November 2nd, 2009

For the Torch & Pitchfork Crowd

Aaron Nagler in Job Security, Mike McCarthy

I get it, I really do. Trust me, after a game like the one we witnessed yesterday, it is quite understandable to be calling for Mike McCarthy’s head.

But you’re a tad premature.

If this team goes on to make the playoffs, and there’s every chance in the world it could grab a Wild Card spot, that represents progress from a 6-10 season. On the other hand, if we continue to see the same problems over and over and nothing gets fixed this year and they miss the playoffs, yes, I’ll be ready to join the crowd.

But a lot, and I mean a LOT can and will happen between now and the end of the season. This is your team, no matter how much, at this moment, you wish it wasn’t. You simply have to get behind them, warts and all. I’m not happy with McCarthy, but I’m not ready to call for his head yet.

But I’m close.

78 Responses to “For the Torch & Pitchfork Crowd”

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Before the game yesterday, I thought the Packers had a chance for the playoffs, win or lose. Yesterday completely changed my mind. This team isn’t consistent enough to make the playoffs. They just aren’t.
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Looking at the schedule now, the best record I see them escaping the season with is 8-8, and they could EASILY drop to 7-9 or 6-10 again with losses at Detroit(remember, short week and Calvin Johnson will be back) or at Chicago. It’s quite troubling.

Packsmack said in November 2nd, 2009 at 1:19 pm

Our schedule actually sets up nicely for a chance at the Wild Card. Yes we have difficult games vs Pittsburgh, baltimore and At chicago. But we have Dallas at home and San Fran and Arizona are both are winnable (however obviously not cake walks).

Our main rivals for the wild card are :

1) Atlanta : They have difficult games vs NO, @NYG, PHI, NO (again), at NYJ

2) Dallas : we need to beat them period end of story. They also have games against Philly, NYG, SD,NO and Philly again

3) Philly : Dallas twice, San Diego, @ CHi, Atlanta,@NYG, SAN Fran, Denver

4) NYG : San Diego, @ DEN, Dallas, PHIlly, @ MIN

5) CHI : GB, Arizona, SAn Fran, Philly, Minnesota (twice), @ BAL

6) SFG : CHI, GB, AZ, PHI

Playoffs are definately possible and I actually say probable based on our rivals schedules. We are not an elite team, but we are a good team. Lets see how the season plays out

matthew said in November 2nd, 2009 at 1:29 pm

we will make the playoffs, possibly fight NYG or Arizona for the wild card spot, and we’ll play the viqueens again…in minny of course, and that will define how i feel about MM, if he gets beat 3 times by brad chilmolester, then i will as well ask for his head…OFF WITH IT I TELL YA!

alfredomartinez said in November 2nd, 2009 at 1:30 pm

Using my crystal ball I see us finishing 10-6.

matthew said in November 2nd, 2009 at 1:31 pm

There are many people smarter than me that can decide if MM is fit or not to remain the head coach, but I do not believe we will make the playoffs this year. Would love to be wrong. 9-7 (which I think is about the best we can hope for) will not get it done.
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That said, it IS our team and always will be. I will continue to love them no matter what. Getting behind the Pack is simply a given, no matter what happens this year and beyond. I ws a fan in the 70s. Nothing compares to that. If you are too young to remember the 70s – ask someone who does remember. Life is good, believe me

Andrew In Atlanta said in November 2nd, 2009 at 1:32 pm

Honestly – Dallas, San Francisco, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Arizona are all guaranteed losses with this offensive line. There is no argument. All of those teams are good at getting after the QB, despite the fact that none of them have had the opportunity to play the Packers and their 32nd ranked o-line yet. If you believe after watching yesterday’s game that we have a chance to win ANY of those games, it’s going to be a long year for you as a fan.

Packsmack said in November 2nd, 2009 at 1:43 pm

IMO, the only “safe” win left on the schedule is Tampa. Detroit and Seattle are poor but could still pull it out on the day should their injury problems improve.

Dallas, Chicago and Arizona are the hardest to work out given their inconsistencies, which leaves Baltimore, Pittsburgh and 49ers, all of whom could wipe the floor with the Pack given the right opportunities.

Still, (any given sunday and all that jazz) Season ends somewhere between 7-9 & 10-6 when all is said and done.

AdamInEngland said in November 2nd, 2009 at 1:50 pm

To be honest with you, I was calling for Mike’s head at the end of this game. It seems like whenever we have a BIG game…a MUST WIN game, the Packers do not come ready to play from the beginning! It always takes us three quarters to figure it out…and we always come up short.

Why do we keep going over the same issues after every game? There are always the SAME mistakes, and the same adjustments that need to be made. The penalties, the missed field goals, the fact that we keep playing the worse zone coverage I’ve ever seen…Honestly, I’m sick of it. We need to make some changes, and I think it will be coming soon.

