Lions: 18 Packers: 16
The Good, the Bad and the Green Bay Packers.
By PackerAaron
Damarious Randall, Ha Ha Clinton Dix, Justin Perillo
Aaron Rodgers, Randall Cobb, Special Teams
The Green Bay Packers
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Comments (109)
egbertsouse
November 16, 2015 at 08:30 am
Ugly: Mike McCarthy. Refuses to change scheme to fit to present talent. Even without play-calling duties he is still the worst game coach I've seen in awhile.
zoellner25
November 16, 2015 at 09:03 am
amen to that.
WIBoyinCA
November 16, 2015 at 12:09 pm
Why can't McCarthy understand that the offensive line is playing so poorly? When Aaron R. can't get time to throw, gets sacked three or four times a game, and the run games sucks so badly can't he see that the key to solving those problems is to get the O Line to perform better?
Evan
November 16, 2015 at 12:12 pm
"...the key to solving those problems is to get the O Line to perform better?"
And he does that how? What should he be doing that he's now currently doing?
WIBoyinCA
November 16, 2015 at 12:18 pm
Several rookie receivers played well yesterday. Aaron Rodgers last couple of drives were on the backs of those rookies. If the O Line starters don't perform sit them and give the rookie line men a chance. Any lineman worth his salt doesn't want to lose his starting job. I know I didn't when I played years ago. If that doesn't work get a new O Line Coach. A new coach can't do any worse than the current one.
Horse
November 16, 2015 at 03:05 pm
Oh, possibly put in some chip block help, like a fullback or two? Run some two tailback sets? You know, and then possibly toss some screens before there's 5 minutes to go and they're down two scores. Radical, I know, but it's been done before.
Oppy
November 16, 2015 at 06:08 pm
Horse, all those solutions are playcalling solutions.
MM doesn't call the plays anymore, and we have no idea what the overall gameplan going into the game was.
Keep in mind, we saw some screens and there were RBs looking to chip and pick up pressures, so we know those two elements were present in the gameplanning for the week.
Now you have to ask, did Tom Clements fail to call more of those plays, or did Tom Clements call those plays in and Aaron Rodgers either used a check option built into the play to change it, or scrap the play all together and run a completely different one?
Archie
November 17, 2015 at 11:11 am
MM is the HC for chrissakes. The buck stops with MM. The whole team has regressed, at least on offense. This is NOT Rodgers fault. If MM can't fix this offense he needs to be fired so somebody else can. It's that simple. And if the next guy can't get the job done, then fire TT. And if teh next GM can't get us goiing in the right direction, fire the President, Mark Murphy. There has got to be accountability. I don't know what is going on but it looks like MM has lost this team, particularly the offense. The play design has been awful i.e., high schoolish at best. That is on MM - it is his playbook.
Oppy
November 17, 2015 at 05:38 pm
Yes, we should TOTALLY hold Mike McCarthy and Ted Thompson (as a HC/GM tandem) accountable for their cumulative win-loss record of 100-52 (.657 win percentage, only two Head coaches of the last 20 years who have coached 5 or more years have enjoyed a higher winning percentage- Tony Dungy and Bill Belichick, add in Jim Harbaugh if you drop the required years to 4), has averaged the 6th best total offense by yards over the last nine seasons ( five-time NFC North champs (including the last four years straight), and seven playoff appearances including two NFC Championship appearances and a super bowl title over the last nine years.
As far as the high-schoolish play design of Mike McCarthy's playbook, are you suggesting MM re-writes his play book every season? I'm pretty sure that MM and Tom Clements are drawing from what amounts to basically the same playbook for the most part that has been the basis for that top 6 average offense over the last nine years.
I don't know what "holding them accountable" means to you, but it sounds quite similar to biting off your nose to spite your face to me.
Mojo
November 16, 2015 at 03:05 pm
I agree the o-line isn't playing that well this year, but three sacks allowed in 61attempts isn't that bad. And one sack for sure I know Rodgers created when he ran outside of the pocket and couldn't get past the d-lineman.
Keep in mind opponents are very aware the Packers pass first with the running game an afterthought. It's worth the gamble to pin your ears back and go full-throttle after Rodgers. Plus, as we know, ARod has a tendency to hold the ball longer than most. Also, he's run into a number of sacks with happy feet this year.
And keep in mind that at least three of the o-lineman have been playing significant parts of the year with various knee ailments, among other maladies.
It's not so much the pass protection that bothers me, it's the run blocking. Too many times they play on their side of the line.
porupack
November 16, 2015 at 10:45 pm
I disagree when people diagnose the problem as "blocking problems" "Oline problem", "injury problem" "Olivia Munn Problem". Its a strategy problem, simple as that. All other problems came b/c of poor strategy and remedial adjustments. Plenty of teams have weak Olines.
Did you see the opening first series when the Packers came out with quick release passes? That is what they should have done in Denver. That was the first time MM actually inserted a new opening strategy. Its not the 'play-calling' exactly, it the strategy you decide the week before. The play calling then evolves to execute the strategy.
bjkdad44
November 16, 2015 at 11:38 pm
Easier... Way easier... Said than done... Sorry to say...
