Up yours, I hate country music.
February 22, 2014 at 01:38 pm
I hate it too. What's your point?
February 22, 2014 at 06:17 pm
I'm as far from a redneck as you are from Proxima Centauri.
February 22, 2014 at 01:58 pm
I'm not advocating signing Orakpo but this...
"I would pass on Orakpo, I think Perry or Neal could be nearly as good. "
...is PRICELESS!
Whoever's saving my predictions to throw back in my face later on, please save this one too. Just classic.
February 22, 2014 at 02:11 pm
"I would pass on Orakpo, I think Perry or Neal could be nearly as good."
Another GEM from the Strohman. The Strohman needs to return to his 1st love - soccer.
February 22, 2014 at 02:17 pm
What was that I had to Google? Strohman Packers for hilarity?
February 22, 2014 at 02:27 pm
Orakpo is averaging less than 10 sack per year. With a littke more development I don't see any reason either of the can't approach 10ssacks. Especially if they're put in more favorable situations like Orakpo gets!
You trolls don't know squat about football!
February 22, 2014 at 02:57 pm
Come on Strohman --- Neal won't even be resigned by GB & Perry is still a project.
You simply can't be making statements based on what you HOPE will happen. --- Reality is 'what actually does happen'.
Hey, tell us more about your "strength & conditioning" days." --- That's always fun listening to that line of $hit!!
February 22, 2014 at 03:07 pm
You know who else averages less than 10 sacks a year? The vaunted Clay Matthews.
February 22, 2014 at 03:30 pm
Neal will never get 10 sacks in 1 year.
Perry will never do it 2 years in a row.
Dude - you're right about a lot of stuff... but you're off on this one.
You know it too.
It's cool that you love the Packers. I actually envy how you always seem to see how things can get better (in fact - you always EXPECT that they will)... but I doubt you'll find another Packer fan anywhere (who knows Orakpo) who would agree with you on this.
February 22, 2014 at 03:53 pm
Neal had 5 sacks playing probably about 1/2 as many sacks as Orakpo (who had exactly 10 sacks last season). It was Neal's 1st year transitioning to OLB and he made the transition fairly well. He also did most of his pass rushing at LOLB where he doen't have as much freedom to rush as Orakpo had playing ROLB!
Perry also rushed mostly from the LOLB, but if he were put at ROLB, where Perry showed he was far more disruptive, he could get 10 sacks regularly!
THAT is what I know. I don't some COW PIE Pos to tell me what I know. All you F'in trolls should pay attention on Sundays or read more than each others comments and you MIGHT (tho I doubt any of you has the ability to) learn a little!
I've said REPEATEDLY Perry is much more disruptive on the Right side than the Left and if you've watched him in college or the NFL you would have seen it too!
February 22, 2014 at 10:22 pm
Interestingly enough, Orakpo was a college DE also.
February 22, 2014 at 03:09 pm
Do some reading you P.O.S.!!
February 22, 2014 at 03:44 pm
Thanx for stopping by and paying homage to me again!!
February 22, 2014 at 04:38 pm
You're crazy.
February 22, 2014 at 10:53 pm
Anyone that has his own personal troll is obviously doing something VERY Right!
February 22, 2014 at 11:52 pm
Calling someone crazy for presenting facts is crazy.
February 22, 2014 at 02:09 pm
Go after Jairus Byrd.
February 22, 2014 at 02:15 pm
Micah Hyde may be a tick slow in short area quickness but he does have some pretty good long speed and with his instincts and size I think he would be a natural at Safety.
Still like to see another proven safety added via FA and even a high draft pick at the position if one falls to us in the 1st 3 rounds. Its too important of a position to just hope and pray we fill it with a good player.
February 22, 2014 at 02:30 pm
You should read a little! Hyde's quickness is pretty good. His long speed us what he's lacking and why he fell to the 5th rd!
February 22, 2014 at 03:18 pm
Forget about reading I go with what I see with my own eyes. I watched him run down speedster returners on STs and watch him take off on kick or punt return. When he turns on the jets he has good speed maybe not great speed but hes not slow by any means.
I see him get beat at CB within the first 5 or so yards which tells me he either has bad technique or he lacks the short area quickness to win in the first 5 yards.
February 22, 2014 at 03:32 pm
If he had long speed they would have beaten the Steelers.
He's quicker than he is fast.
His long speed is his weak-spot.