PackersThad said in November 2nd, 2009 at 1:56 pm

I am not afraid to be labeled “crazy knee jerk reaction hotheaded” fan. I am not calling for his head because of one bad game. THAT would be a knee jerk reaction.
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The bottom line is the Packers have been a stupid, undisciplined team for a while now. Enough is enough.

IronMan said in November 2nd, 2009 at 1:58 pm

While not officially a member of the pitchfork crowd, I think change is in order. If MM cannot make the necessary adjustments, correct the discipline issues, and get this team playing better, he simply must go. There is only one chance at redemption for this team. Make the changes, make the playoffs and knock the Vikings out of the post season.

In the end, the Vikings will choke and it should be green and gold hands snuffing the life out of the writhing bodies of their smug coach, quarterback, and fans. While I would prefer a script where the Pack dominates all year long, that scenerio will suffice. It might even be more joyous. It must be our biggest goal now.

Doug in Sandpoint said in November 2nd, 2009 at 2:22 pm

I said it on the other thread, I’ll say it here: McCarthy called the worst game in Packer history. He can’t handle it. He has to clean up his act.

Just Pete said in November 2nd, 2009 at 2:56 pm

Don’t worry Pete, he will get it cleaned up….

IronMan said in November 2nd, 2009 at 3:10 pm

As a long time Packer fan (Starr, Horne, etc.,) from VA I feel your pain (e.g. my son and I have driven to Green Bay from VA just to try and be a part of your history). But as much as I hate to say it, I have been writing in the blogs for the last year that this situation was ahead after the Favre debacle. The divorce was for the wrong reasons and the timing stunk. Rodgers could have been held with contract money while waiting on Favre’s inevitable retirement.

Rodgers was always an excellent replacement for Favre and will be if he doesn’t get killed before he becomes a great QB someday! But don’t look for quick help from staff when it comes to QBs. Favre could have been used to draw excellent players to Green Bay as he had in the past, continued to demand respect from defenses and provide years of experience and leadership at a time when GB needs it the most. But the spirit and emotion at GB has become so sadly soiled, distracted and divided due to the actions of the management staff in a series of bizarre decisions about Favre’s ability and future. Favre never changed, he was the same for 16 years, but the new management did not know how to handle him as previous staffs had done so well (and many impatient fans forgot who made them famous once again and brought so much to this team – that includes players, money, titles and popularity). But Favre was no longer good enough. We were told Favre was old and washed up- Now two (2) games, seven (7) TDs, no interceptions, passer ratings over 120, 145 later … GB fans are left to suffer it out.

Favre went where he felt he was loved and wanted… and I still cannot believe that that place was not in Green Bay but a rival team (someone had vision!). The crummy coaching and staff decisions that were reflected in the last two rival games is only an extension of what we saw in the decision making in the summer of 08.

Unfortunately, the wrong personnel left QB in 08 ! Now the consequences must be suffered. Get use to it…Thompson and McCarthy have and they will attempt to lull you to sleep in it.

ps. Quit all that silly booing for your one-time (all time) franchise QB! GB is suppose to be bigger than that! When Thompson and McCarthy are long gone, Favre will come back, retire his number, have his name listed on the wall of fame and enter the HALL OF FAME – and then all that support for the current management will only appear foolish (if is doesn’t already).

greenbaypackerbob said in November 2nd, 2009 at 3:16 pm

Green bay packer Bob,

I respectfully disagreed. Brett did change…. unfortunately it has been this year. When did he ever play so mistake free?? His turnovers was not just a product of McCarthy. Look at his playoff losses under Sherman and McCarthy. He made huge, huge mistakes in St. Louis, Atlanta, Philadeplhia, Minnesota and NY giants post season games. This year he is playing lights out and that is truely amazing. But Brett’s turnovers are not all the fault of someone else.

matthew said in November 2nd, 2009 at 3:29 pm

You make excellent points, Aaron, but my pitchfork is finely sharpened and my torch is oiled. I’m ready to set out on the expedition at any time.

foundinidaho said in November 2nd, 2009 at 3:37 pm

matthew – ditto you nailed it. Put talent with talent and well planned out game you get no errors.

Todd From Minnesota said in November 2nd, 2009 at 3:38 pm

Aaron,
How do you not see this season ending poorly after this game? It’s looking more and more like 13-3 was luck. I don’t see us beating Dallas (b/c we always lose to them, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and/or 49ers/Bears. (we’ll lose one of them)

That leaves us at 9-7. At best. That’s NOT going to get us into the playoffs. I have supported TT and MM for years, and generally think BF is a self-serving-throw-your-team-under-the-bus-jerk, BUT TT’s lack of solid veterans at Safety, Oline, RB, and kickers over the years, as well as the stupid penalties on MM’s teams throughout his tenure leaves NO DOUBT in my mind that changes are needed at the end of this 8-8 year. Big changes.

