I thought sleeping on it would give me some perspective, but I may be more frustrated this morning. Jenkins is right, we have good enough bodies but they aren't using them well. I think I need some time off. It will be painful today to listen to viking bandwagon jumpers who can't ID more than 2 players on their team telling me how much we suck. And I'll have no comeback accept, "Oh yeah? Well at least we don't play in a dome."

Dear all, I sincerely apologize for losing it yesterday. Just very frustrated.

But, I am not sure scheme is really the problem. I think they lost too many 1 on 1 battles. The Vikings have better players at enough positions to win. They are just better right now.

Same old story, week after week. I always complain about this team's inconsistency. Maybe I should rethink that. This team consistently does the same stupid things, week after week--I won't write the list. We're all aware of it.
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The stubbornness of this coaching staff (both sides of the ball) is completely mind-boggling. Defensively, the very presence of two excellent "man" corners should provide a flexibility that should strike fear into opposing teams. We should be disguising zone/man coverages on a regular basis, which, when coupled with some blitzes, should make for all kinds of confusion for opposing offenses. But no. I might also reiterate something I complained about before the season...we may just not have any guys who have an innate talent for blitzing, no matter what scheme or coordinator dials them up.
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And on offense? I'll just say this: Has McCarthy improved at all since he took the job (coaching the O)? I can't think so. I might argue he's gotten worse since he's now so stubborn he refuses to change one bit. How predictable is his offense now? Minny knew exactly what was coming the entire first half. And I'll skip the rant about team discipline, since there is none.
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I realize this is wayyyy premature, but I just don't have reason to believe any of this is going to change as the year goes on.

Not here to gloat but the Packers problem was very clear to an outsider at the beginning of the season. I believe the arrogance and the stubbornness of the franchise is the problem. It's too bad the fan base took half a season to see through the BS the management has been saying. Enough said about that. I’m glad the boarder battle is over because the Vikings need to focus on a bigger goal. I’m not going to mention the goal but they need to get past revenge matches. Besides the way it is looking the Packers are a team of the past.

Bye Todd.

Good Bye to all it was fun last week. No hard feelings because remember it's only football and there will always be a next year. Until next year Todd.

Vikings bigger goal: stopping the relocation to LA. Good luck with that.

In the 3rd Qtr the team either play with more vigor or the Queens backed off their pressure defense a tad and the Packers were quite good on offense. That along with a full half season of the O line being a piece of crap should point to the fact that MM is nothing but a one trick pony. He cannot, and I emphasize CANNOT, change his offensive philosophy EVER.
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The 1st half was deep throw oriented but failed to account for the fact that even with the Queens rudhing four and the packers holding in seven were no able to go deep. Why? Simple, the Queens had seven in coverage and doubled up and got in every passing lane Rodgers had available.
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Think about the time when Harris and Woodson and Kampman and Picket are gone. That could be as soon as next year. Where are the replacements coming from?

One more thing. If the opposing team doesn't have a running game it’s easy to cover the pass. Packers get a running back in the off season look at what the Bengals did this year with Cedric Benson. In the draft find some linemen. Change the defensive scheme or find defensive guys that fit the 3-4. I like the 3-4 style but you need faster guys and more finesse. Less brute strength.

It's sad to say, but I just don't think McCarthy is very bright. A smarter coach would be more responsive, and would change things that aren't working (deep drops, Rodgers' refusal to run or look short, rampant penalties). Favre's own audibles at the line in 2007 may have made him look like a far better play-caller than he actually is.

That said, if A-Rodg makes a better decision on the third down when the Packers are down 31-26, who knows what happens? Two guys were open short. Rodgers probably could have run for the first down as well. Instead, he throws an uncatchable bomb to a double-covered Driver. What the hell?

I said a lot yesterday, and Aaron repeated everything I said exactly: Coaching, they're toast. It'll be 2 years before managment will change, in the meantime, mediocre we'll have to settle for. Can't wait for about 5yrs from now when Rodgers has a new coaching staff, better line, better players on defense, and starts being compared to the greatest quarterbacks in history. Til' then, I'll just watch the Packers and weep.

I posted this elsewhere:

Columnists are so black and white in their interpretations. No team runs a pure scheme of 3-4, 4-3, Tampa 2; they all run variable hybrids in order to confuse offenses and keep them off balance. Asking any defense to do that against a veteren QB like Favre is very difficult. So no, the scheme is not 'handcuffing' Jenkins becuse Jenkins and guys like Kampmann had their hands in the ground moving up the field on 60% of the plays, no different than what they did in the 4-3 on passing downs last year.

