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Lions: 7 Packers: 3

By Category

Lions: 7 Packers: 3

Tim Masthay, Tramon Williams, C. J. Wilson

The Bad

The Bad

Greg Jennings, Andrew Quarless, The offensive line

The Bad

The Bad

Mike McCarthy

BrokenTV

BrokenTV

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (71) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

AndrewInAtlanta's picture

Always bad when your punter leads the "good"

Mike's picture

About time McCarthy gets some of the blame. Too much talent to have another disappointing season and it's in large part to his play calling and other decisions like challenging plays. All those close losses, good coaching wins at least 2 if not more of those.

misterj's picture

OK, I have no issue with you criticizing a coach for his playcalls.. but challenging plays should NOT be part of his job description, period. Do you know how utterly stupid it is that coaches have to challenge plays? Instead of the NFL choosing to pay people to watch in the stands and make sure calls on every play come out correct, they choose to put it on the hands of the coaches who have NO IDEA what happened in tiny windows that require several minutes of tinkering around with different camera angles to maybe get a better idea what happened.
Now, because coaches -have- to make those decisions under the current rules criticizing them for not making them correctly is fine, but to say it's a coach's flaw is absurd... it is not a job that coaches should have to do, it's the job of the fuckin zebras.

misterj's picture

Watch in the BOOTH, rather. Whoops. I don't type well in the morning.

Brando's picture

Agreed. The whole process is made further absurd when they refuse to put it on an even playing field with regards to home stadium replay's. I couldn't believe the reaction of the VP of officiating after the Atlanta game when he said they view that as part of home field advantage. http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/20343/dirty-laundry-update-th... (ESPN North article)

If you are going to institute a review system, make it neutral and do everything you can to make it fair and balanced. Most coaches have enough to do without having to watch for refereeing mistakes. Especially if they can't be fully informed and are penalized for being wrong.

joshywoshybigfatposhy's picture

i completely disagree - effectively challenging calls is a part of being a head coach these days in the nfl - that is a reality and no excuse of "it shouldn't be my job" is warranted. if a head coach can't implement a system whereby they are advised (in a case where they have no time/view of a bad call) to challenge a call, that's their fault. period.

when the league gives you the opportunity to make up for a bad decision, and you fail to do so, that's a YOU problem.

pittpackers's picture

Couldn't agree more. Every opportunity we had, we bobbled, not unlike greg jennings.

Idiot Fan's picture

I would swap MM and the Oline. The Oline was the source of all of our issues today. MM didn't have his best game (which he admitted postgame), but the oline lost us this game more than anyone.

bucky's picture

No one associated with this team was uglier than Mike McCarthy and the coaching staff. Period.

IdiotFan's picture

Why? Did he call the jailbreak-sack play too much? Or the let's-run-the-RB-into-the-back-of-the-lineman play? Or the giftwrapped-INT play? Or the INT-in-the-endzone play? Or the fumble-after-the-catch play?

I'm not even saying MM called a good game, but the reaction against him out here has been out of control.

packeraaron's picture

I agree with this.

Cuphound's picture

Now wait a moment, Mr. Nagler! What is the meaning of this addendum? Is it that your classification of "ugly" is a markedly more restrained than Bucky's classification of "no one uglier" and, you feel you can disassociate yourself from Bucky's "extreme" and "fanatical" position? Or is it IdiotFan's switch of the O-Line and McCarthy's slots that you are endorsing, having reconsidered your initial judgment?

I insist that "Ugly" is a pretty serious and non-fungible category. You can't just play with our sentiments this way. What goes where and what does it all mean?

Moreover, didn't Mike McCarthy <I>give</I> us the zone blocking, geriatric wonder that is the O-Line? How is this "creative" activity over the past four years weighed and measured under your schema for evaluating today's game?

Noble Nagler, the people deserve an answer...

bucky's picture

And I do not. I've been slow to get to this point, because I generally don't think it's good management practice to call for people's heads every time something goes wrong. That said, McCarthy's failure to prepare this team is not only putting this season at risk, but also the team's franchise quarterback. McCarthy is easier to replace than Aaron Rodgers.