Bearmeat said in November 2nd, 2009 at 3:39 pm

And further – LOSING TWICE TO THE FAVRE LED QUEENIES IS UNACCEPTABLE! I HAVE NEVER BEEN MORE EMBARRASSED AND ASHAMED TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH THIS GREAT FRANCHISE, AND THAT INCLUDES THE 1980′S!

Bearmeat said in November 2nd, 2009 at 3:40 pm

13-3 was a mirage. Packers only played 3 teams over .500 that year. Rodgers 08′ Packers had 9 opponents over .500. The truth is, the overall talent on that 13-3 team was really not that great.

CSS said in November 2nd, 2009 at 3:48 pm

Bearmeat – Move along if you’re so ashamed and don’t bother coming back. You sound like a 13 year old girl that just got dumped. Emotionally immature and crying like the world is ending. Please, piss off.

CSS said in November 2nd, 2009 at 3:49 pm

Bearmeat ditto – But I’m only ashamed that they allow that type of play in the NFL.

Todd From Minnesota said in November 2nd, 2009 at 4:04 pm

CSS – Amen…… lets wait until after the season to se porgress or lack of progress for the team.

Todd – It pains me to say this but I think you are right. Percy Harvin truely is a special player and his impact should not be diminished. But Favre made every single big play when he needed to. And He has this entire year. Whether it is due to Bevell and Childress (who regardless deserve some credit) or rather Farve himself can probally be debated. But as a long time Packer fan, I don’t ever remember him playing this well, at least in terms of making big plays while STILL avoiding the big mistakes. The interesting point of this, is where was the Favre during the years of ‘99-’07 (playoff debacles). The Vikings are clearly the benefactors of a disciplined Favre…just wish he didn’t wait until he was 40 for that.

matthew said in November 2nd, 2009 at 4:04 pm

Ashamed??? Good Lord some people are over dramatic. Thank God we didn’t have message boards during all those losses in Dallas in the early to mid 90s. Can you imagine all the people ready to run Favre out of town for not being able to win the big game (including in Minnesota). The loss was disappointing. But ashamed? We got beat by a better team. But Minnesota’s offense has about as many weapons as any team in recent memory. A dynamic kick returner who when not scoring points, gives his team excellent field position all day long. A huge, athletic wide reciver with the jumping ability of the best athletes period, arguably the best running back in the league, a very good offensive line, a very good 3rd down back, and a QB who makes big plays and not make mistakes. There is no shame in losing to a better team. We made mistakes and that is frusterating, but it is not like we lost to an average team.

matthew said in November 2nd, 2009 at 4:10 pm

Iron Man,

Count on me as one of the villagers in your pitch fork carrying mob. I’ve heard after every game since game 2 of 2008, that the team didn’t do this or that (MOSTLY PAD LEVELS) and we’ll get that fixed. IT AIN’T BEEN FIXED, IDIOT, I scream over a year later!
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The philosophy of filling in with draft choices as they disgard or lose their veteran players is not working. That’s TT. With the UFA’s and a no-cap year coming up, TT better hope they add 8 or 10 rounds to the draft if he plans to field a team next year.

Ron La Canne said in November 2nd, 2009 at 4:12 pm

Matthew, we won’t lose to an average team because we ARE an average team with an average coach and an average GM. We’ll have an average year (probably 9-7) miss the playoffs, or get bumped out early, and have an average draft. Same old stuff since TT arrived. Nothing changes.

Just Pete said in November 2nd, 2009 at 4:13 pm

The QB is not the problem. Everyone is still caught up in the Favre drama. The Packers have plenty of issues that aren’t QB related.

sunflower100 said in November 2nd, 2009 at 4:20 pm

matthew you’re a wise fan on the wrong side of the Mississippi but you can’t be perfect. Case in point the Vikings are 7-1. That said I’m expecting mistakes out of Favre down the line. But in the past when Favre had something to prove he usually plays remarkably. Examples are the season he had a broken thumb, the game when his father died, 1996 season when Brett Favre broke the Packers single-season record for touchdown passes by throwing 39. When he loses interest is when he falls apart. Hopefully that will be in the summer.

Todd From Minnesota said in November 2nd, 2009 at 4:22 pm

Todd – you only wish he’ll wait for summer. He’ll start to keep you guessing about his level of commitment any day now. He’ll spout off and say something stupid and the media will jump on it. Wait til the Vikings scouting department start putting together their draft board. Let’s see, do we need to draft a quarterback? Oh wait, Brent hasn’t made up his mind yet. And so it goes. . .

keeley2 said in November 2nd, 2009 at 4:36 pm

That is not Favre who won that f*** game… That was the Vikings! Seems like everybody forgot that reality…
The Viks are currently one of the hotest team in the NFL. 2 losses against them are not the end of the Packers world! We have some things to fix up… clearly… but it is not necessary to throw every staff member away!

