Hello Wisconsin: It’s Time to Start Learning What We’ve Got
The Packers have competitive action this weekend for the first time in seven months.
By TimBackes
The Green Bay Packers play a football game this weekend.
No, it’s not a “real” game in that it doesn’t count toward the final standings and that the starters will play only a little, if at all for some of them. But the excitement of finally seeing the green and gold back on the field is going to be palpable, and I’m very much looking forward to tuning in and starting to learn a little bit about what we’ve got in this team.
Now, before I get any farther, it is important to note that, yes, I am fully aware that there’s only so much you can learn about a team in the preseason. We’re not going to be able to project wins and losses for the season based on what happens in exhibition action.
However, we are going to learn a bit about our depth and what might be some realistic expectations for the particularly young players on this football team.
The Packers had a joint practice on Wednesday with the Cincinnati Bengals, which is something that’s become a staple of the preseason since Matt LaFleur took over as head coach in 2019. It was fun to see some of the video that game out of the day, and read some of the chirping on social media (it sure appears as though Elgton Jenkins got in some guys’ heads by stonewalling them all day).
It’s a great opportunity for the Packers to get some up close and personal time with a franchise that has been among the best in the league the last couple years and figures to be again this year.
Ultimately, though, there are only so many takes that are going to come out of this weekend’s game that are worth listening to. We’re going to get some nice long looks at depth players, and it’s reasonable to start making roster predictions based on what occurs in the game. But as soon as we start getting into regular season predictions or projections, we’ve jumped the shark.
This is, of course, the nature of social media, and it’s inevitably going to happen, ESPECIALLY if Jordan Love plays and looks less than stellar.
No matter what happens, we’re going to have to realize we’re going into a regular season with a relatively unknown group. So my recommendation: enjoy the first sight of the Packers playing football this year without having to worry too much about what each snap means for each player or the future of the 2023 Packers.
Wisconsin Beer of the Week
New Glarus Brewing Company is best known for its ubiquitous (in Wisconsin) Spotted Cow and its popular IPA Moon Man, but the best beers made by the brewery always come out of its Thumbprint Series, a more limited-edition set of beers that normally are only available in bottles at liquor and grocery stores.
Personal favorites include Wisconsin Belgian Red, Chocolate Stout, Raspberry Tart, Strawberry Rhubarb, and Spotted Cow Grand Cru.
Early this summer, I came across a Thumbprint Series beer I hadn’t seen before: Weizen Dopplebock. The beer is exactly what it sounds like: a cross between a wheat beer/weizen, and a dopplebock.
The New Glarus description reads as follows:
“This colossal dark wheat behemoth clocks in at 18.5°P. Brewed in the Bavarian style of old with 60% malted wheat, double decoction and 100% naturally carbonated in this very bottle. Our very special yeast and open fermentation create the gingerbread, cinnamon and clove snap that bounces off a bouquet of fruity, banana notes from Brewmaster Dan's chosen blend of German, American and Canadian barley. An eccentric indulgence only for our friends in Wisconsin.”
I feel like the dark wheat style goes highly underused and underrated. Three Sheeps in Sheboygan for years made a beer called “Baaad Boy,” which has unfortunately been out of production for some time, but was one of my favorite go-to beers for its flavor and its uniqueness.
At 8% ABV, it comes in right around the range you’d expect for a dopplebock, and it has the taste of a classic German-style brew. Very solid choice for the beer purists out there who are fans of traditional Bavarian style beers.
Unsure if it’s still in production or available in stores, but New Glarus’s thumbprints are often rotational and seasonal. If you see it pop up again, give it a shot!
Feeling Like 2008
As much as I dislike making comparisons to Packers teams of the past, there’s no doubt that there are some pretty hefty parallels between this year’s Packer team and the Packers of 2008.
The most obvious parallel is the beginning of a new era. Aaron Rodgers began his tenure as starting quarterback after three years on the bench, just as Jordan Love is about to begin his tenure as starting quarterback after three years on the bench.
The drama of the 2008 offseason was far more intense. Favre’s arrival via airplane and then showing up in a luxury box during Family Night was an unbelievable scene, like something out of a movie. But of course, there was drama this offseason as well, with all the “when is it finally going to happen” drama between the Packers and Jets. Fortunately that was all resolved LONG before training camp; the specter of Rodgers did not hang over Green Bay when July arrived in the same way Favre haunted Packers training camp.
There’s the sense of wonder as to whether a coach who’s a few years into his tenure will evolve his offense with the new quarterback, and questions as to how much his scheme was truly being run with his previous quarterback who he helped revive.
There’s the feeling of generally low expectations and understanding that it might be a couple years before the Packers are truly contenders again.
There’s the excitement of entering a season without expectations and simply hoping for the best.
I don’t expect much about the actual play on the field to be comparable. I think the Packers have an overall stronger roster in place than that 2008 team did, and I think I was maybe slightly more confident in Rodgers than Love, but that could simply be me talking about this 15 years later and not truly remembering my anxiety about it all.
Ultimately, the key point is this: new eras, new quarterbacks, new energy, new expectations. There’s a lot that feels similar, even among all the differences.
Around the NFC North
As always, it’s time to go around the NFC North.
- The CHICAGO BEARS were most notable this week for having a family fest practice that drew a tiny fraction of what the Packers manage to draw every year, and then for their fans getting really salty online when Packer fans would point that out. If the Packers continue their yearly dominance of the Bears this year, these poor people’s brains might finally and permanently break completely.
- The DETROIT LIONS intend to rest almost all of their starters in week one of the preseason against the New York Giants, so there’s not a whole lot of interest for Packer fans in their upcoming action. I mentioned last week that the expectations are unusually high for this club. To expand on that, it’s really worth nothing that the Lions probably only can go as far as Jared Goff will take them. Goff managed to string together some efficient football games last year, but continuing to reach a more consistent level of strong play is going to be critical if the Lions are actually going to get close to the expectations the national sports media has placed on them.
- The MINNESOTA VIKINGS will also probably not provide much of note in the first week of preseason, as across the league, most starters are not going to be playing much at all. I am interested to see who steps up to be a playmaker aside from Justin Jefferson on this offense now that the Vikings parted ways with Dalvin Cook and Adam Thielen, the latter of whom was admittedly mostly cooked in 2022. Justin Jefferson may have a claim to be the best player in football not named Patrick Mahomes, but he can only do so much if he’s the only guy opposing defenses need to worry about.
Netflix’s Quarterback series a fascinating docuseries
I finally started watching the Quarterback series on Netflix this past week, and I’ve been enjoying it very much. If you’re unfamiliar, the basic premise is that the show’s camera crews and documentarians had pretty incredible and personal access to three quarterbacks throughout the 2022 season: Patrick Mahomes, Kirk Cousins, and Marcus Mariota.
I was kind of skeptical about the choices of players to follow, but the product is fascinating. You’ve got a guy at the top of his game and the top of the league in Mahomes, a guy in Cousins who has been perpetually underestimated and sort of memed, and a guy like Mariota who was sort of on his last chance as a starter in the NFL after having been a second overall draft pick some years back. The differences not just in their personalities but also in the spots they’re in in their careers really makes for a compelling narrative.
Mahomes is every bit as likable as one would expect. The NFL could not ask for a better superstar and face of the game at the moment. There are fans online who have been extremely hard on his family, particularly his wife, Brittany, and his brother, Jackson. Jackson is a turd, true, but the quibbles with Brittany have always seemed rooted in sexism, and she comes across as extremely supportive and refreshingly normal in the series.
Mariota’s story has a feeling of Shakespearean tragedy to it. I haven’t finished the series yet, but if you followed the league last year, you know how his story ends, so watching it all play out through his eyes, it’s tough to watch and you really feel for the guy and start to root for him. He’s a really low-key guy, and it was cool to see how much he leans on his wife for help and support during the season.
Cousins’ content has been perhaps the most surprising. I love to dunk on Cousins like any other Packer fan, but he really comes across great in this series. Again, shockingly normal–perhaps more normal than any other NFL quarterback I”ve ever seen. The series even references this with the way he dresses, specifically bringing up the jokes about his shirts and how he’s “probably drowning in Kohl’s cash.” I’ll still laugh maniacally at every interception he throws and every time he comes up short in the clutch, but his portions might actually be the most interesting and enjoyable in the series.
It’s only like eight episodes and I’m actually watching number five while typing this. Definitely recommend it to fans of the sport and people who would like to see a more behind-the-scenes view of what kind of work quarterbacks put in during the week and how they manage to balance life with their work.
What I’m Watching Against Cincinnati
During the preseason it’s not really worth making predictions about the game, because it’s not the outcome that matters, but the process. So instead, here are the few biggest things I’m watching for against Cincinnati:
- First look at rookies: Great opportunity to get our first look at the Class of 2023. Lukas Van Ness, those tight ends and receivers, etc. This is always my favorite part of the first preseason game–finally getting a look at some of those new faces you’ve been reading about and seeing clips about, but on television.
- Quarterback play: It remains to be seen how much Jordan Love will play, but regardless, I’m looking forward to seeing what happens with the quarterbacks. Sean Clifford and Alex McGough are embroiled in a battle for the number two quarterback slot. Clifford has, by all accounts, performed much better than expected from his college tape, and McGough has made a solid transition from USFL ball to challenge for a backup slot.
- Offensive wrinkles: Are we going to get any kind of sense of what the offense will look like in 2023, and if so, to what extent will it differ from what we tended to see under Aaron Rodgers? It felt like the offense shifted significantly after 2020 to feature less motion and less general inventiveness.
- How long I’ll pay attention: Look, I’ll be honest, I usually hit a wall in the first preseason game. Will I make it all the way to the end? Probably a 50/50 chance.
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Tim Backes is a lifelong Packer fan and a contributor to CheeseheadTV. Follow him on Twitter @timbackes for his Packer takes, random musings and Untappd beer check-ins.
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Comments (79)
NickPerry
August 10, 2023 at 07:04 am
"Offensive wrinkles: Are we going to get any kind of sense of what the offense will look like in 2023, and if so, to what extent will it differ from what we tended to see under Aaron Rodgers? It felt like the offense shifted significantly after 2020 to feature less motion and less general inventiveness."
It wasn't just a "Feeling" the offense shifted after the 2020 season Tim, it DID shift after the 2020 season.
The 2020 season was all about the "Gold Zone" and the offense converting close to 80% of red zone opportunities (76.81%) into TDs. In 2021 that percentage dropped almost 20% down to 57.53%. Even though Rodgers was great in 2021, I NEVER felt this offense was as good as the 2020 offense.
What I remember most about that 2021 season, other than one of the most disappointing playoff losses I can remember, is all the motion, gadget plays, jet sweeps, and other things the offense did the year before in 2020 was GONE! In 2020 once in the red zone it felt as though a TD was automatic. In 2021 not so much...
And then came 2022...SIGH
In 2023 I think ALL that comes back from 2020 and much, much more!
NickPerry
August 10, 2023 at 07:11 am
Here is the rankings for 2020 in the Red Zone...
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct?date=2021-02-08
If you visit the site just look at REGRESSION from 2020 to 2022... Or, if you prefer just look at 2020 to 2021. They still had Adams in 2021 but Rodgers was going to be sure it was ALL his way and it began to really show. Yes he won the MVP but...
Common, we all know...
SicSemperTyrannis
August 10, 2023 at 12:09 pm
NP, will it ALL come back this year, including red zone conversion rate?
I hope to see the creative and varied play calling of a few years back. I remember the first possession being scripted and nearly an automatic TD and buying in to MLF as a freaking genius. I'd love for that to re-emerge as a self evident truth. Personally, I can be persuaded of this even without league best red zone conversion rate this season.
I remember Tonyan being a useful weapon in some situations and I question whether Musgrave has to be better to make an impact. I've seen him catch lots of stuff in ugly fashion from JL10 that would work just fine in regular season games. If he's just as good as Tonyan's best right out of the gate? That would be pretty incredible and so far it doesn't seem far fetched.
There's also a reason many of us are pulling for Goodson at RB; he opens up all kinds of trickery that might just work. I know it's standard to predict most production coming from just a few players and even if that proves true again this year there's still room for depth at the skill positions for new guys to learn a smaller chunk of the playbook that they're solid in which is why I'm also pulling for guys like Melton and Heath. #11 Reed seems to have made his case and we can stop 'pulling for' him as he's being used all over the place and a LOT. Normally I avoid media hype and the first depth chart but in this case it seems inevitably true, Reed's just that good.