February 22, 2014 at 05:26 pm
You didn't see games in the preseason where he got beat deep? Its obvious watching him he doesn't have speed to stay w/ recievers outside, which is why he is relegated to playing the slot in nickel and dime where long speed isn't important but quickness is. Why do you think he did so well playing the slot but they put House outside ahead of him?! Your eyes are lying to you... Or your not looking very closely.
February 22, 2014 at 02:40 pm
All positions are important. Except maybe fullback.
February 22, 2014 at 06:19 pm
I like doggie style.
February 22, 2014 at 06:22 pm
Fun Fact: 4thand1 is a bitch.
February 22, 2014 at 06:24 pm
Not for the Packers, they have Lacy.
February 23, 2014 at 07:55 am
More classy posts eraserhead
February 23, 2014 at 11:40 am
Fun Fact: ray nichkee is a LITTLE bitch.
February 23, 2014 at 01:03 pm
So erased... 4thand1 makes a joke to lighten things up and you say he's a bitch?! Why wouldnt ee think your a troll when you say things like that?!
You want us to take you serious as a packer fan talk Packer football and make constructive comments. Not all negativity and name calling.
February 23, 2014 at 04:23 pm
Listen Stroh, 4thand1 is the one who began insulting me in the first place because he didn't agree with my opinions. That's fine, he doesn't have to. But to start blasting me, calling me dumb, crazy, and worse, that's not cool. I'll stop if he stops. And I have been talking Packers football. I said I want Hyde to play safety because he seems better suited for it that at CB.
February 23, 2014 at 04:31 pm
You're insulting me, I'm really Clay Matthews.
February 23, 2014 at 05:06 pm
Can I have your autograph?
February 22, 2014 at 09:21 pm
Yeah, Micah Hyde does not have long speed. He's a good fit for Caper"s dime safety because he can cover TE's and does decent with slot receivers. He's not afraid to stick his nose in there for tackling or blitzing. Plus he's smart.
If you use the 2010 defense as a baseline, the 2013 Packers defense is much slower. Woodson could still run in 2010. Shields was fastest guy on team. Collins was probably second fastest on team. Tramon was still extremely fast. Collins and Shields were probably two of the fastest guys in the entire NFL in 2010.
I like Hyde, but it never hurts to be faster. Til this day, I'll never understand the Pat Lee pick in second round. He was slow when he was drafted and he was slow when he left the Packers. It's almost as if TT doesn't (didn't) get it. Maybe he gets it now.
February 22, 2014 at 10:49 pm
Pat Lee ran low 4.4 40 and was physical. He had poor technique and his quickness (ability to change directions was poor). His shuttle time was terrible. Straight speed he had, but he didn't have any quickness.
February 23, 2014 at 06:30 am
I've always been skeptical of Pat Lee's combine time for the following reasons:
1. It was the first year they did the electronic starts and first year doing anything, and there's bound to be glitches.
2. Yes, I'm skeptical of Chris Johnson's 4.24 too at that same exact combine. I'd believe a 4.31 but not a 4.24.
3. Pat Lee ran a 4.51 at his pro day. Players usually run faster at pro days. Pat Lee didn't. I believe 4.51 was pat lee's true 40 time. And he got slower and slower each year with the packers
4. I'm skeptical of some of the other 40 times in 2008.
http://nflcombineresults.com/nflcombinedata.php?year=2008&pos=&c...
5. Pat Lee looked like a 4.6-4.7 guy when he was out on the field/Lambeau at best. Maybe he can't run with pads and helmet.
I'm not saying all the 40 times at that combine were electronic glitches, but pat lee's was. ;) lol
February 23, 2014 at 09:42 am
Why would some be glitches and others good? If there's a glitch in the system it would affect all the times, not just a few.
I agree Lee didn't play to his timed speed, but there can be many reason's for that. Unsure of an assignment is a primary one, maybe he couldn't process info quickly. Maybe the scheme was too complex for him, but his college scheme was very easy or they simplified it for him. Whatever the case, it doesn't really matter.
If a glitch in the system is present it would affect all the times, not just select ones.
February 23, 2014 at 08:04 am
"It’s almost as if TT doesn’t (didn’t) get it. Maybe he gets it now."
Talk about missing the forest for the tree!