I like the Rodgers attitude: staying faithful and confident in its teammates. Let’s stay faithful to our team no matter what happens. Favre have turned the page. We have to turn the page now and to focus on new players (arrived after the Favre era) like Clay Matthews that are probably the future of this franchise!

darolls said in November 2nd, 2009 at 4:55 pm

I completely agree with you on McCarthy. Yesterday was a textbook example of how not to be an NFL coach. However, do you know any coaches who haves called every game perfectly. I’m sure even VInce had a few bad games here and there. If Mike makes similar mistakes like this any other times in the year, it will probably be time to go.

PACKERS said in November 2nd, 2009 at 4:56 pm

I love that this site is still on daylight savings time. Packer mistakes continue.

Todd From Minnesota said in November 2nd, 2009 at 5:14 pm

Todd dissappear or most of us will dissappear from this site….

Just Pete said in November 2nd, 2009 at 5:36 pm

Toad, in a previous post’s comment you said Goodbye. Please comply with that statement.

foundinidaho said in November 2nd, 2009 at 5:54 pm

Im on the fire TT bandwagon. Im straight tired of the BS he does every season with little to no FA pick ups. Im not saying he has to throw the bank at everyone but for christs sake do something besides work in the draft! if the queens are going to go after all these difference makers we should at the least stay competitive. Lastnight was an utter embarrassment. I called Mark Murphy today and to say the least I was the 100th call he had taken and it was 10am of angry calling for TT and MM job, he said and Im sure it was scripted that he was looking into things to change

PackerFan4Life said in November 2nd, 2009 at 5:59 pm

Todd can’t help himself. Like his hero, Brent, he behaves like a HS drama queen.

Aaron, to appease all of us in Torch & Pitchfork crowd, couldn’t we just have Coach Campen tossed into the flames? What d’ya say?

Jim in DC said in November 2nd, 2009 at 6:00 pm

You Packer Fans enjoy the wit and spit that gets created from my comments. I will soon be leaving until next year. It was fun as usual. Thanks for the Man wearing Number 4 and also the 2009 season. Without the Great Packer mistakes the NFL would be boring.

Todd From Minnesota said in November 2nd, 2009 at 6:13 pm

This coming off last week’s article about being a tad pretentious to fans? It’s not what is said, but how.

True, we’re still in a wildcard playoff race, but our problems aren’t looking much different than last year– only we have an easier schedule this year. With STL, DET, CLE, TB, DET and SEA he shouldn’t keep his job with an 8-8 record or worse– not in his fourth year.

You obviously need to take it week by week, but do any of us actually expect this mess to be turned around? I just hope we don’t land on the bubble only to put out yet another mediocre, talented team.

Asshalo said in November 2nd, 2009 at 6:26 pm

I was hoping to read something like this from one of these darn Packer blogs. Just let the season play out.

McCarthy said he has been addressing these mistakes in practice, but what was taught in practice just doesn’t get carried over to the real game. Why doesn’t it transfer over well? Probably because the team is so young. Maturity can’t be taught.

Wamzlee said in November 2nd, 2009 at 7:25 pm

You’re right Aaron. This is my team. Now if I could only root for Minnesota, and only get disapointed in the postseason, as opposed to the regular season…

PackersRS said in November 2nd, 2009 at 7:35 pm

todd doesn’t exist.

i just wanted to say – wow. i had my torch and pitchfork reaction last night, but the fact that it’s lasted through today for me – and i’m not an angry-villager kinda guy – i think that means something.

and packerworld has exploded. all the villagers are out, and who knows if it’s just the slack-jawed yokels obscuring the view of level-headed folk with an intense showing, or if this is to be sustained — but i’ll say one thing: the packers better bounce back, and quick.

i hope mccarthy is really a better coach than i think he is, and realizes how badly he needs to stop the bleeding (and does, and keeps his job) — or that he’s totally oblivious, fails horribly, and this time next year, we’re all pumped over how tight coach cower has his team playing. either of those two things would be okay with me.

am i really holding this torch? i really still am. i’ll try to calm down. but i’ve got nowhere to set this down until something happens to change my mind.

joshywoshybigfatposhy said in November 2nd, 2009 at 7:41 pm

I’ll be a Packers fan until the day I die. Mike McCarthy could never change that. Sadly, he can’t create an offensive line either. Until we have an offensive line, we will be a decidedly mediocre team. In my view, these are all established facts.
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You can wait to condemn McCarthy if you want, Aaron. I’ve watched him for three plus seasons now. I feel I know the man. I have neither torch, nor pitchfork. But he has failed and he must leave. I have nothing more to say on the subject.

Cuphound said in November 2nd, 2009 at 9:43 pm

I agree with this column.

Phillip said in November 2nd, 2009 at 9:53 pm

If the Packers get rid of McCarthy, who would you guys want as the new coach. My vote would be for Mike Shannahan. If I remember correctly, he ran the zone blocking scheme in Denver and made no name running backs look good. Plus, the Packers have to keep up the new tradition of having head coaches named Mike.