So far it seems to me to depend on how deep a playbook JL10 can retain because regardless who's #2, it's a big step back. This is why I think JL needs more than just a few drives in preseason and if he doesn't get it I think it might signal MLF doesn't intend to dip into any such strategy. We're certainly not going to know all this by tomorrow, and I disagree with MM's prognostication that we'll know after 8 games. If JL emerges as obviously our franchise QB before next season that would be great, but if it takes longer that'd be normal. I just hope he avoids throwing into crowds and goes with the high probability play, which could lead to it taking longer to really know what we've got there.
GPG!
Since'61
August 10, 2023 at 07:11 am
I'm hoping for the Packers to make it through the game without any injuries. That is a successful preseason game for me. Thanks, Since '61
TKWorldWide
August 10, 2023 at 07:20 am
Only injury I’m risking is a sprained ankle on the way to the fridge.
LeotisHarris
August 10, 2023 at 08:25 am
Remember to warmup and cooldown, TK. It's a long season and we're going to need you most when the temps drop.
mnbadger
August 10, 2023 at 12:58 pm
With proper pregame preparation - a few stretches and a Stocked Cooler at your side - you should be able to make it to half time without injury.
By then, you and other regulars will be able to spend the second half away from the action, as us 2nd and 3rd teamers take on the burden of the second half snaps.
GPG!
NickPerry
August 10, 2023 at 07:50 am
The voice of reason...Perfect comment Since '61.
Since'61
August 10, 2023 at 09:43 am
Thanks Nick. I've seen or read about too many preseason performances where this player looks great or this player did that only to see that player released after the preseason or stashed on the PS and never dress for a game.
Sometimes I wonder how much the preseason is about giving the guys who are going to be chucked a chance to put something on tape so they have a chance to catch on with another team.
I fully realize that the Packers need to look at numerous young players this preseason but I also believe that the coaches already know 40-45 of the players who are going to make the final 53. The remaining positions are going to go to either late round picks or UDFAs. It's just a matter of how much Gute wants to churn the bottom 10-15% of the roster.
OL and Safety are where the major questions remain in terms of who will be starters and who will be depth players.
The receiving corps is young but we know Reed, Musgrave and Kraft will make the team. Watson, Doubs, Reed and Toure are WR locks barring injury. Depending on how many WRs the Packers decide to keep on the 53 will determine who among Dupose, Heath, Melton, and Wicks will make the team. The rest of the WRs in camp are probably camp fodder barring injury.
Some guys will stick as part of the STs.
Bottom line for me is that if the Packers get through the preseason without injuries they can set their starters and Special teamers to start the season. Once the team has injuries, even in preseason, everything begins to get moved around including who plays on STs and who are the next men up for the starters on Offense and Defense.
All this commenting on building cohesion and timing during preseason goes out the window with the Week 1 opening kickoff because the regular season games are played at a different speed and intensity than the preseason games. 41% of the players who play in preseason games will be out of the league by Week 1 of the regular season or will be on their team's PS. The majority of preseason snaps go to the team's second and third stringers in an attempt to get them prepared to back up the starters during the regular season.
This season the Packers starters will probably take more preseason snaps than usual due to the youth on the team at so many positions including QB, WR, TE, OL, DL and Safety. However playing those extra snaps against the opponents 2s and 3s will not tell us how ready they are to play against the opponents starters once the regular season begins. If we really want the Packers to be ready for the regular season let's hope they reach that point without any injuries to our roster. Thanks, Since '61
greengold
August 10, 2023 at 10:37 am
Great, time-tested reasonings here, Since'61. Sorry about that "time-tested" part. Oh, to be young again!
Anyhow, this resonates: "Sometimes I wonder how much the preseason is about giving the guys who are going to be chucked a chance to put something on tape so they have a chance to catch on with another team."
I think the Packers do give players on their own internal bubble a last chance to see if they fit. Sometimes you see them playing other positions... with the big give away being they suddenly move up with the 1s.
*Staying as injury free throughout TC/Preseason, and well into the Regular Season will be very important for this 2023 Packers team to realize success. 100% agree.
I think you're spot on with the veteran players holding to their positions, especially on the OL. It was a solid line last season, and we can return literally everyone for another go. I do see maybe one or two changes, namely Tom taking that RT position.
My biggest takeaway at OL is the depth appears to possibly be a strength for a change. On DL? It definitely appears to be a strength for this season, from all early indications. I saw you called out Brooks yesterday. He's been having a good camp. So has Wooden thought. Ford is one to watch, if you're able to view tomorrow night's action. Having quality depth at NT, plus the 3T & 5T could pay dividends all around for our D. Wyatt coming in improved, along with Ford, and the additions of Wooden & Brooks looks very promising for 2023.
Carrington Valentine is looking like highway robbery by Gutekunst, snapping him up at Pick #232 in R7. Wow. I was just thinking last night what a bonanza that could be if he delivers big from that deep in the draft. Getting solid lock down Cornerbacks that late in the draft... Last one to really break through was UDFA Sam Shields. Nice addition. Maybe some other newly added players surprise.
S Anthony Johnson Jr. Maybe he's a gamer?
WR Grant DuBose? Could he actually do it? Most likely PS bound, but, he's been counted out before.
OLB Brenton Cox Jr? Definitely a gamer.
OLB Aaron Mosby? He looks like an all out destroyer. Too!
WR Dre Miller? BIG WR. If the Packers keep 7, maybe he works his way in. They like players like Miller.
Some very interesting talents there, with all 3 preseason games left to be played, to show their wares and compete.
LFG GPG
SicSemperTyrannis
August 10, 2023 at 12:12 pm
Jenkins survived 2 fights and an ejection with no injuries during joint practice, seems like a good sign :)
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 10:27 pm
4 injuries. None to starters but our 2 biggest O linemen and our smallest RB. Hopefully none of that is serious. TE Davis, shins, [ETA: torn ACL. Out for season. On artificial turf.]
stockholder
August 10, 2023 at 07:33 am
Failure is not an option!