D Ernesto
November 16, 2015 at 05:59 pm
Ditto. The worst time management guy in football. Never amazes me how the Vikes always seem to have at least two timeouts left at the end of a game that they can use. Mike has no clue
WKUPackFan
November 16, 2015 at 08:45 am
61 pass attempts v. 18 rushes. Adams was targeted a whopping 21 times!
It would be interesting to know how many times AR changed the play. It certainly appeared like there were a lot of 6 and 7 man boxes to run against.
croatpackfan
November 16, 2015 at 08:51 am
Jared Abbrederis - the excellent one!
WIBoyinCA
November 16, 2015 at 12:13 pm
Jared A. had a good game yesterday averaging just under 15 yards per catch. Why did they wait so long to use him? He can be the next Jordy Nelson.
SpudRapids
November 16, 2015 at 12:37 pm
He's not the next Jordy Nelson... Jordy is a special blend of route running/size/speed that most receivers don't have
Mags
November 16, 2015 at 01:07 pm
Not even close.
RCPackerFan
November 16, 2015 at 02:07 pm
'Jared A. had a good game yesterday averaging just under 15 yards per catch. Why did they wait so long to use him? '
This is the question I have been asking. I just don't get it. McCarthy said he has been ready to go for the last couple of weeks. So why has it taken this long to get him a reception? Mostly because they have barely used him. And when they do it seems like Rodgers doesn't look his way.
In this game he had his first catch at 9 minutes in the 2nd quarter. His next catch was at 7 minutes left in the 4th Quarter. Next play another catch. 2 plays later he has his big catch. (there were a few in completions towards Abbrederis in between catches).
The offense moved the ball the best it did all day when they started to use Abbrederis. The offense and Rodgers is at their best when they use multiple players.
Its time they give Abbrederis, Janis and whoever available more playing time.
D Ernesto
November 16, 2015 at 06:01 pm
Abby gets concussions easily and is one good hit from a career ender. He just can't take the NFL pounding. I heard he went out again yesterday with another injury. Ya ain't gonna work.
I do beleive Janis is hated by Rogers and he doesn't want him on the field.
croatpackfan
November 17, 2015 at 03:14 am
What you saying is that he should not play because there is danger to get another concussion? So why is he on the roster if you will not play him? Secret weapon? God knows Packers need all secret weapons now to right the ship. If he will suffer another concussion, lets experts say if his career comes to the end with. We do not know for certain his status and how many concussion he suffered. People tells lies and write lies, even if they are trully believe what they said or wrote.
I appologize if you are expert of some kind that is related to head injuries, but I doubt it is the truth! You know why? Because no experts will give uncertain prognosis just based on the "facts" find on articles written by people who does not know what they are talking about!
Doug_In_Sandpoint
November 16, 2015 at 09:15 am
Abby could be a good. Masthay should get a special mention in the bad. Adams could have been in the good or bad.
The dirt could have been a good if AR had targeted it just one more time.
zoellner25
November 16, 2015 at 10:17 am
Abbrederis will never survive an NFL career.
RCPackerFan
November 16, 2015 at 10:24 am
maybe, maybe not. Either way he played good yesterday.
TommyG
November 16, 2015 at 09:21 am
Good: all of the forementioned plus Abby. He and Perillo made our offense look like it could maybe one day function again.
Bad: you nailed it. I would add targeting Adams 20 times. And the Adams drops. And his complaining. Just add Adams.
Ugly: Our Green Bay Packers.
WKUPackFan
November 16, 2015 at 12:12 pm
As Jersey Al pointed out in the myriad of Gut Reactions comments, Adams had every right to complain. It seemed like every replay showed a GB receiver being blatantly held. Throwing in the no call when Starks was tripped makes for a tough day.
Whether Adams should have complained or not is another issue.
JerseyAl
November 16, 2015 at 01:29 pm
Yeah, but my point was he needed to be more worried about catching the ball than whining to the refs. The Lions took advantage of how the refs were letting the DBs play. Packers DBs should have been doing the same - Instead we have Hayward playing off the receiver on the goal line - never even touched him.
WKUPackFan
November 16, 2015 at 02:26 pm
Sorry Jersey Al, I didn't mean to sell your point short. Honestly, I wanted to bring attention to it since it was a good one and it was buried in all those comments.
Your point is predicated on the fact that receivers were being held. That led to my point about Adams.