Fosterflakes said in November 2nd, 2009 at 9:54 pm

I hate Mike Shanahan. But I would like Bill Cowher, who I’ve also heard mentioned. Although if Shanahan could stab Ted in the back like he did Dan Reeves, he could come in handy.

foundinidaho said in November 2nd, 2009 at 10:22 pm

I havent been happy with MM for awhile now but decided I’m officially in the “he must go” crowd at halftime when the reporter said she talked to him and he said that they may have to start going to more 3 step drops. NO SHIT SHERLOCK! You have a oline that is struggling and a quarterback that holds on to the ball too long at times and it takes you 6 quarters of playing the league leader in team sacks to figure out you should call plays that get the ball out quicker? That is completely unacceptable. Too few runs, few or no screens, few or no draws, and 5 and 7 step drops with downfield patterns should not be the gameplan when you have the weaknesses we do. You don’t have to be an offensive genious to figure those things out and yet he simple cant seem to do it. The “we know what we need to get fixed and we are going to do that” line we’ve been hearing for the last 2 years is tiresome because obviously they dont know what the problems are or they wouldnt keep calling plays that emphasize the weaker areas of our team and they arent fixing them. Add to that Rodgers comments on holding the ball too long last week and Jolly’s on his boneheaded play this week…. basically both said “That’s how I play and I’m not going to change.” (always one of my number one arguements over the last decade when explaining why i disliked favre so much) which shows me that players either aren’t being held accountable for their deciciencies or don’t respect MM enough to at least work on those things or both. Something has got to change.

wgbeethree said in November 2nd, 2009 at 10:28 pm

Look…this is going to sound pessimistic, but face it: this team can’t beat a quality opponent. The Packers will likely go at least 7-9 simply because we play a string of absolutely horrid teams this year. If the Packers win a couple of games against middling teams (maybe the Ravens, Cards) and go 9-7, they might sneak into the playoffs.

Why? Wasn’t Mike Sherman decried because all he did was win division championships, make the playoffs, and then lose the first game? How would this be an improvement?

This team has a lot of things to fix before we start worrying about the playoffs. I would be a lot happier if we missed the playoffs but we saw the pieces starting to fall into place for next year, including both personnel and the level of team discipline.

C.D. Angeli said in November 2nd, 2009 at 10:55 pm

If this team makes the playoffs it will be introduced to an early exit. I’d rather take the higher pick than watch a slaughter in the wild-card round.

Bryan Aschenbrenner said in November 2nd, 2009 at 10:59 pm

CSS – I’m not ashamed of the franchise itself. If that was what was construed, it was not my intention. That being said, I’ve been a Packer fan for all my life, and I have never seen a poorer effort from a supposedly “good” team.

My two points were simple:
1. TT and MM have changed my mind over the past year. They are screwups and we’ll never get better until they’re gone.
2. The Packers loss to BF and the Vikings at home this year was not acceptable in my book. I have never watched a more painful game.

Bearmeat said in November 2nd, 2009 at 11:27 pm

Personaly, I vote for Bill Cowher even though I don’t think there is any chance for such a move in the coaching staff.
Again, do not throw everybody away merely because of 3 early losses in the season.

darolls said in November 3rd, 2009 at 2:45 am

Hey Corey & Aaron,
I’m an Irish Pack fan living in London, UK. Long story short I’ve been a NFL fan since the late 80’s when we used to get a weekly highlight show to whet our appetite, now we get three live games a week. I admired Montana, Marino, Young, Rice, Walsh, Aikman to name a few but could never settle on a team. Fast forward to 2006, I visited Lambeau, with my now wife; a Wisconsin native, for the Cardinals game in which Favre ran a bootleg to the right which turned into him running in for a touchdown and a Lambeau leap – needless to say I’ve been hooked ever since.

Now, I know I cannot proport to be an expert but here are my thoughts as to why we are in the predicament we find ourselves at the moment and it stems back to the 13-3 2007 season and possibly further. Forgive me if I’m repeating any of your wisdom but damn this season is really ticking me off!!!

Discipline & Penalties!!! OMG don’t get me started!!!! ;-) These are the SAME issues that haven’t been addressed since Favre’s (sorry Corey, I blasphemed!!! ;-) ) final Packer season. The O-line were horrible & undisciplined then and are still now!!! The problem lies in the fact that despite a horrific O-line that team went 13-3 partly due to some defensive playmakers makning plays and, love him or hate him, Favre’s 16yr savvy!!! In 2008 we went 6-10 for exactly the same reasons minus #4!!!! Solution: TT should have drafted or spent money on the O-line way back in 2007 and even before. MM needs to practice what he preaches and make the players “accountable” for consistent errors especially penalties even if that means benching a player for a play or a series. It’s amazing what a moment of reflection can do in the heat of the battle. Maybe Rodgers should go back and look at the 2007 tape for inspiration???!!! ;-) There’s no glory in being statistically a Top 5 QB in the league and having a losing record!!! End of rant!!!! Damn, it ticks me off to see such a talented team blow their chances consistently every week.