Ask yourself this, why was Jenkins, a suppossed all-pro, invisible for almost every series and every play with only 2 tackles (individual effort?)? Also, how does a rookie in Clay Matthews consistantly win battles against a LT like Mckinnie and Kampman stays invisible against a rookie right tackle?

I don't doubt there's much adjusting to new schemes and a new coordinator, but sometimes supposedly 'all pro' potential tackles like Jenkins need to point the finger back at themselves and question the effort. You can't bring your 'B' game against a focused, talented team like Minnesota.

Right on CSS. Exactly. Best scheme means nothing if you don't win individual battles.

I agree that thru 7 games the Packers look like a team that will beat the teams they should beat (gimmies) and be inconsistant against playoff caliber teams. There has been, since MM and TT came on board an emphasis on special teams and discipline. Both are bottom in the league at the moment. That's my biggest gripe.

Oh ya, and I will be terse with the final thought: For the fans and bloggers declaring the sky is falling and we're doomed, doomed I tell you....piss off.

I'm all for criticism but some of the commentary is so visceral and without merit it's pathetic. At the moment, I'm in full agreement that the TT and MM watch is on. The team needs to step up.

What Doug in Sandpoint said, except for I would use the words "humpty dump" instead of "dome". I was mad at all the negativity expressed yesterday...but you know what, most of it was right. It's just so damn frustrating.

Well it's all water under the dam. The season's probably lost, but there are eight games left. Don't overlook a hungry Tampa Bay coming off a bye.
That said, looking at the box scores, what became clear is we do have a running game. Only, it's Rodgers.
Why keep Grant? This ZB system doesn't seem to work for him.
Tim Tebow may be a model. We have an options qb or rather a qb with options, scrambling and pro passing ability. At least if the guy gets tackled he's running forward. Use max blocking and keep a couple recievers in place for the pass option. This might turn a liability, holding the ball too long, into an asset. You could do various looks and fakes off of it. Mix in some traditional running as needed.
A couple of benefits; keeping the defense off balance, pounding the defensive line, running the clock, using what the qb does well rather than trying to force plays the OL can't support.
Looks like AR had an injury though.

foundinidaho, still wondering why you told me to "choke on my own bile". What was that for?

this game is McCarthy's fault. poor game plan. by poor i mean the same. No running game, no sacks, no interceptions, penalities at crutial times.... looks the same to me.

"Think about the time when Harris and Woodson and Kampman and Picket are gone. That could be as soon as next year. Where are the replacements coming from?"
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I had a post about this a few weeks back. In addition to the players you mention, Driver can't keep playing forever (even if it seems that way sometimes). Harris is on his last legs. Collins, Bigby, Jolly and Tramon Williams are free agents this offseason. There are holes on the offensive line at at running back. How is Thompson (or the next GM as the case may be) replace all the holes in one offseason?
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The Packers are already in rebuilding mode, whether they want to admit it or not.

Not sure I agree with the coaching staff not being able to adapt. As poor as the game plan was in the first half, it did change to the short passing game int he 2nd half with good results.
As for our amazing press coverage. Pretty sure Woodson was man-to-man on Harvin on his TD, another lost 1v1 battle.
Also, when we sent the blitz ont he Vikes last TD Collins was late getting over to help on Barrien. That would have been an easy INT since Favre threw it without looking off his back foot. You can lead a horse to water....

And step off the damn ledge Pack fans. My god we're starting to sound like the MN fans in years past declaring the season over after a week 8 loss. Lots can change in the NFL from week to week.

To me, this game shows two things; one, the Packers have a much brighter future than the Vikings. Because Favre was the one that beat the Pack, not the Vikings. This game also shows that the Packers need a new runningback. Ryan Grant isn't cutting it, therefore we should draft a runningback.

Again, TT's drafting style (?)comes into this. He drafts for solid style players, never for difference-makers. The Vikes go for game-changers like Harvin. Matthews will be a solid long term player, but he won't change a game. Harvin does. The Vikes will pay the price it takes to get guys like Allen, TT NEVER will. We will thus be a 8-8 team for the foreseeable future. Seems pretty clear to me.

RYAN GRANT WILL NOT BE A PACKER COME 2010. TED THOMPSON WILL BE FIRED AT SEASONS END. MIKE MCARTHY WILL BE OUT THE DOOR TOO.

My wish list would be for cowher, shannahan to be coach, RB wish list has yet to be determined, Oline needs some major fucking help and so does the D line, TT an MM just are not cutting it! Time for Mark Murphy to do some early house cleaning

Brett Favre beat the Packers?!? Please. Five critical plays, all five reviving the Vikings or giving them amazing field position (short field) for the Vikings offense to score:
1) Harvin kickoff return (extremely short field);
2) Harvin kickoff return (extremely short field);
3) Momentum swing off idiot Jolly penalty (4 pt swing, momentum change in geneal);
4)Favre throwing into triple coverage on a blind heave to watch Harvin score a 51 yarder.