400metres's picture

How can you rationally presume that McCarthy is completely responsible for the historically awful performance of his Offensive roster of well-compensated professional athletes?

Is it ever the fault of the players who grossly underperformed yesterday? Are professional athletes ever responsible for motivating themselves to play their best in a game that will greatly impact making the playoffs and potentially winning the Division crown?

I'm sure if McCarthy, among all the other hundreds of hours of gameday prep he and his staff performed, had just remembered to tell Rodgers and Co. that this game was really important, the Pack would have rolled 45-7.

packeraaron's picture

I completely hear what you're saying. And you're right to an extent. The problem is that this is a recurring theme. It's McCarthy's job to kill the trend but the slow starts keep happening - that's on McCarthy.

jack in jersey city's picture

true, but he did call the 4th and 1 play at the end of the game that ultimately lost us the game. there were PLENTY of player mistakes that were made before that (jennings, quarless, rodgers, flynn, o-line, etc...) but we were still in it at the end driving down the field with 2 time-outs and MM blew it with that play call.

misterj's picture

It was a gutsy call. If the OL could have protected Flynn for about .3 seconds longer, Flynn likely wouldn't have rushed it well over the reach of Jennings. It was a good call, he -knew- Jennings would have single coverage deep because it was 4th and 1, thus giving them the best shot at the end zone. We see plays like this all the time, this team. We have a short play planned and a WR running a deep route. Every time it succeeds, it's a good call. When it fails, McCarthy suddenly becomes a terrible coach. He, and obviously Flynn, had a lot of courage to run it... that's all there is to it.

Jayme's picture

I think the difference between McCarthy and a lot of other coaches (and, to some extent, fans) is that McCarthy will often play to win the came (in the voice of Herm Edwards) instead of playing not to lose. You see a lot of his play calls fail magnificently whereas you don't see it with others because he doesn't care how visible a play is, but rather how likely it is to give the desired outcome.

Going for it on 4th down is just one example that TMQ over at ESPN often cites. The historical trends show that going for it on 4th and short is worth a point or two more than punting or even trying a long field goal (obviously this depends on field position). McCarthy knows this and so he does it a lot more than coaches have historically. When it works, you don't tend to notice more than a quick cheer, but when it doesn't work, and the other team gets the ball with decent field position, it is something that every media member and fan questions the coach on afterwards.

Chad Toporski's picture

I agree with this well and was going to post as much until I read it. There's not much McCarthy can do when the offensive line is sucking it up.

How many plays can you come up with don't require any amount of decent blocking by the line?

As IdiotFan said, McCarthy called a BAD game, but the O-line was downright UGLY.

Brando's picture

I would like to say that perhaps he could've adjusted play calling to help ease pressure, but realistically, what can you do when they are able to routinely get pressure with only 4 men? It's not like they were blitzing and leaving holes in coverage. :(

So, yeah, "like".

hyperRevue's picture

I wish I could "like" comments on here.

jeremy's picture

like

Bob In Hudson, WI's picture

I haven't seen our O Line so porous since last year's vikings games when Rodgers was sacked 8 times!

Mike's picture

Placed way too much responsibility on Flynn. The way the d was playing should have tried running it in or using a screen and if that did not work take the 3 and play d. Don't have the kid throwing passes into a crowded endzone. Last drive they have 3rd and 1 and they throw it deep both times. Had they played smart and taken the 3 instead of that int, they would have been in perfect position at the end to take the game 9-7.

Bob In Hudson, WI's picture

The running game was not working at all. Jackson would barely get back to the line of scrimmage before he was tackled. I think the short passes and slants were the key to getting that 4th and 1 conversion. It moved them down the field in 4-6 yard chunks. Why not try it again?

Mike's picture

True it was a great drive but as you get closer to the endzone the area the defense has to cover shrinks considerably. Even if the run was not working at least try it once or at least attempt a lower risk screen pass. Det knew what was coming and simply dropped the lb. The commentator knew where the ball was going before the ball was snapped. If it was Rodgers and he three an int I'd be fine with it but just feel Flynn should not have been in a position to throw on that situation where even a fg would have helped out. Coach played a big part in losing this game but was not all his fault driver didn't look like himself, Jennings never misses those and the o line looked like the 09 line. Blame it on injuries or on TT not making some moves or lack of focus like we saw last year in Tampa. Either way very disappointed as this team has shown the potential to be great and beat anyone, yet may find themselves sitting home watching the playoffs.