D Ernesto
November 16, 2015 at 06:03 pm
Ya and I saw a lot of cry babies who had easy catches in their hands get dropped and trying to blame the defenders. Hey sometimes you got to contend for a ball and catch it.
jbromusic
November 16, 2015 at 11:30 pm
our receivers are soft, are running crappy routes and aren't getting separation. they are ok when the defense plays zone or soft man but when the db's are physical with them, they crumble. cobb and adams need to step up their games ASAP!
croatpackfan
November 17, 2015 at 03:26 am
I'm surprised when crying babies like lot of Packers fans are, complaining about "crying babies" who actualy been under unfair "criteria" of referees. I said immediatelly, that referees can not be excuse, but they were awful. One data - and this one is official. They called 8 penalties all game, 3 (for 35 yards) penalties on dirty, physical team and 5 (for 55 yards) on crybabies. There was mention on that faul on James Startks when he got mad and I will point out that NFL are all about preventing players injuries, so they made illegal hit with the crown of the helmet. That type of hit (with crown of the helmet!) was produced on Jared Abbrederis when he was hit in the back and injured. No flag. Lions are still dirty bags, no matter Dominic Suh left them. Who was injured on Packers side? Ha-Ha (the best D player whole game) and Jared (man who become problem for LIons in the short time!)... They tried that with Perillo, but it was to late for it. Scum bags and referees were on the level of that Fail Mary crew... Nothing less...
WKUPackFan
November 17, 2015 at 06:55 am
It's hard to get to the spot to contend for balls when the route is disrupted at the pivotal break. Physical play is all well and good, but that's not the rules.
RCPackerFan
November 16, 2015 at 09:23 am
Nailed it. I can't argue or add anything different to the list.
This is the worst that I have seen this team play in a long, long time. Its not that they lost. Its how they are losing.
Since this coaching staff is way to slow to make any type of changes. All I can hope is that in the offseason, there will be changes made. Whether thats bringing in more players, or different coaches, something needs to be done.
Tundraboy
November 16, 2015 at 01:46 pm
You nailed it as well.
badaxed
November 16, 2015 at 05:53 pm
are you kidding me. Changes!!!!!!!!!!!Changes!!!!!!!!!!! The pack would have to have a winless season before the "board" would even consider a "change". As long as TT, MM, and "Rogers" are there. we will see "Draft, Develop, Lose, Repeat".
Ibleedgreenmore
November 16, 2015 at 09:32 am
It is for sure the worse game I have seen in 10 yrs for a Packer team. You are playing the Lions and the Packers play like kitties. I am at a loss that no one has any fires in them, I watched a few other games those players really had fire in them its missing in the Packers play.
Big_Mel_75
November 16, 2015 at 09:40 am
I think MM has lost control of his team. I am tired of his refusal to make changes. I am tired of him and TT's lack of talent for this team. Perrillo played well and I don't think he is anything special just image if TT would have gotten a decent TE
Idiot Fan
November 16, 2015 at 09:47 am
If TT had gotten a decent TE, we wouldn't have Randall, or possibly Rollins. Drafting is a zero-sum game, and I'm excited about our future at CB with those two (and I would argue that CB is more important than TE).
BUT, I totally agree that our TE play has been horrible. I think they were expecting RR to make that second-year jump, and he just hasn't. Perillo has showed some nice flashes, though I'm not sure that he looks like a dynamic TE that other teams must account for. I never thought I would say this, but I'm hoping that the return of Quarless injects some life into the TE position. Yes, it's come to that.
Evan
November 16, 2015 at 12:13 pm
Perillo "looks" like the most unathletic guy maybe ever...but he sure had a nice game.
WIBoyinCA
November 16, 2015 at 12:42 pm
Remember the first few games that Jordy Nelson Played? Fans were asking "who is this guy?" People couldn't believe he got open as often as he did or that he was as fast as he is. Perillo and Abbrederis showed some of these same skills. Why have they been on the bench so long? both had very good games while Adams cried about being held.
Amanofthenorth
November 16, 2015 at 11:02 pm
He's awkward. Nature loves novelty. Maybe he can quirk himself into a significant player.
JerseyAl
November 16, 2015 at 01:32 pm
The biggest shock for me last year was how well RR played, because if you read the scouting reports on him like I did, you would have not wanted him on this team. Yet he did well as a rookie, but is now playing to his scouting report.
EdsLaces
November 16, 2015 at 01:34 pm
How is RR getting so much flack? Is he not one of our leading TD catchers ? Our best red zone threat? Would we rather him drop balls in the endzone like 17?
RCPackerFan
November 16, 2015 at 01:45 pm
I said before that we need Richard Rodgers to be a Heath Miller type of TE. They need him for first downs, and in the redzone. He is not a field stretching type of TE.
The problem I have is it seems like the Packers are trying to play him exactly the same way they played Finley. The difference is they are completely different players. They need to get Rodgers back into the more traditional TE role.
Like the olden days when the Packers had Chmura and Jackson. Rodgers would be more like Chmura whereas Finley would be more like Jackson. Coaches need to adjust, IMO.
barutanseijin
November 16, 2015 at 03:20 pm
Because he can't block?
Because he falls over when a defender looks at him?
barutanseijin
November 16, 2015 at 03:18 pm
RR looks good when the defence ignores him. He is competent enough for that. Not everyone is. But hard to see how he merits a third round pick when you can get a guy like Perillo cheaper.
Big T
November 16, 2015 at 09:52 am
This is all part of the BIG plan. Now we can fly under the radar and whoop some azz. We will obviously lose to the Vikings and sit at 6-4. Then on Thanksgiving the transformation begins. It will be lights out for the Bears. It will be a thrashing of epic proportions. 65-17 Packers... They continue to win out and go to the superbowl. And the rest my friends is history
RCPackerFan
November 16, 2015 at 10:05 am
if that happened, I would take it.
