For the Torch & Pitchfork Crowd
By Aaron Nagler on Nov 02, 2009 with 78 Comments
I get it, I really do. Trust me, after a game like the one we witnessed yesterday, it is quite understandable to be calling for Mike McCarthy’s head.
But you’re a tad premature.
If this team goes on to make the playoffs, and there’s every chance in the world it could grab a Wild Card spot, that represents progress from a 6-10 season. On the other hand, if we continue to see the same problems over and over and nothing gets fixed this year and they miss the playoffs, yes, I’ll be ready to join the crowd.
But a lot, and I mean a LOT can and will happen between now and the end of the season. This is your team, no matter how much, at this moment, you wish it wasn’t. You simply have to get behind them, warts and all. I’m not happy with McCarthy, but I’m not ready to call for his head yet.
But I’m close.
Filed Under: Mike McCarthy
Every blogger, supposed fan and Leroy Butler can go fornicate themselves on a metal pole when they say Rodgers is a, ‘Stats guy.’ Ridiculous statement made out of frustration.
When has he ever referenced his stats? He takes a beating and doesn’t throw teamates under the bus. His teamates put him in untenable down-and-distance due to penalties. He works out all offseason, participates in OTA’s and exhudes leadership (take notes, Brett). He isn’t obsessed with a legacy.
Anybody taking this angle on Rodgers knows nothing of the game. Go watch fucking soccer. This type of speculation makes me hate my fellow Packer fans. Christ, prior to the internet I thought only Vikings fans made assinine statements like this when they lost. I’m embarrassed that there’s little separating my perception of other fans when things aren’t going their way and Packer fans.
We appear to be equally as ignorant of the game.
[...] "A lot, and I mean a LOT can and will happen between now and the end of the season," writes Nagler. "This is your team, no matter how much, at this moment, you wish it wasn’t. You simply have [...]
Butler doesn’t call Rodgers a “Stats guy”. Here’s what he says:
I just don’t want Aaron to become a stat guy, leading in all these areas but not having won anything.
By saying he does not want Rodgers to become a stats guy, I think it’s fair to conclude that he does not believe Rodgers is one, at least not yet. I think he’s right about Rodger, by the way- he’s very good, but he’s got to make better decisions. He’s got to be able to decide when to throw downfield, when to throw the checkdown, when to throw it away, and when to tuck it and run. Right now he’s still struggling with that.
Interestingly, while Butler may not quite be in the Torch and Pitchfork crowd yet, he’s at least forging the irons. He’s especially harsh on the attitude that allows stupid penalties like Jolly’s to persist, but he also thinks the team is “maybe not as prepared” as its opponents.
I’m probably in a similar place. I generally have liked Mike McCarthy the past few years, but when you’re outprepared and outgameplanned by Brad Childress- twice- I think you have to start looking at whether the coaching staff is doing all they can with what they have.
We’re very fortunate to have Rodgers as our QB. He’s very unfortunate to have our O-coaches and O-line.
I absolutely agree with you bucky & Jim – We couldn’t have asked for better from a new QB, Rodgers has the potential of being a great player for years to come. The whole protection unit is out of whack and inconsistent and has been for at least 2/3 years no matter who is under center. I just hope we find a way to keep Rodgers healthy for long enough to get offensive production to a consistent level. Inconsistency and penalties are killing us and have been even before Rodgers took the helm!
EVERY QB has areas they need to improve. There are many stats that are, ‘throw away’, statistics. However, the meaningful statistics such as 3rd down conversion, red zone efficiency, turnovers per attempt, explosive plays all rank Rodgers in the top 5. ONE MAN can only do so much. Yes, his internal clock needs to go off and say ‘run’ or ‘throw it away.’ But his supportin cast, especially at running back and offensive line, are placing the kid in untennable situations. There is an undercurrent out there saying Rodgers isn’t getting it done.
Anybody that understands even the simplist aspects of the game needs to stand up and say bullshit. Yes, I am pissed. You have five consistant guys on this squad right now: Rodgers, Driver, Hayvner, Matthews and Woodson. Everybody deserves criticism, but the remainder of the roster deserves almost all the scrutiny at the moment.
CSS said “You have five consistant guys on this squad right now: Rodgers, Driver, Hayvner, Matthews and Woodson. Everybody deserves criticism, but the remainder of the roster deserves almost all the scrutiny at the moment.”
Absolutely right. I would throw the coaching staff and the front office inot the scutiny category, as well. We have not had a decent o-line, or o-line play, since the Sherman years. Very sad.
