"And I would expect we’re going to see a team that’s much closer to that one than what we saw in the first Lions game for the rest of this season."

Tim, I would agree with that statement.

I do believe we will see some regression and hopefully more improvement as well. The Lion's games showed us great improvement and gave us an idea just how good these packers can be.

I also do not expect to see us win on Sunday but hope we do look good. (this is pretty much the same take I had against the Lions on Thanksgiving and look how that turned out) In reality, I do feel much better about where the packers are right now than just before the Lions game. Hopefully it doesn't all come down in the game Sunday. We should get some injured players back but not sure how much difference that makes based on how well the healthy players played against the Lions which was pretty unbelievable.

If the defense is playing well and Berry has a good game plan I expect the Packers to have a good chance because it will be a low scoring game. This is one of those games that it will come down to coaching. So I expect the Chiefs to win a close one because their coaches are better than the Packers' staff.

"While I still harbor extreme concerns about Barry, I have certainly been reassured that LaFleur still has a very good handle on this team, despite some pointed flaws he has as a coach."

And THIS is my concern regarding this team and MLF. YES, Matt LaFleur has done a better job the last few weeks and had them playing better. His gameplans seemed much better as well. BUT, he still has several flaws and do we REALLY want a HC with flaws? Perfect is hard to get and maybe LaFleur IS the guy who can lead them to the promised land. But for me personally, I have a LOT of doubt about that. HEY, if they come out and punch the Chiefs in the mouth just like they did to Detroit, then perhaps MLF is starting to GROW with this team and his position as a NFL Head Coach. Better late than never?? I guess we'll find out over this season and next.

Jordan Love...I LOVE what Love has been doing these last 4 weeks. Even those who aren't on-board "The Love Train", HAVE to admit he's been better. MUCH better. I don't care if he develops into one of the "Best Throwers of a Football" like I've heard over and over about AR. I'd more than be happy with a guy who's a great leader, gives you a chance in ANY game, and ALL his teammates would run through a wall for. Yes, Rodgers was/is great. But he also has as many SB wins as Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, or Joe Flacco to name a few...Just saying. There's more to playing QB than throwing though that is pretty friggen important...LOL

I just want to see Love play like he did against Detroit this weekend against the Chiefs and every other team moving forward. Love always talks about consistency, being more consistent as a team and a QB. As long as Love and the rest of these guys are doing that, I think GREAT things are ahead for Love and the Packers.

I keep on seeing people talking about how bad Love was against KC in his first start. That he was a deer in the headlights.

Love's first two drives were shaky as can be, but after that, he continued to settled in and improve with each drive despite constant, harrowing pressure the entire game. He was learning on the job, taking hard lessons. He wasn't efficient- completions were rare as the Chiefs threw the proverbial kitchen sink at Love pressure wise and the OL did not provide protection - but an awful lot of those incompletions were a result of no time in the pocket, no targets open (I challenge Packers fans to point me to a game where a Packers QB faced more pressure in the pocket). What many saw as "off target throws" were not "off target throws." Many were safe, legal throw-aways that actually demonstrated that Love had a firm understanding of the eligible recievers on any given play, where safe throwing lanes existed, and where he could put the ball legally without unnecessarily risking a sack or an INT. Yes, that was often putting the ball at the ankles of a target or even in the dirt 2 yards from an H-Back, TE, or RB that was basically a blocker but eligible. He generally surveyed the field with the often limited time he had in the pocket before being swallowed up by defenders, and then he either got off the spot or safely got the ball out (even if into the dirt.)

It wasn't a good performance from a production standpoint, but there many positive aspects of that performance for a young QB's first ever start on short notice (4 days before a road game- that's literally one or maybe two practices to prepare), in one of the toughest/loudest stadiums to play in, with a gameplan tailored for Rodgers that was never altered.. Love showed poise, pocket awareness and situational awareness, a deep understanding of the play book, some mobility when the pocket collapsed around him, too. He didn't wither under the immense pressure, he actually continued to improve as the game worn on. It was a game that portrayed a player that wasn't ready for the day but had a great deal of promise and tools to work with going forward.