Right now, that seems like a fantasy more then reality.
jbromusic
November 16, 2015 at 11:33 am
i'll have some of whatever you're smoking! :)
FrozenTundra
November 16, 2015 at 12:48 pm
LMAO I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if he can get quanity.
Tundraboy
November 16, 2015 at 03:06 pm
Check with Guion
WIBoyinCA
November 16, 2015 at 12:49 pm
You better take two aspirin and lie down Big T! Right now the Pack couldn't beat St. Rita's high school. The line sucks and can't block to protect Aaron or open holes for any of our running backs. The Vikings are going to push the Pack all over the field in Minnesota on Sunday unless the players get some fire in their bellies. The Secondary has played poorly forever and Teddy Bridgewater is going to cut them into little pieces. The way things are going the Pack will be lucky to make the playoffs. Right now the Bears have a better chance than Green Bay does.
cuervo
November 16, 2015 at 10:00 am
Rodgers is playing the worst football of his career, our overpaid, vaunted o-line is playing terrible (all of them), and our receivers are simply not as good as everything thought. Our supposed savior, Adams, can't separation on a 1-7 teams 4th string CB. Our 10mio/yr reciever can't get separation on anyone. Time for a house cleaning people, coaches, players, etc. We aren't as good as many thought and once a ship has turned this far...it's not going to be turned back in the right direction.
porupack
November 16, 2015 at 10:55 pm
Cuervo....all due respect. You're angry and understandable.
But take a breather. There is enough talent. It isn't like its a "bad team". Many below average talented teams over-achieve. Average talent teams can be far above average. And high talented teams (cowboys) far underachieve.
It can be turned around with smart coaching and strategy and preparation down to details on avoiding penalties and clock management, etc.
Now that we're at the bottom, (or soon will be), it gives me hope that the coaches will finally break up the status quo.
scheme, scheme, scheme and majority of the problems you mention are resolved.
TarynsEyes
November 16, 2015 at 10:07 am
There comes a game where categories are useless and this was one of them ...UGLY...no matter who gets a star for a catch, a pass defense etc,....UGLY is a cover all this week.
Gianich
November 16, 2015 at 10:33 am
Does anyone else feel that McCarthy has created in Rodgers what Sherman created in Favre?? Kind of a "QB and then the rest of the team" sort of entitled above the team culture?? It's beginning to feel this way. If this is the case a culture change (staff) is the only remedy...
barutanseijin
November 16, 2015 at 03:28 pm
I could see Rodgers asking out of GB. He seems really pissy towards the coaching staff lately. It took a coaching change to rein in Favre. Maybe that's what it would take with Rodgers, too. Hard to tell.
AZPack
November 16, 2015 at 04:38 pm
You are OUT OF OUR MIND! Lets just call it like it is. Stupidest comment ever!
4thand1
November 16, 2015 at 05:21 pm
Biggest over reaction I've ever witnessed!
porupack
November 16, 2015 at 11:08 pm
Totally agree. Instead of rational diagnostics, we have people dipping into metaphysics and superstition.
Please go to "Dear Abby" if you want to talk about Olivia Munn, and "Aaron doesn't like his playmate JJanis, and Golden boy non-sense. You guys are degenerating a great site. Stay true to the membership and let's analyze football, ok?
porupack
November 16, 2015 at 11:10 pm
I see I may cause confusion here. I totally agree with DanStoda and 4&1....about the stupid comment posted above.
porupack
November 16, 2015 at 11:04 pm
DukeD,
Way over reaction. You're losing your head. You couldn't ask for a better quality guy at QB. Seriously. End this conjecture.
The packers have been in a stale scheme even since last year. Every game this year was not good, despite the score. There were burst, but it was a dull game plan. It finally caught up with packers. Many of us cried for changes before Denver game, but everyone was simply enamored with GB's winning record..."there's no problem as long as we're winning".
But the schemes haven't changed, and opposing defenses figured out how to stop the 1st down run, 2nd down run, 3rd down pass. Once Aaron couldn't find receivers open (bad schemes/route concepts), he starts panicking, gets uncomfortable. He admits after the Caro game he plays scared.
That is all simple as that. A downward spiraling set of problems as a result of earlier problems.
You guys gotta stop your delving into bizarre conjecture like Olivia Munn, and Brett Favre stuff. Get you heads on dudes. Go back to rational diagnostics. Such posts are cancerous.
Gianich
November 17, 2015 at 08:54 am
THe Oline is playing absolutely terrible and it trickles down to RB, QB and WR. Its pretty simple. There are your diagnostics. BUT You guys act like there is no emotional impact or psychological and cultural aspects of football. These guys are professionals and talent is so close from one player to the next on all teams that intangibles like this really come into play at the NFL level. Look at the Patriots, are they that much more talented than the Lions or is there a psychological edge that the Patriots posses based on creative adjustable game planning and a culture of clear expectations created by Bill and Brady?