CSS, I agree with you and share your frustration. Go Pack!!!
Jim in DC said – “We have not had a decent o-line, or o-line play, since the Sherman years. Very sad.”
I may not know alot but I know that. Well said Jim.
I want to know who watched these offensive linemen work out and practice all offseason, then proclaimed them good to go. I can’t believe Allen Barbre just lights it up in practice, then comes to the game and plays like he does. And the backup plan for Clifton, coming off 4 surgeries at his age? Going with Colledge, then just abandoning that for Lang, who hadn’t even practiced at LT? Wow. The current offensive line situation is, in my mind, even worse than we all think. How is this going to be fixed for next year? And how could this not be noticed? Not saying anybody should be fired tomorrow over it, but it’s just amazing.
Let me pause and say, I believe this team can compete week in and week out. I want to see them beat a playoff team. Solidify special teams, start fast, get the lead early, and allow your defense to attack and running game to ATTEMPT the run with a lead. Sounds simple, right.
For the record, I’m not part of the pitchfork crowd yet, but will make that decision by game 10. I want to see how this roster responds and rallies around their QB. I want to see some individual effort, accountability and pride.
My sky is not falling, I’ll leave that to the C.D. Angeli’s of the world to post the ‘end days’ on Tundra Vision.
Losing to the Vikings is always painful. Last night I was cheering for the Saints. Teams like the Saints need to keep running away with the division and beating down the Falcons of the NFL. Packers can take a wild card.
I will cheer the Packers on but wield stick for bloggers/fans with illogical rants. Let’s see how it plays out.
Love listening to the podcast. Good job!
Two things: 1) Could you re-visit a stat from an earlier broadcast? – it had to do with how many offensive linemen had been picked in early rounds over the past several years. THAT is the key issue for which McCarthy and Thompson need to be called to account.
2) McCarthy mentioned post-game that the Vikings have not been penalized – zero, zip, nada, zilch – in two consecutive road games. Has that ever happened before – in NFL history? Evry reply I saw in slo mo in the 1st half included a penalty not called – tackling our DT, then a bump on DD 15 yds downfield. Are the zebras in love with Favre too?
CSS – you’re right about the QB being only ‘one man’ and his teammates needing to step up. That said, he is the most IMPORTANT ‘one man’ on the field. Rodgers is not above reproach. The great quarterbacks (and I want Rodgers to be great) can carry a team on their backs. He had the Packers at 2nd and 2 deep in Viking territory – and he couldn’t seal the deal. Yes, a million things happened on the periphery – but that was Rodgers’ moment, the moment to transform himself into a great QB – needless to say, that didn’t happen.
Aaron – He had them within 4 late in the game after an atrocious start. He is everything I want in a QB but can’t throw from his back nor can he throw on two man routes. When your opponent cand rush 4 and drop 7 into coverage and still get pressure you are screwed. Did you see how Matty ‘ice’ responded to the same scenario last night? 3 ints and killed his teams chance to win. Absent of support, Rodgers still gives you the chance to win. You’re asking the impossible against a defense the caliber of the Vikings when your ONLY phase of the game that works is the passing game.
Rodgers needs to do much more, only 600+ yds passing, 5 td’s and 1 int against one of the best defenses in the game….. with little to no support. Yes, we should demand more. How about super man? Green lantern? What fantasy should we make real?
Aaron – I am going a bit overboard and shouldn’t always respond as such. But the Packers have a QB that’s been performing at an all pro level for 23 games now. Yet posters and casual fans want a hall of famer now. They want Favre in his prime during MVP years now. Name 6-7 other QB’s you would rather have be your franchise right now?
Favre gets far too much credit for Vikings wins and Rodgers gets far too much criticism for his time as a starter. I guess that’s the NFL, coaches and QB’s get too much credit and too much blame.
Playoffs? I don’t see it happening, but i don’t really care. This team cannot go all the way anyway.
* * *
I’ve been handing out pitchforks for a while. Forget Favre vs. Rodgers. Look at what else the Vikings have picked up lately: Harvin, Peterson, Loadholt — only up against Kampman, true, but a RT who can play. Imagine that.
I’m happy and proud that the packers are my team. always have been, through thick and… um, thicker.
sherman and mccarthy.