Jack's picture

When MM makes a bad decision, particularly at the end of a half or a game, I always wonder what his thought process is. Does he have so-called "brain freezes" where he is paralyzed by inertia and calls plays in an unthinking, reflexive way? Or, is he so fixated on his clipboard with all the given scenarios/recommended plays that he can't think independently? The guy isn't dumb.

misterj's picture

Greg Jennings belongs on the Ugly, not the Bad. He dropped 2 TDs that he otherwise could have. If he bothered to show up this week, we would have squeaked out by only 14-7.

lars's picture

Good point. Jennings looked bored and disinterested the entire game. I should think for $9 million per year we could do better.

A_Lerxst_in_Packerland's picture

Going for a low percentage long pass on 4th &amp; 1 with over a minute on the clock is not gutsy, it's freaking STUPID. Get the damn 1st down and then take the shot. FAIL.

MM's play-calling has cost this team before. He out-thinks himself and fails to consider game situations, refuses to budge from his game plan, and fails to make adjustments.

Sadly, I've come to the conclusion that Jersey Al is correct in his assessment that this team will not make it to the big game with MM at the helm. I saw nothing yesterday to make me think otherwise.

Bob In Hudson, WI's picture

4th and 1 and we throw the bomb! Was Favre calling the plays?

misterj's picture

It's the one position in the game where GJ is guaranteed single coverage and was able to beat the CB he was against. He beat him. Flynn makes the throw and you all call McCarthy a gutsy playcaller. He missed it and you blame McCarthy for being reckless here. Jeez.

IdiotFan's picture

Exactly.

Ron LC's picture

4th and 1 with a little over a minute left in good field position, the game situation dictates the call - Get the Damn First Down. His called was reckless and stupid PERIOD!

misterj's picture

And if Flynn didn't overthrow GJ it would have been a gutsy call for the win, yes.

IdiotFan's picture

If the options were simply to go for the TD or get the first down, of course I would take the first down. But at that point our running game had shown no ability to pick up the needed yards. The last 3rd-and-1 play that we had, the QB and RB ran in different directions. Based on how our line was playing at the time, I think it was the right call. I understand why people are frustrated. For me personally, I like having a coach with some stones, even if it doesn't always work out.

braund-o's picture

What is the percentage for 20+ yard completions? How about with your backup playing? How about on 4th down? See how the percentages keep getting smaller and smaller? That is why you try to pick up the first down on 4th and 1, and play to live another down.

Mike's picture

Well said braund. Mabye if Rodgers was in there it would be ok to call but the risk outweighs the reward. Call a higher percentage play to get the first down and then get the big 5 formation out, spread the d and go deep the next play.

IdiotFan's picture

I hear what you guys are saying, but that decreasing percentage still seems like a better bet to me than trying to run for it (which we sucked at all game) or throwing a slant (which Flynn wasn't doing well). It would have been even more demoralizing to end the game with a TFL on Jackson, Nance, or Starks. I actually like that MM has some balls.

By the way, Braund-o - love the name.

RockinRodgers's picture

We lost to a 2-10 team with their third string QB. On the brink of the playoffs, where we need to win every game. If you can't get your team ready for this game you should be coaching in the UFL. Its beyond ugly. This will be a game that MM might never recover from.

PackersThad's picture

Agreed

t's picture

To be honest we played with a 2nd stringer with no prior knowledge he would be playing. Where the Detroit QB 3rd stringer was prepared and took all 1st string snaps in practice.
Defense played amazing as always.
Can't blame Arod that much, if he completes that Jennings pass his qb rating is near perfect, but since it was dropped and intercepted it dropped to Brett Favre type numbers

Ron LC's picture

Let's not forgive the Dline either. Detroit had 195 yards rushing and the longest run was 17 yards. That means the Detroit Oline was kicking the GB Dline in the ass all day long. Bend but don't break didn't serve GB well yesterday. Cripes, they even stopped their QB from throwing at all in the 3rd quarter.