The Packer's scheme and pig headed lack of adjustments can certainly be creating a negative feeling in the locker room. Not adjusting and expecting Rodgers to throw us into every win with the same routes and concepts can be maddening for players. It's not that far fetched of an idea that dissent is developing due to the same approach. Lombardi was in GB for 8 years before things went south (Unfortunately for 35 years) but keep in mind McCarthy has been in GB for 10 years, in today's ever changing NFL that is unheard amount of time unless you have 4 rings (Billy B) and if you are mundane and predictable in your approach it will pass you by. That's not that hard to imagine, hard to accept for sure but it happens.
Lphill
November 16, 2015 at 10:37 am
BAD - THE OFFENSIVE LINE. The root cause of all the problems , this best ever O line as some said is far from best ever.
Gianich
November 16, 2015 at 10:49 am
Two weeks in a row in crunch time Rodgers gets instant pressure up the middle in his face and smashed by a free rush so he can't step into the game changing throw... THe middle of the line blew it in crunch time 2 weeks in a row. It starts up front, Lphill, and "McCarthy's best O-line ever is a bottom 5 unit that makes below average defenses look great in run defense and can't get their responsibilities straight in pass pro. THEEEEEEY SUCK!
jbromusic
November 16, 2015 at 11:34 pm
i think sitton, lang and bulaga have been very good in the past. the problem is that the injuries have caught up with bulaga and land is starting to show his age. david bakhtiari is an undersized LT and i think he's been out there playing injured and linsley is having a bad year. the big problem is that ted thompson missed badly on sherrod and it looks like he also missed on tretter. the O-line needs a MAJOR overhaul in the offseason!!!
porupack
November 16, 2015 at 11:18 pm
Lphill,
not good enough. We don't go from one of top 4 Olines in 2014 to bad in 2015 with same personnel. This should be perfect case study for a scientific experiement since one variable (personnel) remains constant.
Aside from injuries, can you offer up diagnostic? Could it be schemes/strategies/preparation on assignments and communication? Is it part of larger strategy problems, and related WR routes and lack of pre-snap outlets, screens, slants?
Or did all of these guys just go bad in 2015?
dobber
November 16, 2015 at 10:53 am
Still looking for more info on Abbrederis's injury...all I can find is a nebulous "rib injury". Has anyone seen anything else? There were rumors of a concussion, but I haven't seen anything firm.
Bearmeat
November 16, 2015 at 11:13 am
I didn't watch the game - had my daughter's 1st BDay party. :)
That said, the final score at home against a team we hadn't lost to in nearly a quarter century tells me enough. This team is completely lost. If they don't fix it starting this weekend, heads are going to (and should) roll.
The only thing that gives me encouragement is that in 09 (Bucs), 10 (Lions), 13 (Cowboys 1st half) and last year (Saints), things got MUCH better after rock bottom. MM has turned it around before. He has to do it again.
This Sunday is a must win. I don't care how. Get it done.
dobber
November 16, 2015 at 11:34 am
That's the bottom line. Last week is done...what can you do for us this week?
An (L) at Minnesota makes a divisional title pretty hard...
EdsLaces
November 16, 2015 at 11:22 am
Considering how awful he played last week compared to this week Clinton-Dix deserves to be in an excellent category all by himself. He was such a scapegoat last week. I don't know how many articles I read that pointed a finger straight at 21. Yesterday he was awesome. Run game ...he kept the edge and made no space for the rb. Passing game he saw only a couple completions in FRONT of him and when they were completed they paid the price (obviously ) . And lastly of you guys weren't reminded of the old guy that used to wear 21 when he made that diving interception you had your eyes closed. HaHa I see you bud.
zoellner25
November 16, 2015 at 11:49 am
And Peppers missed an easy tackle on a RB becuase the guys stiff armed him. Who rebounded this week? I love what HHCD brings to this defense.
D Ernesto
November 16, 2015 at 11:59 am
Dix is terribly over rated. Take his interception. He was in a terrible place and got lucky. He let the receiver get behind him in the end zone and was just standing there watching things happen aka the Seattle game where the running back caught the ball standing next to him for a touch down.
Had that ball been thrown higher it would have gone for an easy touch down with Dix watching.
He reminds me of AJ Hawk, always the second or third guy on the pile but rarely the first. Besides he sucks at tackling to. Instead or grabbing the runner by the waist and taking him down, he got dam lucky by grabbing the guys foot. Had that guy broken that grastp, it would have gone for a touch down. He is so freekin over rated by the fans I wonder if they have blinders on at times.
This guy is a bum
zoellner25
November 16, 2015 at 01:07 pm
Are you serious? HHCD broke on that ball just like Sam Shields did to Tony Romo a few years ago. Great read and react by him. In fact, Burnett was in front of the WR too. He's young and makes mistakes, sure. But he's faster than Burnett, has better ball skills and will be a better pro.
EdsLaces
November 16, 2015 at 01:37 pm
Yeah I hope he isn't serious. The kid sucked last week went back to practice ...fixed a few things ..and played lights out this wknd.
computer
November 16, 2015 at 03:08 pm
> He reminds me of AJ Hawk
> he got dam lucky by grabbing the guys foot
He did make the play though, didn't he?
