By Aaron Nagler on Nov 26, 2012 with 74 Comments
Filed Under: Featured • Good Bad Ugly
Tags: Cheesehead TV Good Bad Ugly • Good Bad Ugly • Packers loss to the Giants • Packers vs Giants
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Those were the exact 3 people that stood out in my mind in the good category. Even though I’m trying not to even think about it.
i agree with the Good… Although Nelson i guess would be good for 1 play. Mostly cuz he dissappeared after that play.
How about 1 for the Bad. Tom Coughlin trying to score another TD at the end of the game when the score was 38-10. I do give props to the defense for holding them out.
But I hope that will motivate the team that the Giants tried to ‘rub it in’. Maybe use that as motivation.
Yeah, what was that about?
Is there something personal going on, about which we know nothing?
My guess is it’s just all about padding the stats in case there’s a tie breaker heading into the post-season.
Only thing I can think of.
And, if that’s the case, I can’t begrudge the HC for going for the points. Take every advantage you can get.
bad,whole coaching staff
Ha I agree. Should be been the Meh, the Bad, and the Ugly
In 2010, MM/AR stopped chucking the ball deep and concentrated on shorter pass routes. The OL was mediocre and they couldn’t run the ball.
So it is now. If they don’t make the same adjustment, their season will not extend past the 1st week of the playoffs.
I actually have faith that the D will improve enough to win games. This, the Saints and the 49ers were the only games that the D has looked flat out awful for any extended action. It’s the offense that has to carry this team.
Fix it soon, or it won’t matter.
Look, I said a couple of weeks ago when Bulaga went down this version of the O-line would struggle against the Lions and Giants. If I figured it out, most of the rest of you probably did too. The Vikings have a pretty decent front seven too, so we can’t take it for granted, but I bet the Packers pull it out. Hopefully, the line will continue to get better every week.
The individuals can certainly play better, but it’s the philosophy that needs to change. The days of 30-45 minute track meets are over with the current personnel. McCarthy and Rodgers need to play more max pass-pro, move Rodgers under center and work the field from the inside out (primary route tree and reads from the middle of the field primary, outside the hashes secondary). 3-5 step drop, ball needs to come out. Expect more close, 60 minute games when you’re not dominating the turnover battle.
The days of isolating your tackles, taking shotgun snaps (4 man rush licking their chops) and holding the ball well beyond your preseason 2.5 second clock (which looks like a passing gimmick at this point) are over. Trying to run Nelson, Jennings, Jones or Cobb up and over the top while outside the hashes will be secondary, you don’t have the time. You have plenty of athletes that can still generate explosive plays, the ball just needs to travel a shorter distance, let them do the work. Take back time of possession, you can’t stress this defense.
Sure, individuals failed, but this team will only go as far as McCarthy and Rodgers take it. It’s no less flawed than the champions from the last 5 years. Adapt or die.
I agree also. To me they have to adapt to what defenses are trying to do. thats what the best teams do.
I felt they had to do run the ball to slow down the pass rush. They didn’t. So why not do more dump off passes to the RB’s on swing or screens.
The way this offense was playing it reminded me of a Mike Martz ran offense, and thats not what anyone needs or wants. When playing teams like the Giants who have a great pass rush, they have to offset that rush with quick throws and allow the receivers to make plays after the catch.
That being said the Giants came to play, Packers didn’t.
What worries me is that in 2 games against elite NFC competition the Packers were outmatched in the trenches on both sides of the ball, but mainly they were outcoached, badly.
The Giants’ offense raped those Capers’ ILB blitzes in the first drive, no other way of saying it.
You’re going to get close games with Capers and the current personnel when you don’t generate turnovers. They missed 3 picks on Manning. There in lays the biggest problem from my perspective: when your opportunistic defense isn’t ‘opportunistic’ they’re not flipping the possessions and time of possession back to the offense. For me, it all goes back to the offense taking back the time of possession by altering the game plan. More touches, wear down the defense, methodical drives. If your defense generates turnovers, it’s a bonus.
I’ve been wondering where the quick slants are at for the last two games. They will still have to go deep enough to keep everyone from rolling up the safeties and clogging the short lanes, but I agree with your concepts.
Move Lang back to his guard spot, and put in Barclay at right tackle, giving him help with tight ends or backs. This screwing around with multiple positions is killing whatever semblance of production our line had. If Barclay isn’t good enough, then find someone else. You kept him for a reason, one more injury and he’s gonna be in anyway.