This is going to sound like revisionist history, but that was my take on the day as it happened, and I shared as much here at the time.

I would be thrilled to see the Packers perform at the same level they did on Turkey Day, but that's probably not realistic- that performance was a firing-on-all-cylinders preview of what the future could hold, and I don't think a team this young can be expected to repeat that back to back quite yet.

However, I would like to see them play at a level greater than they performed vs. the Chargers.

The #1 thing I will have no tolerance for regression in, is the needless pre-snap penalties- the mental mistakes, the discipline mistakes. IMO, that was the single biggest factor in Thanksgiving day performance improvement- the Packers weren't lining up in the neutral zone or in illegal formations, they weren't jumping offsides, there wasn't the false starts. They weren't moving backwards making critical 3rd&shorts into 3rd&13. They weren't throwing away defensive stands on 3rd or 4th down before the ball was even snapped. They stayed out of their own way.

I definitely want to see the Packers play a clean game on Sunday. Penalties have been a quiet killer all year long.

"While I certainly am not saying Love will ever ascend to Rodgers’ height in the football stratosphere, there’s already a pretty striking difference between the player in that 2021 Chiefs film and the player we just watched carve up the would-be NFC North champions."

Tim, as Oppy says above, by the 4th quarter of that game, when the Chiefs were playing back a little to protect their slim lead, Love did start to cut them up and mounted a good-looking scoring drive. He came up just short on the last drive or they might have pulled it off.

Weren't there other receivers and players out of that game also? Even #17, I think (but not sure)?

I think the Packers have a good shot at beating the Chiefs, on Sunday. KC has not been clicking on all cylinders, lately, so I see reason to hope the Packers can continue to improve and come away with the victory. We must pressure Mahomes, a lot and cover Kelce, well. Our OL has to come together to protect Love from Spagnuolo's defense. We can do this! GO PACK, GO!!!

This is a very different team offensively to that we saw last year. It’s not merely at QB, we’ve seen a transition from old and slow (Cobb, Lazard, Watkins, TEs) to young and unproven. This roster, Rodgers aside, looked more talented on paper and equally obviously completely unproven outside RB.

As a result, 2 things seemed certain, that we would be a different team in December than August and that it would be true roller coaster. Exactly how we’d be different was the big question.

Would we be able to lean on the run to maintain possession? Would our D prove able to get us off the field and handle runners and particularly when teams had an effective air and ground game. Would the personnel management be more effective without Rodgers and the O more diverse in intent at least?

I’d argue that the coaching aspects have disappointed. The OL is a weak point and seemingly consistent only in its seeming refusal to adjust to play and strengths. That’s despite the further emergence of Tom.

I’d argue that it’s taken 3 months of failure of scripted plays and game plans for LaFleur to actually try aggression and trusting his players till deficits forced it. Our OL remains a joke in the run game and they still fight playing Nijman and Rhyan who it’s clear improve it. They still are irredeemably wedded to Myers.

On D, Gary, Clarke and Smith have been mainstays, but the D is otherwise eerily similar to that of last year. Even in the win against Detroit, we gave up 4.8 YPC and 330 yards in the air.

We are seeing players, when unleashed, flash ability and more often. They are going this despite the continuation of almost everything else we knew had to change. We had seen that, when behind, this O was more effective than playing the system we saw last year and in the first halves and scripted plays this year. That was the difference versus the lions. We went for it and it worked and the Lions melted. It’s a little sad that Love had to campaign to keep that approach pre game.

The players are improving. They are better playing to win on both sides of the ball. It will still be up and down, but aggression put pressure on opponents and increases the chance of completed scores. As Rodgers complained last year, 3 yard gains is a strategy that promises a high probability individual plays but a very low probability of ultimately scoring. When your youth is better let loose than scripted, it shows that the anchor is off the field.