AJ Hawk, you must remember, is the guy who would've given that runner a gentleman's 5-8 yards before even trying to tackle him.
Amanofthenorth
November 16, 2015 at 11:04 pm
Also a ten year starter that forced a grand total of four fumbles.
Razor
November 16, 2015 at 11:49 am
This is such an amazing situation in such a negative way.
All the things we hoped for and expected are a mess.
I want to list each and every thing that is wrong but it's almost everything.
It just doesn't seem possible that it is going this badly.
For me there are two issues: not enough A level players and ineffective coaching.
TarynsEyes
November 16, 2015 at 12:39 pm
".... not enough A level players"...
Been pounding that fact for a long,long,time.
Disregard the Rodgers factor on Offense and Matthews on defense,which appears to be a norm lately,the talent grade of this team is C+ and that can be argued against strongly.
porupack
November 16, 2015 at 11:31 pm
I can't let this go. Sorry, but this is wimpy.
There is more than enough talent, even though I think the 2 positions of weakness have far-reaching effects across this team, and cause a domino effect: ILB and TE.
Weak ILB play is responsible for 3 yard runs being 5-6 yard runs. For giving up 8 yard short passes in middle. For forgetting the RB outlet pass on 3rd - 8. Thus instead of 3 and out, the defense remains on the field. Gets tired, Opposition gets on a roll.
Weak TE; as we well note, the TE is extraordinarily versatile and strategic position that can disguise a run or pass play. But the TE needs to block or catch, and preferably both. Preferably, run fast, or be elusive. Many great TEs are not necessarily 'elite'; Pitta and Olsen, Bennet come to mind. Look how Carolina uses a slight-above average TE such as Greg Olsen. GOlsen wasn't "A player" at Chigo.
Bottom line; it isn't "elite" players. Its how you use average and slightly above average talent.
If you want to continue your line of argument, then explain seattle, cowboys, saints, redskins, philly, bills, browns and dolphins for starters. Then we can go into round 2.
D Ernesto
November 16, 2015 at 11:54 am
There comes a time when we don't necessarily blame the players. In the Seattle fiasco ya. Yesterday no.
My point. If you and I were Vince Lomadi we could not make a slow guy fast, a stumblebum agile. Coaching only can do so much. As Jimmy J says 'you can't coach speed, you draft it".
What I'm saying is, this is not the talented team people think it is. Where are the skill players and how many of them are on this particular team. I can count them on one hand easily. Thus, the team makeup is really of so so players. Some above and some below.
If the ones above play a game like the ones below you get your Denver, Carolina and Detroit games.
Its just that easy.
Dom Capers can only play the guys he's got and Ditto the Offensive coach. This may not be a playoff team but it sure as hell ain't a super bowl team playing badly either.
Razor
November 16, 2015 at 03:10 pm
Ted is responsible for getting the talent.
Coaches are responsible for developing the talent.
Maybe the problem is all of the above.
Wouldn't it be great if the team got a little bit better every year?
What has happened since 2010?
porupack
November 16, 2015 at 11:42 pm
ErnestoD;
Please see my comment above. At the start of the season most effused about this possibly being greatest GB team ever. Now we lose, and suddenly we don't have talent. Clear your head and do some simple diagnostics.
Most personnel from last year is same. Look at Oline; same personnel.
they went from top 5 online in 2014. And sunk this year.
That should be a serious problem to your (I would say erroneous) logic.
It has very little to do with having talent or not. Look at the scheming and whether it kept innovating, or became stale.
I've seen some very average people do way extraordinary things. Very talented people and teams squabble and underachieve.
Please explain cowboys, dolphins, philly, bills, broncos and seahawks and all their acquired talent. How is that working for them?
Do you really believe that NE is so stocked full of all-pro talent? Is Carolina stocked full too?
Think about it....
D Ernesto
November 16, 2015 at 11:54 am
There comes a time when we don't necessarily blame the players. In the Seattle fiasco ya. Yesterday no.
My point. If you and I were Vince Lomadi we could not make a slow guy fast, a stumblebum agile. Coaching only can do so much. As Jimmy J says 'you can't coach speed, you draft it".
What I'm saying is, this is not the talented team people think it is. Where are the skill players and how many of them are on this particular team. I can count them on one hand easily. Thus, the team makeup is really of so so players. Some above and some below.
If the ones above play a game like the ones below you get your Denver, Carolina and Detroit games.
Its just that easy.
Dom Capers can only play the guys he's got and Ditto the Offensive coach. This may not be a playoff team but it sure as hell ain't a super bowl team playing badly either.
Zub
November 16, 2015 at 12:04 pm
How is this the worst game people keep saying, packers layed an egg on a regular season game, worst game in recent packer history is the playoff game against Seattle, the same reasons we lost that game are the same issues the Packers have had for these 3 past losses
Pack204
November 16, 2015 at 02:22 pm
The media was all over Green Bay to cruise to the Super Bowl and everyone got sucked into the hype machine.
We as fans have no idea what it is like to play professional sports and what it is like inside that locker room. I am in the minuscule minority but this team will come out of this funk and silence the critics. Will they win the Super Bowl who knows, I am not worried about that in week 10.