The measure of the 2009 team will not be whether we reach the playoffs but whether we can rub shoulder’s with the big boys. With the state of play at this point it would be quite conceivable that in the final 9 games we go 3-6. I hope the Pack prove me wrong and if they don’t something has to change, starting with James Campen!!! Ouch!!!!

Anyway guys love the show. Never miss it. It’s my source of weekly packer nourishment.

Go Pack!!!

Ian

packhoagy said in November 3rd, 2009 at 6:11 am

Every blogger, supposed fan and Leroy Butler can go fornicate themselves on a metal pole when they say Rodgers is a, ‘Stats guy.’ Ridiculous statement made out of frustration.

When has he ever referenced his stats? He takes a beating and doesn’t throw teamates under the bus. His teamates put him in untenable down-and-distance due to penalties. He works out all offseason, participates in OTA’s and exhudes leadership (take notes, Brett). He isn’t obsessed with a legacy.

Anybody taking this angle on Rodgers knows nothing of the game. Go watch fucking soccer. This type of speculation makes me hate my fellow Packer fans. Christ, prior to the internet I thought only Vikings fans made assinine statements like this when they lost. I’m embarrassed that there’s little separating my perception of other fans when things aren’t going their way and Packer fans.

We appear to be equally as ignorant of the game.

CSS said in November 3rd, 2009 at 7:12 am

Butler doesn’t call Rodgers a “Stats guy”. Here’s what he says:
I just don’t want Aaron to become a stat guy, leading in all these areas but not having won anything.
By saying he does not want Rodgers to become a stats guy, I think it’s fair to conclude that he does not believe Rodgers is one, at least not yet. I think he’s right about Rodger, by the way- he’s very good, but he’s got to make better decisions. He’s got to be able to decide when to throw downfield, when to throw the checkdown, when to throw it away, and when to tuck it and run. Right now he’s still struggling with that.
Interestingly, while Butler may not quite be in the Torch and Pitchfork crowd yet, he’s at least forging the irons. He’s especially harsh on the attitude that allows stupid penalties like Jolly’s to persist, but he also thinks the team is “maybe not as prepared” as its opponents.
I’m probably in a similar place. I generally have liked Mike McCarthy the past few years, but when you’re outprepared and outgameplanned by Brad Childress- twice- I think you have to start looking at whether the coaching staff is doing all they can with what they have.

bucky said in November 3rd, 2009 at 7:41 am

We’re very fortunate to have Rodgers as our QB. He’s very unfortunate to have our O-coaches and O-line.

Jim in DC said in November 3rd, 2009 at 8:00 am

I absolutely agree with you bucky & Jim – We couldn’t have asked for better from a new QB, Rodgers has the potential of being a great player for years to come. The whole protection unit is out of whack and inconsistent and has been for at least 2/3 years no matter who is under center. I just hope we find a way to keep Rodgers healthy for long enough to get offensive production to a consistent level. Inconsistency and penalties are killing us and have been even before Rodgers took the helm! :-(

packhoagy said in November 3rd, 2009 at 8:11 am

EVERY QB has areas they need to improve. There are many stats that are, ‘throw away’, statistics. However, the meaningful statistics such as 3rd down conversion, red zone efficiency, turnovers per attempt, explosive plays all rank Rodgers in the top 5. ONE MAN can only do so much. Yes, his internal clock needs to go off and say ‘run’ or ‘throw it away.’ But his supportin cast, especially at running back and offensive line, are placing the kid in untennable situations. There is an undercurrent out there saying Rodgers isn’t getting it done.

Anybody that understands even the simplist aspects of the game needs to stand up and say bullshit. Yes, I am pissed. You have five consistant guys on this squad right now: Rodgers, Driver, Hayvner, Matthews and Woodson. Everybody deserves criticism, but the remainder of the roster deserves almost all the scrutiny at the moment.

CSS said in November 3rd, 2009 at 8:21 am

CSS said “You have five consistant guys on this squad right now: Rodgers, Driver, Hayvner, Matthews and Woodson. Everybody deserves criticism, but the remainder of the roster deserves almost all the scrutiny at the moment.”

Absolutely right. I would throw the coaching staff and the front office inot the scutiny category, as well. We have not had a decent o-line, or o-line play, since the Sherman years. Very sad.

Jim in DC said in November 3rd, 2009 at 8:42 am

CSS, I agree with you and share your frustration. Go Pack!!!

packhoagy said in November 3rd, 2009 at 8:46 am

Jim in DC said – “We have not had a decent o-line, or o-line play, since the Sherman years. Very sad.”