I remember being held hostage to sherman’s winning record as we watched the talent pool dwindle and homefield advantage, and playoff wins slide into oblivion. we knew he had to go -for years- as we watched a talented and strong team go slowly to waste.
sherman was okay, okay? he just wasn’t the guy and most of us knew it.
now most of us know it again.
and again, who makes the call? the board may be too much in the black to rock the boat. murphy has less seniority and only slightly more stage presence than TT. Teddy is a good ‘talent evaluator’, but a GM has to be a leader, and he is NOT that.
– and for most of us, he is not the guy. and we know that.
and MM is not the guy, and we’ve learned that by losing homefield advantage, bitter rivalries, decent players, and far too many games.
GB has more owners than any other team in football, but no one who is directly accountable.
this team is too talented to waste and maybe it would be wise to move on sooner, this time, rather than have to relive the freefall of a proud tradition in silent helpless slo-mo.
CSS — I don’t think the sentiment here is particularly anti-Rodgers. Rodgers didn’t have a great game on Sunday, but put him on the Vikings and Favre on the Packers and the outcome probably would have been similar. There are things that Favre still does better than Rodgers — gets rid of the ball quickly, and he’s got all those years of experience to go on — and those would help given the lack of an o-line, but still, this current Packer team isn’t a good match for him. Had the Packers hung on to him, Rodgers might be in anyway. I’m surprised Rodgers is still in one piece.
And I am suprised Rodgers stays cool on the field even after so many sacks…
Lots of other QBs would get their O-line hell and get rid of the ball at every snap, fearing the sack!!!
I think Rodgers does not have to envy Brett Favre at all! He is more patient and as (or even more) talented as he was at the same age …
Remember all the folks that worried about Rodgers being fragile? LOL!
Ha! one poster had it right… if you wanted to get rid of Favre all you had to do is let him continue to play behind the OL in GB!
But Rodgers does not throw down, away or take any risks… sure it helps his stats but it’s not going to win any games… the all time winning QB in NFL history also holds the Intercep record! why? Sometimes you have to let others (the receivers) attempt to make a play too! Rodgers stats are not affected by his sacks but the win loss column sure is. He is the leader of the team and must play with the cards he has been dealt. Favre took this team to 13-3 and 1 play from a SB appearance … the very year before it went to 6-10 under Rodgers … you just cannot out argue the facts. Favre’s departure negatively impacted the Packers team, players and fans.
Ha! a poster stated that the Vikings team not Favre won the game, it had nothing to do with him … duh… did you not see Favre throw 4 TD’s in the game Sunday??? Peterson held to 1 TD?
Granted it takes a team to win, but Packer fans would have been glad to receive that type of contribution from any of their players… especially from one as old and washed up as Favre.
It’s so much easier to throw 4 TD passes when you got the best running back ever behind you and all the defenser focused on him!!!!
I think Mcarthy won’t be on the hot seat until the end of next year because, the Packers will go through the offseason trying to fix the offensive line. If that’s not fixed by the end of next year and we have a medicore year, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Mcarthy go.
I hope the snooze fest is not setting in GB…. i.e. where fans feel now they must defend TT and McCarthy at all cost in order to prove that giving up one of the best QBs in NFL history was the right thing to do (i.e. go read that goofy transcript of McCarthy explaining how they lost to Vikes on the Packer.com site – it hardly makes sense).
‘Worship’ them (as some have elsewhere defined the word for those supporters of Favre) if you must, I will wait till they are gone before returning to the Packer bench. Then good players (like Rodgers!) may have a chance at becoming something great at Green BAy.
Bob, why does every one of your comments revolve around your man-love for Brent and how TT & MM screwed him? Will ya please just give it a rest? The topic is people calling for MM’s head for the (insert expletive) coaching job he’s done this season.
My God!!! I don’t believe the hoopla. What ever happened to the die hard pack fans that BELIEVE? We will make the playoffs don’t worry about that! Now that I have said that off with the heads of not only McCarthy but let’s get to the root of the problem a man by the name of Ted Thompson… Your team can only be as good as the caliber players on it. We may be playing like an undisciplined group but what do you expect when we have the youngest team in the league. Why haven’t we gone after free agents that could help us out? For god sake gonzales was available at the end of last season. Why God Why? #$%& Ted thompson and if MM doesn’t clean it up I can think of 2 coaches that are out of work and have a superbowl win… Holmgren where are you? Oh yeah and my parting remark let’s get tauscher and clifton in starting roles then see where the line is.
I agree with Pack4forLife.
ps.
sorry, it’s hard not to be reflective starting at the ‘beginning’ of the downhill slide from a 13-3 year… I will rest now….(notice no comments about ‘that quarterback’ as McCarthy expressed it in his after game postscript…oops.