Glorious80s's picture

Had a feeling this could happen. Detroit played GB hard the last time, as someone had pointed out. They have a lot of early draft round talent and Schwartz is a decent coach. Have a sense they were waiting for this game to make a statement and GB, with exceptions, just wasn't prepared to go deeper to get this. They better bring everything to the table next week or they will be embarrassed, nationally.

cole's picture

Giving up 7 points to one of the better offenses in the NFL is a great performance even if it is bend not break. We should have had 21 points minimum. The offense and MM choked, period.

mel's picture

You blame the O-line but what person is ultimately in charge of drafting and trading player groups.. TT Some falls on MM for giving his input but it was TT that wouldn't pull the trigger on a third round pick on Lynch!! I know you say that NO back can run behind this line.. But I would have like to given Lynch a chance. By far and a way better back then anyone on the roster and IR!!!

IdiotFan's picture

We're still complaining about not getting Lynch? On the year, Lynch has 3.52 YPC with 5 TDs (3 came against Carolina) and BJax has 3.82 YPC with 3 TDs. Since the trade actually went down, Lynch has 3.24 YPC and BJax has 4.17. Why would we give up a third-round pick for something that won't help us. Who are we, the Vikings?

Ron LC's picture

Must agree with your point on Lynch. However, over the last 4 or 5 games the Oline has been deteriorating rapidly and that's in MM's lap. Can anyone explain how Lang got in the dog house? That immobile lard ass, Spitz took College's place before TJ. After a couple series they had to pull Spitz and put in TJ.

You're right, the Oline was the problem, but who is pesponsible for their competence.

MarkinMadison's picture

I was all in for the Lynch trade because I did not think that the Packers could afford to stand pat with what they had at RB. I was right and I was wrong. The Packers could not afford to stand pat, at RB or OL. Remember that just last year this was considered to be one of the worst offense lines in football. A line that was looking at setting records for most sacks allowed. Yes, some of it was Rodgers, some of it was Tausch was really needed (when healthy enough). But somehow in the off-season the media and fans decided that this was now an area of strength. I think that the bottom lines are: (1) Bulaga is a rookie, hopefully he will get better; (2) Sitton looked bad at times yesterday - being the best O-lineman on this line just is not saying enough; (3) College needs to go; (4) for the part of the game where I was awake Clifton looked o.k., but the idea of him being able to be a starter for another year, strikes me as being in the same vein as Brett Farve being a starter for another year; (5) Wells is Wells, he'll never be dominate, but he'll always be o.k. Folks, that just ain't going to get it done.

Ken at UWM's picture

Clifton looked 48 years old yesterday. There's a reason LT is widely-regarded as the second most important position in football.

Pretty simple from here: win out or we're out.

IdiotFan's picture

I've been a little worried about Cliffy lately. He started the season strong, but the last few games have been a disaster for him. If he keeps playing like this, we've got no shot.

Jack's picture

I think Clifton's knees are quitting on him.

Ken at UWM's picture

I'd agree Jack. No fault of his own. Not much tread left on his tires.

MarkinMadison's picture

I disagree, only becuase he started weak. We were talking about whether Bulaga would displace him this year, and then he turned it on around week 4 or so. Can you imagine Clifton going 18 games next year? Yikes. I'm never going to like the idea of an 18-game schedule.

Ron LC's picture

The deterioration of Clifton should be no surprise. Age, multiple knee surgeries and various other injuries have slowed him down to almost stop. They should have had a plan going into the year for this situation. I thougt they did with the combination of TJ and Bulaga. I guess they didn't.

rickybobby's picture

Let's see what next year's line can do...

Bulaga, Lang, McDonald, Sitton, Newhouse
If it works - great... If not - higher draft pick.

The line's performance has really changed my opinion on a lot of things. I've been feeling for a long time that NEXT year was going to be awesome. getting all the hurt guys back, second and third stringers having had a chance to play big minutes this year, etc.

Now I'm not so sure. This OLine is still really bad. I don't care how many skill guys you have (and may I add that the only difference makers they have are Jennings, Finley, and Rodgers) if you don't have a line, you're gonna have trouble.