I may not know alot but I know that. Well said Jim.

packhoagy said in November 3rd, 2009 at 8:53 am

I want to know who watched these offensive linemen work out and practice all offseason, then proclaimed them good to go. I can’t believe Allen Barbre just lights it up in practice, then comes to the game and plays like he does. And the backup plan for Clifton, coming off 4 surgeries at his age? Going with Colledge, then just abandoning that for Lang, who hadn’t even practiced at LT? Wow. The current offensive line situation is, in my mind, even worse than we all think. How is this going to be fixed for next year? And how could this not be noticed? Not saying anybody should be fired tomorrow over it, but it’s just amazing.

Ruuppert said in November 3rd, 2009 at 9:09 am

Let me pause and say, I believe this team can compete week in and week out. I want to see them beat a playoff team. Solidify special teams, start fast, get the lead early, and allow your defense to attack and running game to ATTEMPT the run with a lead. Sounds simple, right.

For the record, I’m not part of the pitchfork crowd yet, but will make that decision by game 10. I want to see how this roster responds and rallies around their QB. I want to see some individual effort, accountability and pride.

My sky is not falling, I’ll leave that to the C.D. Angeli’s of the world to post the ‘end days’ on Tundra Vision.

Losing to the Vikings is always painful. Last night I was cheering for the Saints. Teams like the Saints need to keep running away with the division and beating down the Falcons of the NFL. Packers can take a wild card.

I will cheer the Packers on but wield stick for bloggers/fans with illogical rants. Let’s see how it plays out.

CSS said in November 3rd, 2009 at 9:51 am

Love listening to the podcast. Good job!
Two things: 1) Could you re-visit a stat from an earlier broadcast? – it had to do with how many offensive linemen had been picked in early rounds over the past several years. THAT is the key issue for which McCarthy and Thompson need to be called to account.
2) McCarthy mentioned post-game that the Vikings have not been penalized – zero, zip, nada, zilch – in two consecutive road games. Has that ever happened before – in NFL history? Evry reply I saw in slo mo in the 1st half included a penalty not called – tackling our DT, then a bump on DD 15 yds downfield. Are the zebras in love with Favre too?

PackerBackerBruce said in November 3rd, 2009 at 9:56 am

CSS – you’re right about the QB being only ‘one man’ and his teammates needing to step up. That said, he is the most IMPORTANT ‘one man’ on the field. Rodgers is not above reproach. The great quarterbacks (and I want Rodgers to be great) can carry a team on their backs. He had the Packers at 2nd and 2 deep in Viking territory – and he couldn’t seal the deal. Yes, a million things happened on the periphery – but that was Rodgers’ moment, the moment to transform himself into a great QB – needless to say, that didn’t happen.

Aaron Nagler said in November 3rd, 2009 at 10:02 am

Aaron – He had them within 4 late in the game after an atrocious start. He is everything I want in a QB but can’t throw from his back nor can he throw on two man routes. When your opponent cand rush 4 and drop 7 into coverage and still get pressure you are screwed. Did you see how Matty ‘ice’ responded to the same scenario last night? 3 ints and killed his teams chance to win. Absent of support, Rodgers still gives you the chance to win. You’re asking the impossible against a defense the caliber of the Vikings when your ONLY phase of the game that works is the passing game.

Rodgers needs to do much more, only 600+ yds passing, 5 td’s and 1 int against one of the best defenses in the game….. with little to no support. Yes, we should demand more. How about super man? Green lantern? What fantasy should we make real?

CSS said in November 3rd, 2009 at 10:11 am

Aaron – I am going a bit overboard and shouldn’t always respond as such. But the Packers have a QB that’s been performing at an all pro level for 23 games now. Yet posters and casual fans want a hall of famer now. They want Favre in his prime during MVP years now. Name 6-7 other QB’s you would rather have be your franchise right now?

Favre gets far too much credit for Vikings wins and Rodgers gets far too much criticism for his time as a starter. I guess that’s the NFL, coaches and QB’s get too much credit and too much blame.

CSS said in November 3rd, 2009 at 10:16 am

Playoffs? I don’t see it happening, but i don’t really care. This team cannot go all the way anyway.
* * *
I’ve been handing out pitchforks for a while. Forget Favre vs. Rodgers. Look at what else the Vikings have picked up lately: Harvin, Peterson, Loadholt — only up against Kampman, true, but a RT who can play. Imagine that.

Mr. Optimistic said in November 3rd, 2009 at 10:25 am

I’m happy and proud that the packers are my team. always have been, through thick and… um, thicker.

sherman and mccarthy.

I remember being held hostage to sherman’s winning record as we watched the talent pool dwindle and homefield advantage, and playoff wins slide into oblivion. we knew he had to go -for years- as we watched a talented and strong team go slowly to waste.

sherman was okay, okay? he just wasn’t the guy and most of us knew it.

now most of us know it again.

and again, who makes the call? the board may be too much in the black to rock the boat. murphy has less seniority and only slightly more stage presence than TT. Teddy is a good ‘talent evaluator’, but a GM has to be a leader, and he is NOT that.

– and for most of us, he is not the guy. and we know that.

and MM is not the guy, and we’ve learned that by losing homefield advantage, bitter rivalries, decent players, and far too many games.