Even New England and Tom Brady had there struggles over the years. The Packers have played at such a high level making the playoffs the last 6 years and winning it all in 2010. It is almost impossible in this day and age to win it all year in and year out. New England went 10 years between SB wins.
It sucks they are playing poorly right now, but I am still going to keep the faith and this team will win vs the Vikings next week and start to peak towards January
WKUPackFan
November 16, 2015 at 03:18 pm
^^Right on!!
Amanofthenorth
November 16, 2015 at 11:07 pm
Hell yes! You bunch of quitters and Cochran firers go back to Minnesota. When the going gets tough and all that. Now is the time for iron and fire. It's winter. You shall see
Amanofthenorth
November 16, 2015 at 11:08 pm
Hell yes! You bunch of quitters and Coach firers go back to Minnesota. When the going gets tough and all that. Now is the time for iron and fire. It's winter. You shall see
Idiot Fan
November 16, 2015 at 06:04 pm
Get out of here with your fancy critical thinking skills and common sense!
porupack
November 16, 2015 at 11:45 pm
:)
Free agent
November 16, 2015 at 03:56 pm
Good: NFL for changing the Distance on the PAT kick, gave Packers a chance.
Bad: Entire team & coaching staff
Ugly: Ted Thomson and his draft & develop philosophy.
Bring in some fair priced veteran Free Agents next year, heck they could have signed Charles Tillman for
(Peanuts) this offseason
RCPackerFan
November 16, 2015 at 11:20 pm
It's not just you. I was about to post the same thing. Looking back at it, the offense has really went downhill after Montgomery got hurt. It reminds me of the year they started planning the offense around Finley until he got hurt.
They haven't won a game since Montgomery has been out either. The offense has looked very out of sync since he got hurt. He brings a lot to the offense. He brings speed, power and also gives the coordinators the ability to be creative.
I think we will see a much improved offense once he does come back. He is the X factor which can give us that one extra player needed to beat defenses.
4thand1
November 16, 2015 at 05:18 pm
Is it just me or did this offense totally tank when Monty went down? It seemed there was someone open when he was on the field and Adams wasn't. This was one of the worst loses I can remember. Looks like GB, Dallas , and the seachickens will be watching the playoffs at home this year. How did they get to 6-0? Every defense is playing them the same and the coaching staff is clueless, WTF! The best part about Sunday was, I was hunting and didn't have to witness the giant turd they laid again. I'm officially on the fire Capers band wagon now, he sucks.
TommyG
November 16, 2015 at 05:40 pm
And would you believe that the defense was the highlight of this game! LOL!
DrealynWilliams
November 16, 2015 at 08:46 pm
You only mention the offense and then say you're on the Fire Dom Capers Bandwagon.
Maybe I'm just crazy, but I don't understand posts like this.
4thand1
November 16, 2015 at 10:38 pm
There's just to much to go into with the defense. No sacks in 3 straight games? We have a young secondary left on an Island. Elliot in the dog house or what? The Packers have been drafting and working on defense for the last few years and have seen very little improvement.
RCPackerFan
November 17, 2015 at 06:15 am
It's not just you. I was about to post the same thing. Looking back at it, the offense has really went downhill after Montgomery got hurt. It reminds me of the year they started planning the offense around Finley until he got hurt.
They haven't won a game since Montgomery has been out either. The offense has looked very out of sync since he got hurt. He brings a lot to the offense. He brings speed, power and also gives the coordinators the ability to be creative.
I think we will see a much improved offense once he does come back. He is the X factor which can give us that one extra player needed to beat defenses.
packersbrewers
November 16, 2015 at 06:27 pm
Good
Ha Ha Clinton Dix-He apologized to Packer fans for getting in a vet's face and he made up for it with his play yesterday. I thought he did pretty well especially after some poor games.
Clay Matthews-He covered pretty well, batted some balls down, and I gave him credit for the hair pull because it was just kind of funny.
Justin Perrillo- Surprise of the day! If this guy can block at all and put forth effort in his play, it's time to sit Rodgers and start this guy!
HM: Damarius Randall-A few times he was caught spun around or on the ground but over all he played well. It's clear Calvin Johnson isn't 100% but he was put on him and covered him up pretty solidly.
Bad
Julius Peppers-He is a leader and a vet and with the team playing as poorly as it has been he should be someone fighting hard showing the young guys how it needs to be done. I thought he played overall pretty poorly. Falling down on a key play in the red zone? Come on MAN! And zero sacks on the QB against an O-Line who typically allows holes semis could drive through is a huge fail.
Aaron Rodgers-We are so used to this guy being lights out it's hard to understand this season long progressively getting worse slump. He doesn't trust his protection or his receivers and it shows. Big time. Whatever his issue is-mental or physical-he needs to fix it. Fast.
O-Line- An ant couldn't have squeezed through the "holes" they attempted to create yesterday. They are getting dominated too often even by bad defenses and that's unacceptable.
Tim Masthay- He has two jobs. Punt. Hold. He didn't do either one well yesterday.