Don't be afraid to make changes.
TKWorldWide
August 10, 2023 at 07:47 am
I did that just the other day!
Guy bought gum for 89 cents.
Paid with a dollar.
I gave him 11 cents back.
Boo-yah!
croatpackfan
August 10, 2023 at 07:36 am
It is hard to predict future in every aspect of the life. So, I am not trying to.
But I have hope (not expectation) that Packers this season will "pleasently" surprise many. I hope that all the "negative" reports from bad plays during practices are really trying to test possibilities (most of those bad plays) and not mistakes made by any player.
I see only one problem here. Back up OL. By reports there is significant drop off from starters (barring Nijman). Also, Packers have problem wirh starting center and looks like they did not solve that issue up to today.
I would not like possibility of plan to lean on Jordan Love mobility in the pocket. That trait should be additional not basic capability if we expect to have better than average offense.
Tim, I do not remember your opinion on "Carry the G" beer, and I would like to find out your assessment.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 10, 2023 at 09:00 am
I bought some. It was ghastly.
TKWorldWide
August 10, 2023 at 10:50 pm
Like the bean eating cowboys in ‘Blazing Saddles’??
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 10:28 pm
Mongo love beans!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 10, 2023 at 12:21 pm
I'm not sure our depth at O line is a big dropoff at all. I hope to get a better idea at some more practices. Caleb Jones and Sean Rhyan are emerging, I think Mt Caleb is very under rated as all I've seen him do is dominate. Even after releasing big guys Filiaga and Scaife we still have #63, 77 & 78. Absolute giants and I saw no obvious weak link among them. When Bakh looks small by a group?!?
Also, Gutey's two new additions at C, I expect those are more about PS this season and maybe future depth but there might be pleasant surprises?
TimBackes
August 10, 2023 at 12:32 pm
I enjoyed it. I'm not really a big cream ale person--like I drink it, but I don't seek it out, so it's not something I'd go crazy for. But I thought it was an ideal beer for tailgating or football watching because of its moderate body and ABV, and its drinkable flavor profile.
Definitely not "ghastly" as posted above. Solid, but not personally the kind of thing I generally look for in the beers I most frequently buy.
TKWorldWide
August 10, 2023 at 07:37 am
1. Use of motion
2. Tight end performances
3. Throwing to the middle of the field
4. The safeties
5. LVN
6. Carlson
7. O-line battles
8. Popcorn
NickPerry
August 10, 2023 at 07:51 am
Popcorn? Shouldn't that be Brats or something like that?
TKWorldWide
August 10, 2023 at 08:39 am
That’s before the game.
But you’re right; I might have to reconsider my ramp-up.
All about being ready week one, baby!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 10, 2023 at 12:22 pm
I was told when I moved to WI that the 4 food groups are brats, beer, fish and cheese. Popcorn was not mentioned.
mnbadger
August 10, 2023 at 01:03 pm
Popcorn isn't isolated to GBPker nation or Wisconsin, but more universal, as in National.
Safely fits onto most snack lists if eaten indoors.
GPG!
egbertsouse
August 10, 2023 at 07:39 am
"It was fun to see some of the video that game out of the day, and read some of the chirping on social media (it sure appears as though Elgton Jenkins got in some guys’ heads by stonewalling them all day)."
I read that Jenkins was frustrated because D.J Reader blew up every running play and started punching. Oh my, the GB and Cincy media have a totally different takes on the situation! Do you think they all could be homers?
TKWorldWide
August 10, 2023 at 07:45 am
Not a chance!
There is no room for that kind of thing in journalism.
Now if you’ll excuse me, Bigfoot is knocking on a nearby tree, and I’ve gotta go see what he wants.
😉
Coldworld
August 10, 2023 at 08:29 am
The important takeaway is that they manhandled our interior O line. I also heard that their rushing success was greatest aiming inside the Ts.
I could see some frustration from that, especially since the LB he pancaked then rushed up to swing at him a minute or two earlier.
Reader is a good run stuffer, but word appears to be out on our OL as it started to be later last year. Attack the middle, run or pass.
greengold
August 10, 2023 at 09:01 am
https://youtu.be/DwEEAlc6ynM
Different perspective? Bengal fan video...
Coldworld
August 10, 2023 at 09:18 am
Interesting but not really.
greengold
August 10, 2023 at 09:42 am
Yeah. Fan wonky, but it's got more of the action - which is all I care about, not from the best of angles though. If you look more closely, and watch Myers specifically, I think he bounced back to have a really solid practice. Was able to watch a ton more plays than I've seen in any other video source.
I did like seeing the right side of Caleb Jones and Sean Rhyan working together with the 2s before Elgton went out. Haven't made it to a practice myself yet, but, SST had mentioned how well Caleb Jones was doing, and he wasn't kidding, based on the 11 on 11s I saw here.
Man, Sean Rhyan is a fun player to key on, watching him work. A lot of hustle there.
"Manhandled?" Debatable. Both teams' Ds had the upper hand for much of the practice, which is to be expected this early in camp. Packers O had their way with a better Bengals D, for the most part.
Wish I could have seen our own D a bit more. Tough to gauge with Burrows out. Tomorrow's game, with both teams playing mostly 2s & 3s should shed more light on our depth overall.
Leatherhead
August 10, 2023 at 02:28 pm
"""Manhandled?" Debatable. ...."'''
I think that's a subjective word. Not inaccurate, in this case, but at this point in the season, defenses are usually ahead of the offenses, like you said. Our offensive line is going to be fine by Chicago time. The rest of this is watching guys like Rhyan and Jones, because they just might be the future.
greengold
August 10, 2023 at 02:39 pm
That's very true. I agree completely.
Had my own personal curfuffle, admittedly, trying to figure out stuff I really don't need to. LOL. OMG, it's not easy being me.
Anyhow, I've taken a step back, and yeah, Myers might be supercharged by the new challenges presented recently. Runyan could work his way forward into getting a new extension. All I feel confident in saying at this point is I believe we could be incredibly deep on our OL. Will wait for the results to come in, starting tomorrow night.
Competition is good.
Safeties? They can show so much more in live hitting scenarios like we'll see tomorrow. All 3 games could turn that group around in ways we might not expect. I'm wondering too how Carpenter will look, and how he will be used. Looking forward to seeing this play out.