So we may make the playoffs. I think we are making a team, but the true win here and for the future requires us to realize that these coaches are the dampers we need to shed to truly win. Once we stop fighting ourselves, this talented core may really shine.

The Chiefs offense brings all the things that are Packers kryptonite - mobile QB who will run, solid run game and a great TE game. I have less concern about Love doing well as I do about the defense getting swamped. It will be a multi-front war pressuring/containing Mahomes and stopping the run. This game rests with the defense. Where are we at Joe?

I'll be honest in that I think we saw what amounts to a ceiling game for this team against Detroit. Just about every unit played well against the Lions...and that's been hard to get from this team in a single game, so I don't want to take that away from them. I'm still not going to expect it every week, and I certainly don't expect it against KC this week. KC has experienced veteran leadership and good coaching, and they know that the ramp-up for the post-season really starts at Thanksgiving. Even though we've seen some middling games from them, they played well in a tough game against Philly and I'm expecting them to play well on Sunday.

The goals for the Paackers are the same: get better every week. Grow your young core players--especially Jordan Love. He needs to continue to show he's settling in and can be a quality player. Hopefully that translates to wins, but build momentum for 2024. If it turns into playoffs in 2023, I won't complain.

As much as we expected the 2023 Packers to lean on its OL and run game, this is a "pass-to-run" team. That puts a kind of pressure on Love that we hoped wouldn't be there, but he seems to be growing into that. I'm expecting significant changes in the depth chart at both RB and OL for 2024.

"Around the NFCN"

The Bears suck. Monday's game drained hours from my life. I'm glad they beat the Vikings, and I hope they scarf up just enough wins the rest of the way to deflate their draft position and lead them to make more iffy calls in March-May. They ARE going to win a couple games yet. They play just well enough in spurts to occasionally give other teams fits. So long as they don't beat the Packers...

The Vikings have gone from "Dobbs is our savior" to looking at Nick Mullens as a starter when they come off bye. There's a reason why Dobbs was available at the deadline. I think they're better off with the much more mobile Dobbs, truth be told, but Mullens might be better able to distribute the ball with Jefferson coming back if they can protect him. I think they win just enough to be relevant in that last Lions matchup, and that the last NFC WC gets in with a sub-.500 record.

The Lions got "goffed" for the second week in a row...in part because their OL is beat up and hasn't played well. He was bad against the Bears, and he fumbled the game away against the Packers. If he doesn't get on track, they're a .500 team the rest of the way, and Lions fans will be wondering "what happened?"--if they're still paying attention.

"Special Teams"

It wasn't going to turn on a dime...and with Keisean Nixon not getting the opportunities he had a year ago, it's hard to hide the warts. Carlson's recent kicking woes are likely playing into this, too.

"Packers-Chiefs"

I expect a game that won't be all that close. I think 34-17 Chiefs. They're a really good team, and they'll be taking some of last week's loss to Philly out on the Packers. At this stage, Andy Reid knows he's got to get this team humming for January.

Comes down to choices.
If the team chooses to play at a high level, hard nose basic & fundamental blocking and tackling, they will win.
They chose the prevailing entertainment style shit, then they get their heads handed to them.
It's totally this teams choice. Make the right decision. GPG!!

I'm happy for the positive vibes. But positivity without reality is a fantasy only.

The reality is this team is becoming competitive again after a season and a half of 'meh'. What is very encouraging are the players who no one expected much from...like McDuffie and the defensive backs among others. But Green Bay is facing a team Sunday that has it all, especially a defense that takes no prisoners. If the Packers lose Sunday I don't want to read a bunch of carping about how stupid everyone is.

It's a long road back to respectability, but that progress is showing itself. The idea Sunday is to upset Kansas City even if it doesn't happen. But taking a Super Bowl contender to the wire shows this team is not far away.

"Playoffs?" to quote Jim Mora. It's possible but not probable. Even if they make the the playoffs it will likely be a quick exit which is maybe more frustrating than ending the season without the playoffs.