Let me correct that for you: Packers beating the Packers and Harvin beating the Packers. There are 10 other starting QB's in this league that would score given that field position and Percy Harvin. Aaron Rodgers on the Vikings puts up 60 pts. against the Packers.

jararick - one of two things happened. I mistakenly attributed a comment to you that was really negative and thought you were a Vikings fan - or - your comments really were that negative (even if you weren't a Vikings fan) and now that I've cooled off a bit I agree with most of it.

Either way, I was tired, irritated, it was late and I'd had some beer. My apologies. I stand by all the f-yous to TT, MM and BF I threw out though.

I would like to leave a comment about the inconsistent calls on roughing the QB. Ray Edward gets a very skeptical call on throwing the QB into the ground. It was impossible to stop his momentum and gentle land on Aaron. This has been the problem around the league and very inconsistent from week to week on these type of calls that could destroy the outcome of a very important game. I wish the rules were much clearer on how a defensive lineman is supposed to hit the QB. I hope the NFL commissioner doesn’t allow referees to throw games on cheap calls.

foundinidaho, no worries. I was really upset when Favre called this "one of his most satisfying games." I blamed the loss on his betrayal to Packer fans by playing with the Vikings. That really was my only rant. I cannot believe he wants to stick it to millions of Packer fans. But we are both Packer fans and thanks for the replay. Go Pack!!

Aaron - I hope the NFL doesn't officiate in a way that allows the home team to receive special treatment on penalty calls. That is how the NBA is run and that league is worthless. All I ask is consistence between week to week and no makeup penalties for inconsistency. I do believe the first game had inconsistent calls on both sides.

As a long time Packers fan (Starr, Hourne, etc.,) from VA. I feel your pain... but I have been writing in the blogs for the last year that this situation was close at hand after the Favre debacle. The divorce was for the wrong reasons and the timing stunk. Rodgers could have been held with contract money while waiting on Favre's inevitable retirement. Rodgers was to be an excellent replacement (and if he doesn't get killed he may be a great QB someday!). But Favre could have been used to draw excellent players to Green Bay as he had in the past, continued to provide respect from defenses and provided years of experience and leadership at a time when GB needs it the most. The spirit and emotion at GB has become so sadly soiled, distracted and divided due to the actions of the management staff. Favre never changed, he was the same for 16 years, but the new management did not know how to handle it (as well as some impatient fans). And Favre is hardly old and washed up as we were told to believe (they just did not know how to handle him like previous staff have done so well). Two (2) games, seven (7) TDs, no interceptions, passer ratings over 124, 145 later, GB is now suffering.

Favre went were he felt loved and wanted... and I still cannot believe that such a place was not in Green Bay but a rival team. The crummy coaching and staff decisions that was reflected in the last two rival games is only an extension of what we saw in the decision making in the summer of 08.

Unfortunately, the wrong personnel left QB in 08 and we were led to believe otherwise! Now the consequences must be suffered. Get use to it...Thompson and McCarthy have and will lull you to sleep in it.

GreenBayPackerBob - Ditto – finally a packer fan who sees the light burning a hole in his head.

double ditto greenbaypackerbob: said that when Thompson was hired, it was obvious.

Greenbaypackerbob and all the other rats that jump ship and forget recent history. You can have Favre and his mid 70's rating from mid-November thru January since 05'. You can have his 84 TD's to go with his 84 INT's during that same period. You can also have his miserable playoff record. Don't even bother throwing that 07' anomoly in anyones face. That Packer team played 3 teams over .500 compared to Rodgers Packers of last year that played 9 teams over .500. This isn't even to discuss his other pathological short comings since Holmgren left.

It's idiots like you that look thru the Favre issue with simple sparkly rose colored sunglasses and say we would be so great with him. It's your type that point out everything wrong with managmeent and the franchise when Favre is losing, and give Favre all the credit when a team is winning. When he inevitably collapses later in the season you will be first in line as his personal apologist.

If anything, you should be angry that Favre stopped playing with this type of focus since Mike Holmgren's departure. Hell, Jets fans should be just as pissed.

Btw, I have no problem saying that Rodgers behined center for the Vikings yesterday on that Vikings team would put up 60 pts against a Favre lead Packers.

You've put a very flawed, disengenuous man on a pedastal. I hope you're a little more intellectually curious about the rest of the world. Nevermind, I'm sure a world of blissful ignorance is nice and shiny. Enjoy your alternative Favre-based world.