TKWorldWide
August 10, 2023 at 10:46 pm
You had me at “curfuffle”.
I regret I have only one thumb to give.
(But at least it’s opposable.)
SicSemperTyrannis
August 10, 2023 at 12:26 pm
eg,
I consider it a good sign that #34 Jenkins got in two fights and one ejection with no injury. Further, #69 said he was "right" in at least the first skirmish, which some reports say was a contender for the longest in the NFL. If we sustained no injuries that too is a win, but I never understood throwing punches at a guy in a helmet.
T7Steve
August 10, 2023 at 08:18 am
I don't care what actually happened in practice to set Jenkins off. I'm just glad he reacted. "No more mister nice guy, no more mister cle-e-ean." Let's get in their faces, be mean and nasty.
I'm glad it was a vet setting the tone not letting a youngster get in trouble.
Like '61 says above, no injuries for the youngsters this weekend, just learn.
Since'75
August 10, 2023 at 09:01 am
Yea Steve!...this team has been soft for far too long.
Through the years i remember other teams cheap shotting the Packers and watching no Packers react.
I don't much care if it involves a veteran, or a newer player for reaction. Show me you have your teams back and your not anyone's fool. Play like a winner.
I wanna see reaction. It reflects pride, self and team respect, and most importantly...leadership.
Something we've been lacking, especially on defense for awhile.
blondy45
August 10, 2023 at 03:49 pm
I have been waiting to SEE the new young Packers perform this year. The pre-season games will not show me the true identity of the 2023 Packers but should show me the attitude and drive of the Packers whoever gets to play Friday.
I personally do not want a repeat of last year's game 1 loss to the Vikings. In order to beat this year's Bears team, we need to play more first team offensive & defensive players. The more reps our guys get in the pre-season, even if it is against 2nd or 3rd string units, the better. This is a much younger less experienced roster. Yes, we need to figure out the bottom of our 53-man roster, but we need to get our expected starters for the most part time to work together.
Now is the time to play with intensity. If mistakes happen, now is the time to correct them. The more good plays equal more confidence. The more missed assignments or poor techniques are the time to get them right. FOUR weeks to get ready to show the NFL world that the Pack will not slack! Good times are coming, sooner than later.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 10, 2023 at 12:27 pm
Steve,
I'm advocating violence. Disrupting the opposing backfield is the best opportunity for that I see, but our O line should be FEARED!
Doug_In_Sandpoint
August 10, 2023 at 08:52 am
I’m looking forward to seeing if there really is a difference in team speed. I don’t know what it is, but it always looks like the players ON BOTH TEAMS seem to move much slower during Packer games than other games I see on TV. How is this possible? Thought it could be the Tundra, but I even notice it on fast tracks. It will be so nice to see some truly fast players this year.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 10, 2023 at 12:35 pm
Doug, I blame it on your focus and concentration. This can cause the perception that everything slows down.
I have no idea if that's in any way related to players talking about "plays slowing down for them," especially QBs. I think that's different and refers to their own mental processing ability increasing. I'd hope they start with intense mental focus from day 1.
I do know what you mean though! Attending practice I'm amazed at how effective slower players like Owens can be. Davante Adams is not a burner (4.56) yet continues having a truly great career. I'll say he built that on pinpoint accuracy from AR12 rather than consistently getting wide open, but he got 'er done with Derek Carr too. Somehow.
I do hope to see some of our plays with 4 and 5 receivers using all 4 guys with 4.3x speed running routes at the same time, at least occasionally. What team can cover THAT?
greengold
August 10, 2023 at 02:11 pm
Jerry Rice's 40 Time: 4.71
Coldworld
August 10, 2023 at 05:13 pm
It’s always a good thing to remember that not everyone tests well or plays to their testing. Rice is a classic example of course, but we have Reed who, on limited viewing, seems much closer to the speed the Packers cited on picking him than his combine time. We also have Heath, who consistently separates when his testing suggests he ought not to be able and has been stated to be faster than his times by camp media.
Let’s hope that both are in fact players the league testing mischaracterized. These games should help confirm that.
LambeauPlain
August 10, 2023 at 09:21 am
The OL is as good as the weakest link and the Center is the worst place to break. It can cause disruptions on both flanks, is the shortest D route to the passer to flush/pressure/sack the QB to immediately blow up the play, and dump trash in the run lanes.
I was very much hoping for Myers to have a bounce back year. Is he showing it so far? Still time, but is he more serviceable at G? Seems MLF, Steno and Butkus are only considering him at C.
The Cincy DL is a great test to challenge MLF's claim he will "play the best 5."
Coldworld
August 10, 2023 at 10:44 am
Myers in a game will be very interesting. The more time passes the more I fear we are making the same kind of mistakes on OL as we did last year: clinging desperately to our preferred and ignoring and refusing to test alternatives.
I feel much less good about both this OL and its handling than I did at the start of camp. At least now we get game testing, though it sounds like very few snaps for starters for the Bengals. If that’s the case and Myers looks bad then we have a big problem. If he’s OK, how much do we learn?
For goodness sake test Caleb Jones and/or Walker. We’ve got to have options prepared. I want to see a lot of Rhyan too. If we aren’t going to play Tom at C then we’d better think about signing one. The depth is non existent. I’d move Jenkins, but at this point that depth isn’t a lot better. It seems to me it might be at T, but we don’t seem to want to test that to free Tom.
T7Steve
August 10, 2023 at 10:56 am
I'm worried too.
Maybe, like last season, they'll come out with a surprise starting 5 that we had no idea would be in place.
They better get it right this time. Seems I'm more worried this season than last, because last season we were starting out injured and would only get better. This season they have to get it right out of the gate because if injuries happen it will only get worse.
We can't survive this season with just "average" line play.
Coldworld
August 10, 2023 at 11:27 am
Last season saw some decisions as to Personnel that still make no sense and which we stuck with long after everyone was incredulous. At the same time we all but refused to give Nijman snaps at RT because they feared the transition round t be smooth. … and then rolled him out without any anyway.
Then we did the same with Tom, so presumably that okayed a roll in trying to play Nijman one armed before they put him in. Now Tom is suddenly the RT they favor. Meanwhile we seem to have T prospects that we won’t blood but refuse to really push the competition at C where we don’t. If Myers is our starter and is hurt, how’s plan B looking? Shades of Nijman and RT last year.
Presumably all will be well when the guy they lauded last camp gets healthy: Hanson. Sorry, but I’m starting to think we have got real coaching issues here that haven’t gone away as a result of hindsight. Those issues were visible elsewhere on the team last year. This is looking like a LaFleur issue.
T7Steve
August 10, 2023 at 12:41 pm
I'm hoping LaFleur is sitting back and watching his coaches to see where they're headed, till he steps in and makes the final decisions.
However, continuity isn't flip flopping your starters all over the place. They need to work together. Let the backups do the flipping to see who our best #7 and 8s are.
They know what they have in Nijman and are maybe worried more than they admit about the left. That would be a reasonable explanation for having Tom practice on the right, and when he practices at center, have Nijman over there on the right.
LambeauPlain
August 10, 2023 at 01:24 pm
I keep waiting for evidence that MLF is in CONTROL of the football team and is actively involved with his direct reports. He seems very hands off outside of total devotion to the O and play calling.
What I do see is a HC who seems very timid when it comes to making glaring, needed staff changes. I fear this timidity may indicate an easily intimidated personality who fears conflict, delays making decisions, and is often allows events to force decisions...not vision, mission, strategy and tactics, self scouting to guide the management.
Delegation is fine...but holding people accountable for implementing "The Plan" is more important. My sense is MLF is not involved much in D or STs or critically evaluating his staff.
I hope I am wrong. Yet the evidence is scant since MLF was hired.
ImaPayne
August 10, 2023 at 12:35 pm
I agree but dont blame Myers. The pack have every opportunity to get rid of dead wood. If Meyers fails its because Lefleur let him fail by keeping him.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 10, 2023 at 12:41 pm
LP,
here you have voiced my single biggest concern this year. I do hope Myers is heavier, stronger, AND better this season. There are good reasons to suggest he should be. I still suspect he's our weak link on the O line, and am uneasy about Nijman being benched and Myers starting. I keep repeating to myself that the first draft of the depth chart can be ignored.
I'm hoping someone clearly beats Myers' best at C and attention then turns to seeing if anybody's better than JRJ # 76. Being able to run behind C and RG would open up everything for our offense ...
dobber
August 10, 2023 at 01:19 pm
We seem to forget that this OL rated as a top 5 unit in the passing game last year with all the same players, two of which will be a year further removed from serious knee injuries--and a third who will no longer be a rookie.
The key change is the loss of Lewis who functioned as a third OT playing about 44% of the offensive snaps and running limited routes. They need to be better in run blocking, and my fear is that THIS will be the thing that holds them back.
greengold
August 10, 2023 at 01:35 pm
Football Outsiders ranked the Packers as the 2nd best OL in the NFL overall in 2022.
Packers:
#2 Overall
#6 Pass Protection
#9 RB Yards (4.69)
#18 Power Success (66%)
#2 Stuffed (14%)
#3 Second Level Yards (1.44)
Power Success: Percentage of runs on 3rd or 4th down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the two-yard line or closer. This is the only statistic that includes QBs.
Stuffed Rank: Percentage of runs where the running back is tackled at or behind the line of scrimmage.
Second Level Yards: Yards which this team's running backs earn between 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage, divided by total running back carries.
T7Steve
August 10, 2023 at 02:05 pm
Why couldn't we score more TDs?
I think it shows that stats can be misleading.
I hope our coaches aren't satisfied.
Leatherhead
August 10, 2023 at 06:59 pm
Steve, go back and look at the games and watch how every drive ends. I think you'll find that more often than not, we stopped ourselves. We dropped a pass, we threw incomplete, we took a penalty that put us behind the sticks.........
IMO, once we get into redzone territory, we should have more of a 4 down mentality and concentrate on getting 3 yards at a time. Sometimes, we'll turn it over on downs and miss out on the FG, but other times we'll convert and get it into the endzone for 7.
I'm not into finger pointing, and everybody contributed. And I agree that stats can be misleading.
BAMABADGER
August 10, 2023 at 09:26 am
Excited to see the new & improved, younger/faster Packers. After practice, Bengals Slot CB Mike Hilton commented that GB has a good one in Love. GPG!
mnbadger
August 10, 2023 at 01:13 pm
thanks for the comment Bama, can you link to the comment?
I'd like to see the full context.
An opponent has no reason to sing praise (kiss butt) of a competitor that isn't on the schedule.
It sounds like an honest assessment from a veteran defender.
For my money, that's better than 1,000 insights from any of the countless espn, nfl network, etc's "experts".
GPG!
RCPackerFan
August 10, 2023 at 09:38 am
"New Glarus Brewing Company is best known for its ubiquitous (in Wisconsin) Spotted Cow"
I Love spotted Cow. Soo good!
Feeling Like 2008
It is truly incredible how many parallels there are from 15 years prior. Time is a flat circle.
While its fun to compare the many parallels, I am just interested in how this year goes and moving forward what will our team be like.
Around the NFC North
The CHICAGO BEARS -
"If the Packers continue their yearly dominance of the Bears this year, these poor people’s brains might finally and permanently break completely. "
From what I have seen on twitter they are definitely cracking.
The DETROIT LIONS
"it’s really worth nothing that the Lions probably only can go as far as Jared Goff will take them"
When I see all this hype for the Lions, I just have go back and wonder last year if they overachieved, and if they will not be as good as people are thinking. It starts with Goff.
The MINNESOTA VIKINGS
While Jefferson is great, most teams will double him and force other teams to beat them. It will be interesting to see how they look.
What I’m Watching Against Cincinnati
For me these are the things I'm looking at.
Rookies - Always love seeing how the rookies look in the first game. Its our first true look at what they look like. Who will shine, who will struggle. Who looks like they can contribute immediately to who looks like it may take some time. Its great to see it all. From what we have been hearing, I have heard very good things about Van Ness, Musgrave, Reed, Kraft, Wooden, Clifford, Brooks, Vallentine. I have heard Wicks looks the part but missed some time. DuBose just got started. Carlson has been a little up and down which is to be expected, but looked great on Family night.
Player jumps - Its always great to see who is making the jump. Whether its from year 1 to year 2 or year 2 to year 3. Its always fun seeing who has stepped up.
Positions I will be watching the most:
WR - This one is obvious. With 6 WR's drafted last year and this year, technically 7 if you count Melton, there is a lot of youth. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the 2nd year guys look if they are taking a step. How the rookies look and if they can contribute right away. And who will emerge out of nowhere
TE - This is another obvious one. 2 rookie TE's. They are very intriguing and should be big parts of the offense. I am really looking forward to seeing these guys.
DL - Behind Clark there are some unknowns. But sounds like Wyatt and Slayton are looking really good. As are Wooden and Brooks. I'm excited to seeing how good this DL could be.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 10, 2023 at 12:58 pm
RCP, it is #93 Slaton who is dominating our #1 D line. Nothing against #98 Slayton and I hope he too emerges. A listed 23 pound difference between the two with the projected starter being heavier. Both are 6'4". We have a few other confusing name combinations including 3 Fords.
#9 Christian Watson will remain our #1 WR I think, but he may not get the most targets. I expect his yards per to be high, and hope for lots of TDs. From what I've personally seen I wouldn't be surprised to see more production out of #11 Reed than either Doubs or Toure. Doubs continues to drop, and he still gets lots of targets. Personally I love what I see out of #80 Bo Melton, and not just because he has the fastest official 40 time. He practices HARD, competing fiercely. And wins a lot of his matchups. I think all of it translates to the regular season.
I agree the WR battle will be interesting to see! It makes sense that they pass more than run during preseason games, trying to reduce the risk of injury. It's hard for me to take my eye off the ball to try to see what's going on in the trenches; that's what I hope to focus on. We've got so much depth there! Starting C and RT currently get all the media attention but our talent behind that should be on display with one of our better chances to get a look at them this preseason.
RCPackerFan
August 10, 2023 at 02:20 pm
You are correct. That is who I meant. I just typed the wrong spelling.
I agree about Watson. Watson will likely be getting most of the attention because of his speed.
But i could see Doubs with more targets by the end of the year. Love and Doubs seem to have a good connection.
I definitely think Reed has a lot of targets. I think he is going to be great in this offense!
I a looking forward to seeing Melton. He has speed. I think the competition for the 4th-6th WR is going to be very strong. Toure, Wicks, Dubose, Melton, Heath. Should be fun to see how it shakes up.
Our backup OL definitely need to separate themselves. I am curious to see how they look in the preseason games.
Swisch
August 10, 2023 at 10:00 am
Like the remote outpost of Green Bay going up against the big cities, I root for the regional breweries.
Tim's reviews of local beers entice me to want to move to Wisconsin even more.
In general, there's too much bigness in America when it comes to both government and business.
The average American is being overwhelmed by inhuman behemoths of impersonal bureaucracy, machinery, technology, and commercialism.
All of this supposedly helps to keep prices low for the American consumer, but I'm skeptical that this is mostly a deception, especially in the long run.
In any case, America seems to be a land glutted by cheap quantity but sorely lacking in artisanal quality -- including with beers. Drink less but drink better.
***
As I understand it, even one of the larger-than-life models for American hyper-capitalism, Henry Ford, shrank back from the ugliness of the massive factory complex he ultimately erected in Dearborn called the River Rouge, and retreated into re-creating a literal homage to the pre-industrial past called Greenfield Village.
It seems Ford was horrified by the monstrosity of his own misguided genius.
The craft beer movement of today is hope that America can recover at least some sense economic equilibrium and of with the principles of a traditional outlook that has been called by the awkward name of "distributism" -- which shunned the materialism and monopolism of both collectivist socialism and unrestrained capitalism. I prefer the term "localism."
It's an emphasis on small family businesses of independent ownership through fairer laws unencumbered from the rigging of the system by corporate campaign contributions and lobbying.
To borrow from G.K. Chesterton in paraphrase, capitalism is a good thing when there are many capitalists instead of just a few.
It seems the economist E.F. Schumacher encapsulated the concept in the title of his famous work, "Small is Beautiful."
I'll drink to that.
***
https://www.azquotes.com/author/2799-Gilbert_K_Chesterton/tag/capitalism
T7Steve
August 10, 2023 at 10:31 am
You're preaching to the choir, Swisch.
Only thing you forgot to mention is anything about the Packers. LOL
Swisch
August 10, 2023 at 01:35 pm
It wasn't a huge connection, but I did refer to the affection people have for Green Bay as the one setting left in the NFL (from several in the 1920s, such as Canton, Pottsville, Duluth, and Decatur) that is a smaller city.
In reality, the Packers may be a large corporation these days, but perhaps there's still a little bit left in the franchise that recalls an earlier time of medium-sized America, and even traces of small-town America.
It seems to me that if the Packers are smart, they'll hold onto as much of their undersized, underdog heritage as possible, and do so in sincere, meaningful ways.
***
People say that "distributism" or "localism" is impractical to implement, but the small craft breweries are a sign that there is still room for small businesses to succeed in America (even as the big beer companies yet remain).
So it is that I'm not talking about forcing change but of making things fair for the little guy to be innovative, entrepreneurial, energetic, and independent (through tax codes that favor small businesses, for example).
***
The Packers can be in on this by partnering with small local businesses in Wisconsin as much as possible in various ways.
The NFL can contribute out of its massive profits by at least bringing the manufacturing of its merchandise from overseas to made in the USA.
It could go further by setting up, and subsidizing, new factories in impoverished areas in the inner city and the rural countryside.
The NFL could actually do something productive to help its fans of all colors by providing good jobs that are safe, secure, and family-supporting.
Wouldn't these things be real actions that all of us could root for?
T7Steve
August 10, 2023 at 01:52 pm
"Wouldn't these things be real actions that all of us could root for?"
It sure would be better than the "New World Order".
You might just get the nomination for president (acting) of CHTV.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 10, 2023 at 01:05 pm
Not a knock on Carry the G, just a little trivia on New Glarus:
their brew Two Women is so named because literally two women started the company. Their whole vision is quality ingredients, and few of them; no artificial junk. They're great gals, and a hoot! This aligns with your stated values here, and I share them. The small business remains the backbone of the US, and in its own way the GBP reflects that as the only publicly owned franchise.