HM: Special Teams. Just a flat out bad time to s*#@ the bed.
Ugly
Mike McCarthy-His whole team is uninspired, flat, slow, passionless, lost....frankly the team is a mess. His stubbornness with admitting there are some significant problems and refusing to make changes to at least attempt to correct those glaring problems is killing them. Staying the course just isn't working and each week it seems to get worse. If this team had played well all year and this game was just one of those "flukes" ok fine move on, but it wasn't. It's a huge red flag. When you are out coached and out schemed by a Jim Bob Cooter you know you have officially lost it.
jh9
November 16, 2015 at 08:45 pm
Thanks for the Jim Bob Cooter reference. A little laughter helps ease the pain.
Oppy
November 16, 2015 at 06:30 pm
Everyone should bookmark this page right now, so we all look back at it after week 17.
The offense is in a horrible funk right now. Many players are playing far below their established level of talent- Linsley, Rodgers, Cobb, Lacy and Kuhn at the top of the list in my opinion- that is undeniable. I don't know if it is playcalling, coaching... whatever it is, something is not right.
What I do know is that a team that has returned virtually all of its starting players and maintained, by and large, the same coaching staff which has produced one of the top rated offenses year after year does not suddenly, in the matter of 4 or 5 games, call for wholesale changes. It does not indicate that our talent isn't what it has PROVEN to be for years. It does not, in any way, shape or form, mean the coaches are inept frauds. There is simply too much data to prove other wise.
Do some changes need to occur? Certainly. Should we hold a fire sale because the team is in a completely anomalous funk? Abso-effin'-lutely not.
I don't know what the future of this season holds for the Packers- heck, we might not make the playoffs for all I know- but I do know that after week 17 when I urge we come back to this thread, a whole lot of you are going to feel foolish about the way you've reacted to this current skid.
I love the Packers, and I'm proud their my team of choice, but I'll be damned if a large percentage of my Green-and-Gold brethren aren't fully satisfied unless they shout and scream the sky's falling, the house is on fire, and 'I told you so'.
Packers go on a huge winning streak, or knock off a top contender, there's 30 posts. Packers hit an ugly rough patch, all the nay sayers turn out and it's 200 posts.
What's it like to know at a young age you wanted to grow up to be a hater?
MarkinMadison
November 16, 2015 at 08:35 pm
I agree with you more often than not. That said, this time, I agree with you. Because you're right. Part of me wants to give into the fire sale mentality, but the smarter part of me says, "wait a second, that is for losers." There is simply no way to explain how poorly they are playing over the last five games, but throwing everything out and starting over mid-season is not the answer. And as I think I more or less posted this morning: Remember folks, even with back-to-back HOF QBs (and yes, with a SB win, a SB MVP and two regular season MVPs #12 will make it), the Packers still had to live through Ray Rhodes and Sherman before they got back to the Super Bowl. There are no quick and easy answers here. There are problems, but chucking the whole organization is not the answer.
Heck someone here even posted we should chuck TT and promote Wolf before he gets hired by the Lions. Let me tell you something, everyone's #1 job is to make their boss look good. If Wolf is so great, then why are you hating on TT so bad right now. I criticize, but I sure don't know that there is anyone out there right now who is better than TT, MM, #12, etc.
DrealynWilliams
November 16, 2015 at 08:51 pm
**bookmarked**
porupack
November 16, 2015 at 11:56 pm
Oppy, Bookmarked. Thanks.
Majority aren't calling for fire-sale. We wished that problems weren't ignored. We saw those problems beginning with game 1. By game 4 the disturbing trends were under the surface but undeniably there, but everyone was enamored with the record and excused it with conjecture (aaron doesn't play nice with Janis) and wishful thinking (we'll be fine).
We like when problems aren't brushed aside and excusing bad performance on all the things we can't control (destiny, injuries, the draft, Olivia Munn blah).
Control what you can with solution-oriented leadership. Then let the other chips fall where they may. That is not over- reaction.
Charvid
November 16, 2015 at 08:47 pm
It's just the pad levels, damn it...just pad levels. We'll fix this!!
4thand1
November 16, 2015 at 10:33 pm
Houston just beat the Bengals in Cinci. WTF is going on?
4thand1
November 16, 2015 at 10:50 pm
Rodgers has 21 td's 3 int's for the year, and a 103.5 qb rating. Brady has 24-3 and Palmer has 23-4. This is a bad year? If we didn't have AR, we wouldn't win a game.
porupack
November 17, 2015 at 12:01 am
For all the flack Mason Crosby got earlier this week,
I read a post that;
1) Detro had only 10 men on the field for the final FG attempt (it actually happened twice in the game).
2) Mason's kick hit Masthay's hand, and lost its spiral and power.
It didn't look like a typical shank. It certainly appeared as a weird trajectory like a partial block, even though no Detro player touched it.
So, seems it wasn't really on Crosby. Anyone else read that?
Thegreatreynoldo
November 17, 2015 at 01:52 am
Yes. One of the commenters on APC has a vine on it. I found it very difficult to tell whether the ball touched Masthay's hand myself.