GB has more owners than any other team in football, but no one who is directly accountable.

this team is too talented to waste and maybe it would be wise to move on sooner, this time, rather than have to relive the freefall of a proud tradition in silent helpless slo-mo.

joepacker said in November 3rd, 2009 at 10:31 am

CSS — I don’t think the sentiment here is particularly anti-Rodgers. Rodgers didn’t have a great game on Sunday, but put him on the Vikings and Favre on the Packers and the outcome probably would have been similar. There are things that Favre still does better than Rodgers — gets rid of the ball quickly, and he’s got all those years of experience to go on — and those would help given the lack of an o-line, but still, this current Packer team isn’t a good match for him. Had the Packers hung on to him, Rodgers might be in anyway. I’m surprised Rodgers is still in one piece.

Mr. Optimistic said in November 3rd, 2009 at 10:52 am

And I am suprised Rodgers stays cool on the field even after so many sacks…
Lots of other QBs would get their O-line hell and get rid of the ball at every snap, fearing the sack!!!
I think Rodgers does not have to envy Brett Favre at all! He is more patient and as (or even more) talented as he was at the same age …

darolls said in November 3rd, 2009 at 11:00 am

Remember all the folks that worried about Rodgers being fragile? LOL!

Jim in DC said in November 3rd, 2009 at 12:35 pm

Ha! one poster had it right… if you wanted to get rid of Favre all you had to do is let him continue to play behind the OL in GB!

But Rodgers does not throw down, away or take any risks… sure it helps his stats but it’s not going to win any games… the all time winning QB in NFL history also holds the Intercep record! why? Sometimes you have to let others (the receivers) attempt to make a play too! Rodgers stats are not affected by his sacks but the win loss column sure is. He is the leader of the team and must play with the cards he has been dealt. Favre took this team to 13-3 and 1 play from a SB appearance … the very year before it went to 6-10 under Rodgers … you just cannot out argue the facts. Favre’s departure negatively impacted the Packers team, players and fans.

greenbaypackerbob said in November 3rd, 2009 at 1:02 pm

Ha! a poster stated that the Vikings team not Favre won the game, it had nothing to do with him … duh… did you not see Favre throw 4 TD’s in the game Sunday??? Peterson held to 1 TD?

Granted it takes a team to win, but Packer fans would have been glad to receive that type of contribution from any of their players… especially from one as old and washed up as Favre.

greenbaypackerbob said in November 3rd, 2009 at 1:08 pm

It’s so much easier to throw 4 TD passes when you got the best running back ever behind you and all the defenser focused on him!!!!

darolls said in November 3rd, 2009 at 2:27 pm

I think Mcarthy won’t be on the hot seat until the end of next year because, the Packers will go through the offseason trying to fix the offensive line. If that’s not fixed by the end of next year and we have a medicore year, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Mcarthy go.

joelkleinium said in November 3rd, 2009 at 2:50 pm

I hope the snooze fest is not setting in GB…. i.e. where fans feel now they must defend TT and McCarthy at all cost in order to prove that giving up one of the best QBs in NFL history was the right thing to do (i.e. go read that goofy transcript of McCarthy explaining how they lost to Vikes on the Packer.com site – it hardly makes sense).

‘Worship’ them (as some have elsewhere defined the word for those supporters of Favre) if you must, I will wait till they are gone before returning to the Packer bench. Then good players (like Rodgers!) may have a chance at becoming something great at Green BAy.

greenbaypackerbob said in November 4th, 2009 at 10:56 am

Bob, why does every one of your comments revolve around your man-love for Brent and how TT & MM screwed him? Will ya please just give it a rest? The topic is people calling for MM’s head for the (insert expletive) coaching job he’s done this season.

Jim in DC said in November 4th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

My God!!! I don’t believe the hoopla. What ever happened to the die hard pack fans that BELIEVE? We will make the playoffs don’t worry about that! Now that I have said that off with the heads of not only McCarthy but let’s get to the root of the problem a man by the name of Ted Thompson… Your team can only be as good as the caliber players on it. We may be playing like an undisciplined group but what do you expect when we have the youngest team in the league. Why haven’t we gone after free agents that could help us out? For god sake gonzales was available at the end of last season. Why God Why? #$%& Ted thompson and if MM doesn’t clean it up I can think of 2 coaches that are out of work and have a superbowl win… Holmgren where are you? Oh yeah and my parting remark let’s get tauscher and clifton in starting roles then see where the line is.

Pack4Life said in November 4th, 2009 at 4:32 pm

I agree with Pack4forLife.

ps.
sorry, it’s hard not to be reflective starting at the ‘beginning’ of the downhill slide from a 13-3 year… I will rest now….(notice no comments about ‘that quarterback’ as McCarthy expressed it in his after game postscript…oops.

greenbaypackerbob said in November 5th, 2009 at 10:58 am
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