Add to the line problems the fact that McCarthy is kind of a dolt and I think we may be looking more like the Chargers than the Patriots... a team with "talent" that always seems to be missing that special "something".

I could be wrong though... wouldn't be the first time.

What am I supposed to do with my free time now? Watch the Bucks? Crap.

Glorious80s's picture

Does this mean it's die, as in Super Bowl or die?

lars's picture

R U kidding? That is a HORRIBLE line. Thompson's had SIX years to fix the line he blew up in 2005 and it's laughable that anybody would even consider Newhouse, Lang and the other mid-late round stiffs Thompson has gathered.

Why not pick up Will Whitaker and Juice Coston, Barbre and Jamon Meridith while you're at it.

Ruppert's picture

I can't really fault the D line without Jenkins. We gave up 7 points. Should have been 10 but for a missed FG. If we score 14 points, we win. The D line wasn't dominant, but that's down on the list for me.

NickGBP's picture

Aaron Rodgers should be in the ugly, not McCarthy.

Justin's picture

So how many times has it been this year that McCarthy has been either the bad or the ugly? Just curious, because it seems like quite a few. There's just no excuse what so ever for losing to the Lions. That's five losses this season by a total of 16 points! The bears lost by more points than that in the game against the Patriots alone, yet, the bears are the team with control of the NFC North...not the Packers. I'm sorry, but McCarthy's whole demeanor in the press conference after the Lions Loss just makes me sick. There's no fire, no compassion...just b.s. as to how he did a bad job coaching. C'mon Mike, time to wake up and show some emotion! Key word: E-M-O-T-I-O-N

IdiotFan's picture

I'm guessing five times because, whenever we lose, we always blame McCarthy (though we never give him a "good" when we win).

When I saw McCarthy yelling at the refs after the INT, I thought he would actually get some praise here for showing emotion, but in a different thread he's being criticized for that too.

I'm not saying he's perfect, but he just can't win with this crowd.

PS - how much fire do you see in Belichick postgame conference?

jack in jersey city's picture

"PS – how much fire do you see in Belichick postgame conference?"

not much, but i do see 3 superbowl rings in a display case hanging over his fireplace :)

Justin's picture

I would actually have to place Jennings in the Ugly category. Dropping "two" touchdown passes in a game you lose by four is just plain ugly!

FootballGods's picture

Out of subject, but it's gonna be a HORRIBLE break if the bears don't play the vikes at the metrodome next week. Taking homefield advantage away against a team we NEED to win. HORRIBLE. Get your shit together Minny.

lars's picture

Hoping the Bears choke is silly. You know in your heart the current Packer team isn't playoff worthy.

Now, get Grant and Finley back, get two offensive tackles and a guard, dump Hawk and Harrell, Chillar and Bigby...and MAYBE this team competes next year.

Of course, none of the above will happen and everybody will be crying this time next season, too---if there IS a season.

cole's picture

I think that is a little extreme. We are a playoff team, or do you think that we are no better than whoever wins the NFC west?

jack in jersey city's picture

i've heard a few people say that chicago has a much harder remaining schedule than ours. are you fucking kidding me??? they have to face a crappy, favre-less vikings team, an imploding jets team and then face the mighty packers in the final week. i see them going 2-1 down the stretch and winning the division at 11-5. i also see both the saints and the giants finishing up the season at 11-5. so unless we win out we are basically screwed.

Norman's picture

Get ready to jump back on the MM bandwagon when Flynn beats the Pats at their place next week. Okay, that's not a prediction but if Jenkins plays I say the Pack has a realistic shot, but of course it's more realistic with Rodgers than Flynn.

packeraaron's picture

Jenkins will not be playing.

KurtMc's picture

Getting on McCarthy isn't about one game, its the entire body of work. He does not change or adapt.

Its not one 4th &amp; 1, or 3rd &amp; 2 or no challange or goal line calls, its the entire game planning, play calling extravaganza.

Be honset, even if the 4th &amp; 1 play worked, what head coach, with so much on the line makes that call. Island of misfit play calling.

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