Please, please never again tell me how well the defense is playing, or how Joe Barry called a good game. The same thing happened last year. Everyone knew he would be gone after the season was over. Then, the defense turned it around the last few games, the DB's played tighter coverage, and, to everyone's shock and dismay, Barry was not fired. Barry needs to go. Period. But if he again somehow manages to put together a few good defensive schemes, and, more importantly, if the players continue to improve, he could be retained.
As far as ST's go, I pointed out earlier that the Packers had one of the worst units in the league. At this point, it would seem to point in two directions. First, lack of practice. There is no cohesive group, just a bunch of guys who get together occasionally and try to function as a unit. Second, not getting guys who are specialists, who are in the league because they are willing to take on the dirty and underappreciated tasks on ST's. You get better at what you practice and emphasize.

(and even Joe Barry managed to look like a competent coordinator)

I hate to admit this but that as a good game plan against the Lions. I have to ask though, was it the game plan or was it the players?

Because Clark and Gary basically destroyed the Lions OL, which made things impossible for Goff. So I just have to ask how much of it was Barry and how much of it was on the players?

NFC North -

Bears -
Seeing the Bears win was huge in multiple ways. First it gave the Vikings the loss which helps GB in playoff scenarios. BUT it also helps because it gives them a lower pick in the draft. They will most likely own the 1st pick because of the Panthers. But currently they are 4-8. The same as 2 other teams. There are another 4 teams that are 4-7. They could easily go from the 4th spot they currently own to the 11th spot. Had they lost. they would be 3-9 and in the 4th spot a game a head of 6 other teams.

Lions -
How good are they really?
I only ask this because they got destroyed by us. They barely beat the Bears. Got destroyed against the Ravens. Beat up some other bad teams, and kind of got lucky in the Chiefs game.
So my question how good are they? Good teams don't get blown out. And they don't take beatings more then once.

Vikings -
I'd almost feel bad for the Vikings with losing Cousins, if I didn't have the organization, and fan base glorifying breaking Rodgers Collarbone years ago imprinted into my brain. So F*ck them, Karma's a bitch.

The only reason the packers are doing better.
Is because they "Started to believe in Themselves".
They turned speed into strength.
And the OL gave Jordan Love Time.
The success of OL is on Myers.
If he gets creamed, Love is done for the day.
Myers play has been the key.
It must continue.

The special Teams are about field position.
Regardless where they rank.
They still have not given the game away.

On another thread, I predicted Pack winning 26-24. I took some fair questioning about how we get to 26 points?
Take my prediction for what it's worth: one knucklehead making an optimistic guess!
With that cleared up, here's how we card 26 Pts:
- 2 TD's - one from defense or special teams
- 2 xtra pts
- 4 FG's. Three of which come after arriving at the red zone then sputtering out.
The last coming on a last minute, 3 first down drive after falling behind by one with 1:27 remaining on the clock and only 1 TO.
Don't even ask why we only have one timeout.
Enter Anders (never call me Mason Crosby's replacement again) Carlson.
He boots a 54 yarder as time expires!
That's my optimistic prediction with detail of how it we get to 26.
I think the more appropriate question is how do the chefs get to 24?
Pack 26 - chefs 24!
GPG!

Just two weeks ago, you were all calling for mlf's head and looking for JL's replacement. I suppose after they get crushed by the chiefs you'll be on that bandwagon again. They are not going to make the playoffs, if they happened to pull off that miracle we all know mlf's playoff record. One and done. They should be tanking for a higher draft pick, IMO.

During the preseason I predicted 6/7 wins, but it now looks like we can win 9/10. I thought our wins would be early in the season, over the Broncos, Falcons Raiders, Bears, New Orleans. When we lost to most of them I thought we might win only three or four.
Last week however, I felt strongly we would beat Detroit and I have the same feeling about beating the Chiefs; if the Broncos can beat them, so can we.
If we make the playoffs, I’ll be eating huge amounts of humble pie…and that’s okay.
Go Packers!!!