Yeah, I thought the days of shifting around the entire o-line when an injury occurred were over.
Is Datko healthy?
OR use Barclay/Datko/Van Roten as an extra blocking TE in a U-71 type formation.
We all knew the Giants had a tough Dline. Somebody should have told Mike.
Right Nerd. I thought when the Pack was using EDS as an extra blocker at the TE spot, they had mostly successful plays. Yes, even running plays. Maybe they can come up with a variation of that and have, lets say, Barclay line up as extra blocking RB. As ridiculous as that may seem, they need to do something to pick up the defenders who get through our line unabated.
The good? McCarthy no longer has to worry about maintaining momentum while on top.
GOOD – The Giants
BAD – The Packers
UGLY – Mason Crosby, honorable mention to Marshall Newhouse.
I agree. We would have won the game if Crosby had just been able to make that 55 yarder in the first quarter.
Bring back Clifton. He can still play.
He couldn’t “still play” when he was actually still playing.
Very true about Clifty he was “done” last season, but that hasn’t stopped Saturday from playing this season.
Until we get some semblance of a running game and much better play calling and protection scemes this team is going no where period. Healthy players back on defense will help but this offense is working its way to the bottom of the league.
We defiantly need a major upgrade in the running game. Greene and Starks are below average Backs.They both are falling forward and down after the first sign of contact.
I watched the New Orleans game and I would take any of their Three backs.
Benson isn’t the answer either (washed up)but at least he made the other teams think they had to respect the run.
Thank you Tom Silverstein:
CSS: I sent Aaron an article describing Silverstein’s exact points. If he finds it worthy to put up we can discuss this very thing.
I spent time over at Jersey Al’s place being a bit critical of Rodger’s being too risk averse and almost over-conscious of some throws. Said this:
“People like to say Rodgers has a bit of Michael Jordan in him in terms of the chip on his shoulder. I think he has a bit of Frank Thomas (White Sox) in him when it comes to the overall numbers . Constantly aware of them compared to his peers. Almost half the sacks this year, forcing terrible down-and-distance for all three Packer units to deal with, could have been avoided by throwing it in the dirt. Alternatively, your receiving unit is purportedly among the best in the league. Put the ball up, turnovers be damned.
So yes, there’s a cynical side of me that feels as though Rodgers covets turnover-percentage and completion percentage to his detriment.
Rodgers and McCarthy are very culpable here. They knew the Giants game and didn’t shift to max pro, push Rodgers under center, and play the game between the hashes.” (end quote)
Don’t get me wrong, wouldn’t take any other QB in the league.
What’s so infuriating is that they came into the game with that exact idea. You can see it in the opening drive. Nothing but I formation, run the ball, take your shots.
Once they stopped the Giants on their second possession, it’s as though Mike thought “To hell with the gameplan, I’m going in for the kill!” and suddenly they’re back to a bunch of spread stuff that they never got away from. It’s maddening.
Would love to see Paul’s article.
4 man rush, drop 7 in coverage compiled with no pass rush to speak of, throw in a little inability to run or stop the run and you get a Packer loss everytime. The cover 2 is like alcatraz for Mashed Potato Mike. Make an adjustment. Stop baning your head against the wall! DJ Williams and Finley should have had 4 times as many targets as they did. Cover 2 owns Mashed Potato Mike
Before some of you commit Hari Kari and think the season is over and the Packers suck, let me remind you that the Giants lost to the Bengals 37-13 a couple of weeks ago. The Giants are a good football team with a fierce pass rush but had been struggling. They were coming off a bye week and that made the Giants even tougher. Did the Packers play well? Heck no. They were horrible, had no rhythm and looked like they were sleep walking. My point is that things are never as bad as they seem or as good as they seem. Every week in the NFL is an adventure.
Yup, and the greatest team in the history of football, this years 49ers, also got spanked by the Giants. And the Queens for that matter.
I don’t think the Pack played bad as in hey they can do better but their game was off. Per what McCarthy said.
You saw the O line play there best I’m afraid and that is what it is. The worst O line in football.
This team is what it is, a very untalented team in areas. The passing game is as good as any, when they have the time to pass and run routes.
We have no running game. The linebacking is terrible but the D backs are playing better.
Bottom line the real packers showed up last night.
Ugly: Seeing Eric Walden playing man coverage on Victor Cruz in the slot on the first drive of the game.