Exhibits A thru F that TT "gets it" with CBs: Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Sam Shields, Casey Hayward, Davon House, Micah Hyde. All have met or exceeded reasonable expectations considering the cost of acquisition. Woodson, Williams and Shields exceeded expectations by a lot. Whether that is all TT, his staff, Joe Whitt, Jr or some combo of all of the above is a debatable point, I suppose.
Hayward, Hyde and House remain works in progress but given the track record at CB, including Pat Lee, there is plenty of reason for optimism that all will continue to grow as NFL players.
Even your disclaimer of didn't v doesn't is pretty thin considering Woodson and Williams pre-dated the Pat Lee pick. 31 other GMs had their crack at both. 31 other GMs passed on both. All 31 other GMs would have done it differently if they could have gone back to that point in time once hindsight brought things into 20/20 focus.
It's never a good idea to make a snap judgement and ignore subsequent contradictory information.
February 23, 2014 at 10:33 am
You're a funny dude Hank. If Ted Thompson thought either Tramon Williams or Sam Shields was going to be starting NFL cornerbacks, don't you think he would have at least drafted them? At least with a 6th round pick? lol You're too funny.
Woodson was proven commodity. Lots of tape on Woodson. He was All-Pro 1999-2001 and was very good in man-to-man coverage which is what the packers played heavily.
Hayward, House, and Hyde are already 10 times better than Pat Lee.
If John Schneider thought Richard Sherman was going to be a top 5 NFL cornerback and make 1st team All-Pro in his second and third years in the NFL, don't you think he would have at least taken him in the 3rd round? lol
I give up....where's my 4 leaf clover?
February 23, 2014 at 10:46 am
I can't tell you how the combine's electronic motion sensors work for the 40, because I just don't know. It had to be some type of glitch on Pat Lee's 40's.
His pro day time of 4.51 is his real time....IMHO They would have given him the benefit of the doubt on his times. And probably had 10 stop watches on him at Pro-Day.
Of course I'll never be able to prove any of what I'm saying. It's just my opinion based on what I observed while he was playing on the field as a GBP player.
February 23, 2014 at 11:16 am
How convenient for your theory that TT doesn't "get it" with CBs that his successes are luck and his failures on him. Even as you acknowledge that all his CB picks since Pat Lee were better than Lee. One might think you'd at least back off the present tense of TT's lack of vision with CBs.
Something is funny, that's for sure.
February 23, 2014 at 12:32 pm
Jordan... If you don't know how something works than how can you possibly say it didn't work for Lee? You can't say you don't know how something works then point to one example and say it didnt' work for him but did for others. That just doesn't fly! Its illogical to say the very least. You can't cherry pick to that extreme.
BTW have you ever seen CJ2K run in the open field? He literally runs away from EVERYONE including very fast CB's. Never been caught and he outruns every defender no matter the angle they have.
I gave you an out when I said he didn't play to his timed speed and gave possible explanations but your continuing w/ the timing system is completely irrational and illogical.
February 23, 2014 at 11:33 am
These trolls really are trolls. They aren't Fans that's for sure. They are going back in the past to rag on picks that didn't work. They even hope current picks are busts to prove their troll points. That's not the feelings of true fans of any team. When they start blasting players like CMIII and promising rookies like Hayward, you know they're trolling. They have nothing better to do than get their kicks out of posting on other teams sites. Homer is the key, they call themselves "objective" which is BS. Any fan can see what their team needs and most of them get it, except the trolls who love to stir the pot. We all know who they are.
February 23, 2014 at 11:39 am
You are the troll here!!! LMAO.
And Clay Matthews needs to man up and stop spending so much time with the doctor.
February 23, 2014 at 11:49 am
What are you guys like 12 years old? And sleep with your packer dolls? Posters all over your rooms?
No need to get all upset homers. We're just having adult Packer football talk about players and the draft.....past, present,future. That's what adult football fans do on Packers web sites. We talk about great players like Nick Collins and busts like Pat Lee. Now get used to it. Just close your eyes if it upsets you and don't read. Or you're going to get your homer feelings hurt. Or go have your Mom pour you a glass of Chocolate milk.
Now run along.
February 23, 2014 at 12:02 pm
4thand1 is a passionate realistic fan. See fans actually root for their team instead of going on their fan sites and deriding everything the team does. Guys like Cow, eraser, arloser, archie among others.
Which side do you fall on? Are you a realistic fan that recognizes they make mistakes but are still optimistic about the team and the success they've had or are you constantly berating anything they do, even tho they've been very successful at it?
February 23, 2014 at 12:41 pm
Woah I'm not berating everything. I love Lacy, Hayward, Nelson, Cobb, Bakh, Daniels, Boyd, Boykin, Flynn, Tramon, Shields.
February 23, 2014 at 12:48 pm
I find too much homerism and too much cynicism to be equally annoying. There's no need for anyone to be homer or cynic.
I think a heavy dose of criticism or anxiety coming off another 1 and done season is pretty normal, especially when it's around draft time. And Thompson's recent drafts have raised a few eyebrows. Every Packer forum that I've seen is the same way. Excited about the draft, but nervous about past screwups lol.
Realisticly, it's going to take a lot of luck to win the 2014 superbowl, considering how strong the 49ers and Seahawks are. And even if Packers were to beat niners and Seahawks, it's questionable, if they could beat denver, KC, or colts.
Most people that complain.....just hate losing and want to win. Which is pretty normal. So I don't pay too much attention to it.
Fans voicing their displeasure is not all bad. It certainly keeps TT, McCarthy on their toes. Vic keeps a pulse on the fans. ;)
I complained several times last year on different sites because TT didn't draft a safety. The homers told me to shutup because I didn't know what I was talking about. They told me to shutup and watch TT do his thang. Now the homers are all saying we need a safety in this year's draft and should have taken one last year. lol. It's comical.
Remember now, these are highly paid players, coaches, and GM's. They can take a little criticism. It won't hurt 'em. They don't read this site anyway.
February 23, 2014 at 03:04 pm
Homerism, hmmmmm. I like to be optimistic. If the Packers didn't sustain the injuries they did and finninshed 8-8-1, then I would be really concerned. If Perry and Jones don't improve then I'll say bad picks, still to early. Perry had some pretty bad luck so far. I like Perry and if I'm wrong about him I'll admit it. The D didn't force enough QB pressure with the front 7 and that exposes the whole D. We'll see what these changes are, but I'll be willing to bet, they'll be good.
February 23, 2014 at 12:38 pm
BINGO BANGO.
February 23, 2014 at 12:00 pm
You know who else averages less than 10 sacks a year? The vaunted Clay Matthews.
A response to factless earasergiveshead.
CMIII 5 years experience.
2009 rookie year=16 g 10.5 sacks
2010 15 g 13.5 sacks
2011 15 g 6 sacks
2012 12 g 13 sacks
2013 11 g 7.5 sacks
In 2013 play games with a club and cast after breaking his thumb while sacking Stafford. That's 50.5 sacks in 5 years. Do I have to spell it out for you?
February 23, 2014 at 12:20 pm
I would go so far as to take '13 out of it. He played w/ the broken thumb for a lot of the games he did play in. He really only played parts of 3 or 4 games healthy. The thumb dramatically affected his ability as a pass rusher and in tackling. That gives Matthews 43 sacks in 4 seasons. Orakpo had one injury season, taking that out he has 38 sacks in 4 seasons. Plus Matthews has played in 4 fewer games in those 4 seasons than Orakpo did in his 4 seasons. That doesn't even take into account double the turnovers and passes defensed by Matthews over Orakpo.
February 23, 2014 at 12:44 pm
Gave head to your mom!
I like Matthews but he needs to grow a pair. What did Jesus do when they put nails through his hands? Did he scream like a girl... or did he TAKE IT LIKE A MAN?!
February 23, 2014 at 04:37 pm
We really should leave God and polotics out of sports blogs. Sorry about the CMIII post about the "gives", part, it won't happen again. CM is pretty dam good and everyone wants to see some help on the other side. One player stepping up and this D will make a huge jump.
February 23, 2014 at 04:58 pm
I'm sorry too. My Jesus comment was supposed to be black comedy. It's a quote from "The Book of Mormon" a Broadway musical written by the South Park guys. A guy I would like to see us draft is Aaron Lynch. Check him out.
February 23, 2014 at 05:04 pm
Eraserhead & 4thand1, I'm glad to hear a civilized comment between the 2 of you. KEEP IT UP!!
February 23, 2014 at 05:08 pm
We can all follow TOM's example.
February 23, 2014 at 05:20 pm
Eraserhead & 4thand1, There was a guy who had a Great Post the other day. He said they came out with a coloring book about the 50 saddest moments in Cleveland sports, maybe you saw it.
I replied back, & said "Thank God we don't live in Cleveland. I get tears in my eyes at the end of "Major League"