If McCarthy is deliberately adhering to his scheme over making adjustments, then a possible reason for him doing so is to prove a point to Ted Thompson that the players Thompson has signed are not sufficient for what McCarthy wants. In other words, TT and MM are not in sync with each other and they are letting their disagreement supercede team welfare.

I am commenting on the statement that McCarthy isn't adapting to competitive pressures by changing his scheme mid - game. I am not necessarily agreeing with that assertion.

CSS, thanks for writing that, so i didn't have to. All the Favre lovers need to stop with the Favre idolization. It's getting really old. This guy is so flawed. He is willing to give up the love and adoration from Packer Nation to do what? To win a SB? To keep playing football? If it was to win a SB, then why did he retire when he was one play away from going to the SB in 07'/08'. We have heard him say a thousand times he is proud of his career, and that he has nothing to prove. Then why toy with retirement for 5 years now? If I were a GM, I would have been tired of it too.

Hey, I love this site, but lay off the Favreaggeddon thing. It sounded as if you knew that Favre would play well, and that your bowing to an inevitable loss. I say treat Favre like a normal opposing player. The past is the past, and we need to worry about the present and future of the Pack.

Ha! one poster had it right... if you wanted to get rid of Favre all you had to do is let him continue to play behind the coaching and decisions of TT staffing that led to the OL in GB!

Rodgers does not throw down, away or take any risks... sure it helps his stats but it's not going to win any games... the all time winning QB in NFL history (you know who) also holds the Intercep record! why? Sometimes you have to let others (the receivers) attempt to make a play too! Rodgers stats are not affected by his sacks but the win loss column sure is. He is the leader of the team and must play with the cards he has been dealt. Favre took this team to 13-3 and 1 play from a SB appearance ... the very year before the same team went to 6-10 under Rodgers ... you just cannot out argue the facts. Favre's departure negatively impacted the Packers team, players and fans.

CSS
I do not have to use name-calling or disrespect in my posts to prove my point as CSS does above...only the facts. Anything else is usually just a disguise for lack of thinking. As for the Jets, Favre took them to 9-7 from 4-12 WTIHOUT a preseason... look at them now that he's gone?!? Look at the Pack season after he left... look at them this year again....Your arguments are all ad hominem.

To say in one last time before I go:

The coaching and staff decisions that were reflected in the last two rival games is only an extension of what we saw in the decision making in the summer of 08.

Unfortunately, the wrong personnel left GB in 08 ! Now get use to the consequences must be suffered...Thompson and McCarthy have and they will attempt to lull you to sleep in it.

When Thompson and McCarthy are long gone, Favre will come back, retire his number, have his name listed on the wall of fame and enter the HALL OF FAME – and then all that support for the current management will only appear foolish (if is doesn’t already).

Bob, you see only through Favre-colored glasses. He's in Minnie now...shouldn't you be there worshipping him?

Seriously, as hard is it is for me to type this, the Packer's are not at the same level as the Vikes right now. We were deceived by preseason. We were not as improved as we had hoped for. We have a good, young QB. We have some good O & D players, yet we still lack on our lines, RBs, ILB's, and D-secondary. Our special teams are not special. Our coaches are not special. They aren't teachers, and they don't hold players accountable.

We have nine more games to see where this team is really at. We should just suck it up and be patient fans until the end of the season, and hope our off-season addresses all known problems. That includes a hard look at the front office and coaching staff.

Go Pack!

Jim. You summed up everything I was thinking. Thank you.

Guys,

Disagreeing with a management decision over a player is hardly 'worship' for that player - e.g. if that were so, you're agreeing with McCarthy and TT would only signal your unrelenting worship of them despite their bad choices as well ... it runs both ways... whatever you feel about Favre's handling of the situation, letting him go was not the right decision for the players or the team - terrible timing. More immediate changes and attention should have been poised elsewhere (which is more than obvious watching the past 1 1/2 seasons), but once pride and control got into it folks lost their heads.

I hope the snooze fest is not setting in GB.... i.e. where fans feel now they must defend TT and McCarthy at all cost in order to prove that giving up one of the best QBs in NFL history was the right thing to do (i.e. go read that goofy transcript of McCarthy explaining how they lost to Vikes on the Packer.com site - it hardly makes sense but I'm sure Packer zombies will just faithfully take it or is that 'worship' it).

Worship them (as you defined it toward supporters of Favre) if you must, I will wait till they are gone before returning to the Packer bench. Then good players (like Rodgers!) may have a chance at becoming something great at Green BAy.