What the hell? Capers’ game plan for Cruz implemented on Drive #1 calls for that? He’s their best offensive player (non-Eli) and that’s the game plan?
Shit like that seems to happen several times each game. How are opposing offenses so good at getting insane match-ups like that? I don’t get it.
They motion a back out wide beyond the receiver and the D adjusts by moving the cb onto the back and a lb onto the wr. It does happen every week and it is so frustrating. I blame the 49ers because they killed us with that move in week 1.
Among other things in last nights game that were ugly to me, was the Pack allowing that statue, Eli Manning, to basically go untouched in the backfield. Not only that, he probably had the longest run of his career, when the Packers elected to leave the middle of the D-line wide open. The Bengals showed how shitty he is when you put pressure on him. Extremely frustrating to have to listen to how great he is when he gets to stand in the pocket so long and wait for someone to get open. You would think in today’s NFL such a lack of escape ability would make him a dinosaur, but not against the Packers.
Another thing about the pass-rush. I could easily see CM3 coming back, straining his hammy again, and missing the rest of the season entirely. Something is chronically wrong with his hammies, and unless he gets something like a hammy transplant, I could see where you wouldn’t be able to rely on him throughout his career. The Packers have to figure out how to generate pass-rush without him, else the statuesque QB’s like Manning will end up carving you up.
Hey your wrong. We drafted that flash called Perry and then grabbed that great number 2 pick Worthy. Didn’t you get the memo this pass rush is much improved due to that last draft?
What a joke. Perry will go done as a big bust for the Pack and Worthy is what the analyst said before the draft: a guy who goes missing in games.
PS My wife agree’s with you on Mathews. Perhaps his training over the years developed upper body but left the hamstrings suspect.
Heck If I were him I’d want to sit out more. Woodson all but said he is in no hurry to return. I can see why. Mathews may be thinking the same thing. and what get killed?
Perry will be fine, but Moses is a diamond in the rough.
As for Woody, he can take as much time as he wants, thanks to Casey Hayward.
Eli > “Arrogant” Aaron the Stat Monger..
One good thing that came out of the game for me is, I’ve said all along this is not a talented team. Last night was not an anomaly but rather proved to me what I suspected, this team has a lot of deadwood on it, many due to being poor draft pick choices or acquisitions other teams discarded.
No running game. No O line depth for injuries, and do we have injuries. Linebacker play is horrid. How many people did we try out there and why can’t they tackle.
Ted Thompsons money ball is starting to show now. It caught up with this team last night. I see 4 loses in a row and I pray they don’t have to carry Rogers off on a strecher the way the O line is playing.
The Giants were coming out fresh off a bye, at home. Not unlike when we played the Colts.
That’s a huge advantage for both of those teams.
Aside from that, we played like we did last week v the Lions (as we often do, sadly.) This team has a mental/emotional issue. Not a talent issue per se.
The only position at which we lack depth imo is the offensive line. And quarterback, arguably.
Tramon Williams’ zero effort tackle. Man was that a horrible, horrible play for him.
Erik Walden. He generated no pressure when rushing, looked outmatched in coverage, and any runs his way went for a minimum of 4 yards. He also missed a tackle on the long screen pass. This is the type of game that gets a player cut at the NFL level, and I wouldn’t mind this being the last we see of Walden in Green Bay.
How many 3-4 teams could stand to lose BOTH their starting OLBs?
Walden is a great backup, but he’s not a starter, imo.
+1 to Tramon to “ugly”.
Glad someone else watches football.
Tramon was “watching football” on quite a few plays.
Eli put up a number of lame ducks and intercept-able passes that the young DBs didn’t capitalize on. That’s how to beat the giants. Talk about hiding deficiencies.
I agree this was Walden’s worst game as a Packer. Wouldn’t cut the guy.
For over 50 yrs. ive been a Packer fan..this D is O not working at all..Capers and his D staff must go……Vince Lombardi would say …what the hell are we doing out there…TIME FOR A CHANGE
I think Capers might be an issue, but not the rest of his staff.
Dude can get it done, but sometimes I wonder if he burns out and begins to coast after the first couple years.
His defenses have a reputation in that regard.
Packers played bad. Giants played good. The only question is – can the current Packers personnel beat a team that played like the Giants did today. Even if they were better coached, it looks like they were overmatched – period. So the next relevant question is – will they be able to beat this type of team when CM, Benson, Jennings et al return? I still think the answer is no. But that doesn’t mean that this Giant type team that was hitting on all cylinders will show up every week.