Here's to dominance over the next 15 years, and redemption for too few SB wins 🍻
Swisch
August 10, 2023 at 01:39 pm
A toast to your comment, SST!
mnbadger
August 10, 2023 at 01:24 pm
Another NON-GBPkr Side note - my wife and I are heading to SE Michigan next week to spend time with family. The Ford Museum - Greenfield Village - is on one of the places our host is planning to take us. Looking more forward to it now than before.
thank you.
Pkr related: way to go Elgton Who the hell is dj (probably can't) reader a book?
GPG!
Swisch
August 10, 2023 at 02:15 pm
mnbadger, there's a PBS documentary in the American Experience series entitled, "Henry Ford: The World He Created He Longed to Escape."
Also see a biography of Ford by Richard Snow (even just the introduction, which may be accessible at Amazon): "I Invented the Modern Age."
There's a poignancy in the contrast between the perceived progress of the enormous mechanical world of the River Rouge industrial complex and the nostalgia of smalltown Greenfield Village -- as embodied in the person of Henry Ford.
***
The titans of industry and the experts of science can bedazzle us with their technological advances, but it's not enough to determine whether their inventions are going to make our actual day-to-day lives better or worse.
It's for we the people to discern what we should preserve from the best of our inheritance, and what we should integrate from the best of modernity.
To best restore an old house is to meticulously safeguard the features of its old charm, while retrofitting it with state-of-the-art electricity, plumbing, heating, cooling, and appliances.
The only true progress is that which helps us to be happier, healthier, and holier.
***
By the way, that's why many of my comments here at CHTV recall the greatness of the Lombardi Era as relevant for the Packers of today.
There are certain principles and practices that are timeless in building up teams and organizations and even societies.
Times do change, and it's not wise to replicate everything about the championship Packers of the 1960s; at the same time, to not learn the enduring lessons of true winning from our own glorious past of the Packers would be a tragedy.
The Packers of 2023 would do well to look carefully at the Packers of 1959, if they want to approach the success and camaraderie and lasting satisfaction of the legendary but real triumphs of the 1960s.
mnbadger
August 11, 2023 at 05:32 pm
thank you for the recommendation, I'll look it up.
There's so many sides t hford.
GPG!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 11, 2023 at 11:01 pm
Related trivia:
Mr Ford created his automobile to run on hemp, and also biodiesel. Had he stuck to that "the modern age" would be completely different! In 6 months hemp grows so much on this continent that it takes trees 30 years to sequester that much carbon.
Automotive body panels can also be made out of hemp.
HarryHodag
August 10, 2023 at 12:06 pm
The main thing for me is general execution. You expect some sloppiness early on, but as the game progresses does the offense and defense look prepared?
Yes, as the game goes on the 'down the chart' players are in there, but if they play like they know what is going on, that shows good teaching and prep.
The Bengals are a solid squad even without Joe Burrow. Hopefully the Packers will play with solid execution.
Leatherhead
August 10, 2023 at 12:18 pm
Took the words right out of my mouth, Hodag. Let's just look like we've actually practiced for a while and know what we're supposed to do. Let's not have 5 turnovers. Let's not give up long plays on defense.
Reading the reports of yesterday's joint scrimmage, it gives the impression that our line might not be in mid-season form yet. We have 31 days before we play the Bears and it counts.
At this point in the season, the coaches have their preferred lineups and it's more about the backups, because those guys are going to be your starters when injuries hit.
When the down-roster guys are on the field, I like to watch the DBs, because a lot of what they do is not as dependent on other players. I mean, you cover a guy. And these guys are so important, and they're involved in so many high-speed collisions, that if you can find a serviceable guy it's a huge plus. I'm sure we remember getting Sam Shields and Tramon Williams off of somebody else's discard pile, and how many games did they help us win?
SicSemperTyrannis
August 10, 2023 at 01:18 pm
LH,
our S has lots of media buzz about sucking. I make no predictions about how they'll stack up to the league, but from what I've seen so far our best 4 have emerged: Moore Ford Savage and Owens, listed in order of fastest 40 time. This isn't exactly how they're listed on the first depth chart, but none of them are buried. I'd be ok with seeing these on the roster and starting any combination of them. Owens might emerge as our best?
Interesting that Gaines is listed as a slot CB now. I don't see a clear standout behind these 4 but some here like # 36 Johnson and I'll say he looks hungry, which might count for a lot before the season's over.
At CB, #21 Stokes was on the field 7/31 doing individual drills and pushing himself HARD. I'm surprised he's still on PUP, and not on the depth chart. Our depth chart is listed in order of player weight at CB. No surprises with the pecking order there. I think our secondary should be pretty good and agree that it's the depth behind the starters that's SO important to develop and evaluate correctly.
A violent and disruptive pass rush helps everything :)
T7Steve
August 10, 2023 at 01:37 pm
"A violent and disruptive pass rush helps everything :"
A DBs best friend.
ImaPayne
August 10, 2023 at 12:32 pm
In the past, the Packers have had a big anchor to stablilize the youthfulness of training camp: Favre and Rodgers.
With those two you had an offense that would put up points and compete. Everything else would fall in place in good time.
Friday starts a new era and it will be what it will be. Could be good, bad or ugly, we'll know in good time.
Leatherhead
August 10, 2023 at 12:43 pm
""With those two you had an offense that would put up points and compete"""
Largely true. If you've got a returning starter at QB, that helps a lot in training camp.
I'm more of a "if your line is getting guys blocked, then the other things fall into place" kind of guy.
T7Steve
August 10, 2023 at 12:48 pm
"Could be good, bad or ugly."
Is that on Friday too? Hope it's on after the game so I can watch it!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 10, 2023 at 01:24 pm
JL10 has been very much a stabilizing presence, both in the huddle and on the field. The sheer volume and extent of player statements about him says a LOT about this.
He'll play different from #4 and 12, as he should. I find it ironic that one of the most frequent criticisms of AR12 is that he was more concerned with personal stats than team wins; ok so assuming that JL10 never puts up numbers like AR12 will those same people see this as a strength? Lol.
I hope he starts in game manager mode come the regular season.
GeorgeRipley
August 26, 2023 at 03:35 pm
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