Maybe next year when Bulaga, Perry and the rest return.
The Packers will probably make the playoffs but only luck will get them anywhere near the Superbowl.
“…but only luck will get them anywhere near the Superbowl.”
That’s true for every team that makes the playoffs. Once you make the playoffs, anything can happen. And it’s almost trite to keep bringing it up, but just look at the Giants last year…
I think walden hit his woman harder last thanksgiving than he did Bradshaw on the screen play td.
Moses sells out on every play, look for him to replace Walden when Clay comes back, Walden is back to his old self on containment. I thought the key was on the second series when they mixed the plays so well and Rodgers was just tripped up short of a first down then Hayward dropped an interception he could have scored on, the momentum went south for good at that time. Ted needs to draft a “legitimate” runner at the top of the draft and we need to hope that both Bulaga and Sherrod are healthy, you can’t win a playoff game when you succeed one of every 5 or 6 runs on 3rd and one and can’t protect the QB. It is hard to say, but its time to say wait until next year.
I agree about Moses, but I’m not sure he’s ready to start right now.
I like our RBs though. I honestly thought they ran hard last night, behind a bad Oline.
I’m thinking MM is taking a cue from the 2009 cardinals and Wizenut.
i’ve heard a few people (jason wilde and mark chmura) suggest the same thing saying that MM kept everything vanilla and basically gave up at halftime. i’m 50-50 on this theory though. why risk getting rodgers killed with all of the spread looks and long developing plays behind our crappy o-line? if MM really didn’t care then he should’ve just run on every down! that said, it really did look like nobody really came to play (including mccarthy). that game plan seemed like it was thrown together quickly and not very well thought-out.
I will have to say this. With Bulaga having gone down every year with a health issue except for his rookie season. Then Sherrod still coming off his broken leg from last season. Ted Thompson is going to have to reinvest back into the offensive line if he wants to contend with the Giants and 49ers of the NFC Conference.
i would love to see TT draft 7 or 8 o-lineman in the draft this year. maybe one of them will pan out
Ugly has to include Mike McCarthy. For whatever reason, he is slow to adjust to the defense. Seattle 1st half was a glaring example. Detroit last week MM admitted he didn’t adjust accordingly early enough. The adjustments were late/poor in the Giants game. Why are adjustments so late? I understand trusting the players and seeing if they can rebound, but a brick wall is a brick wall. Does the Pack miss Philbin that much?
u knew they were in for an ass kicking when the Giants had a player only meeting. maybe the Packers should try that once in a while and look at themselves in the mirror and commit to playing physical football! they were a bunch of pussies Sunday night!
i don’t understand why mccarthy refuses to change things up when its not going well. what would have been the harm in putting Lang back at LG sliding EDS to center and putting Barclay/Datko in at RT? i believe Saturday is like Clifton last year…end of the road. have to question the OL coaching also…this has been the weak link for how many years now.
Finley kinda impressed me, he went after the tip. Maybe he is returning to his aggresive self
that was a great play! we need him to be the player he was a few years ago
Aaaahhh…you’re finally figuring out that it is TED THOMPSON who is the problem…and his tightwad…cheap ass ways…
You guys whine about losing an offensive lineman, but ol’ tightwad TEDDYBOY won’t get some insurance by signing an experienced vet of the waiver wire or in free agency…GOOD. The chickens are coming home to roost…
You can’t win Thompson’s way, because eventually you are going to need players who can step up and play if someone goes down…and Green Bay doesn’t have that.
The light bulb is finally starting to go on..eh?
Hell, even Bellichick signs veteran players and gets the most out of them…
Ted is awful…
You really can’t be that deluded? I know you are a fanboy of the Dongslinger – but TT is one of the better GM’s in the league.
Everyone can’t be wrong – and TT is thought well of across the whole NFL community – outside of Hattiesburg, MS.
Further, the proof is in the pudding. GB has won a Superbowl and gone to the 2nd round of the playoffs 3 times in the past 6 years. That’s pretty darn good.
Perspective man. Get some.
Yeah, that STUPID Super Bowl trophy they got a couple years ago and the 15-1 season… I HATE what that nincompooop has done to this team!
You can’t win Thompson’s way
This one line proves what an idiotic troll you really are Pack66.
Ted thomson is a genuise. Mathews,collins,cobb,rodgers,hayward shall i continue? These were all “questionable” picks
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If you are not fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm. — Vince Lombardi
If you are not fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm.