Eyes Front: It’s the Battle of the Most Despised Coordinators!
Also, the Steelers ain't the Rams.
Mike Tomlin has been head coach of the Steelers for 16 years, during which time they have never had a losing season. Mike Tomlin is a very good coach, and the Steelers are not the Rams. Pittsburgh will not be a gracious host Sunday.
But the game is sure to be entertaining, as it will feature an epic showdown between the two coordinators most hated by their respective fan bases in modern NFL history. In Pittsburgh, people have been urging offensive coordinator Matt Canada to check out the inside of a lime kiln while it is in operation, while Green Bay fans want DC Joe Barry to paddle out to the middle of Lake Michigan in an under-inflated children’s swim ring. How the oddsmakers set the over/under for this extravaganza is a mystery, and the league is missing a bet if it doesn’t flex this one to prime time.
So what can we expect?
Last weekend we saw Green Bay’s free-fall into horribleness halted — at least temporarily — albeit against a Rams team with as much inexperience as the Packers, and which was forced to play its lousy backup quarterback. Still, Matt LaFleur got back to a reasonable facsimile of the offense we saw in the first couple of weeks: Pre-snap motion, a little trickeration in play design, more use of the middle of the field. A healthy, fully utilized Aaron Jones certainly helped, as did a defense that was more aggressive than we’ve seen all year. But any time you best Sean McVay it’s a win.
Most importantly, LaFleur played the kids, sometimes out of necessity, but it seems the team is finally getting serious about flipping to full evaluation mode and worrying less about wins and losses. Seeing more minutes from guys like Carrington Valentine, Sean Rhyan, Anthony Johnson and Emmanuel Wilson is critical to plotting a successful path going forward. They and several other youngsters will struggle, but that’s OK. They’ll either get better or wash out, and that’s a good thing.
The Steelers are a bend-but-don’t break enterprise. Known for their defense, they rank 31st in overall D, yet they rank third in fewest touchdowns allowed. In general, their 5-3 record is far better than their stats would suggest.
And they have one of the best pass rushers in the league in TJ Watt, yet another In a long line of Wisconsin linebackers the Packers have passed on. (Instead, Green Bay traded back and took Kevin King.) Statistically, Pittsburgh is better against the pass than the run, providing opportunity for Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon to do some damage. Advantage Packers if they seize it.
On offense, the Steelers rank 24th in both rushing and passing yards per game, so if nothing else Mr. Canada’s attack is balanced. Kenny Pickett is learning while doing just as Jordan Love is, and he is surrounded by some young talent, like wideout George Pickens and RB Jaylen Warren. Joe Barry’s crew will be going up against a much tougher O-line than last week.
Bottom line is, the Steelers win more than they lose, and have beaten good teams like Cleveland and Baltimore. Green Bay’s best opportunity is a ball control approach, with a run game that eats clock and a middle-distance passing attack off play action. If Love is accurate, uses his legs and the O-line blocks like last week in the run game, Green Bay can show real progress.
But where Tomlin bests most of his coaching rivals is in superior game planning for the team he’s facing, and overall toughness on the field, neither of which are Green Bay’s strong suits.
With the injury bug continuing to bite the Packers, it will be a difficult battle against Pittsburgh. It always is.
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Jonathan Krim grew up in New York but got hooked on the Packers — and on hating the Cowboys — watching the Ice Bowl as a young child. He blames bouts of unhappiness in his late teens on Dan Devine. A journalist for several decades who now lives in California, he enjoys trafficking in obscure cultural references, lame dad jokes and occasionally preposterous takes. Jonathan is a Packers shareholder, and insists on kraut with his brats. You can follow Jonathan on twitter at @Jkrim.
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Comments (43)
T7Steve
November 10, 2023 at 07:24 am
On offense (as always), try to dominate on the line of scrimmage. They have other wreckers besides TJ.
On defense, Pickett while the Pickens good. (Shamelessly stollen from yesterday's Insider Inbox.)
Jonathan, I suppose it would have tilted the story too much in Pittsburg's favor to compare their rankings besides the Packers. 24th on offense sounds worse than it probably is. How can a D that gives up the 3rd fewest points be ranked 31 overall? Tells me all I need to know about how misleading statistics can be.
Just beat the Steelers and get closer in the W/L stats.
Rarescope
November 10, 2023 at 08:30 am
As I expected, mentioning the insider inbox round these parts will get you a downvote. Far too reasonable of takes going on over there for any real football fan. Ironically the only reason I’m here was to have something to read until it gets posted so thanks for the II pregame post ;)
Coldworld
November 10, 2023 at 08:38 am
Not my downvote, but that site is too scrubbed and sycophantic these days to give much credence to or have a great deal of interest in.
T7Steve
November 10, 2023 at 09:11 am
Yes, it's Slim Pickens (another steal from today) over there but I have to follow it because my only alternative is to do my work.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 10, 2023 at 03:58 pm
Work is for those who don't follow football
Lol
stockholder
November 10, 2023 at 07:30 am
I see Monty Adams at Nt. And Sullivan is the NB.
Go Jones go is my response. And pick on Sullivan.
As far as the Defense -
Pickett will make mistakes.
Keep the ball away from him in the 4th.
jannesbjornson
November 10, 2023 at 08:35 am
Keeanu Benton probably takes the D line spot next to Heyward. Montravious is dealing with a bad ankle. I would torch Sullivan all day long. He should have Rhyan start this game to churn yardage and kick butt.
Oppy
November 11, 2023 at 07:57 am
It seems like only a few weeks ago Rhyan was being used as proof of Gutekunst's incompetence.
Since'61
November 10, 2023 at 07:59 am
Despite the teams respective W/L records the Packers and Steelers are similar to each other because they are both better on the defensive side of the ball. The Steelers offnese has scored even less than the Packers offense. The Steelers defense has been more consistent that the Packers but the Packers should be good enough to contain the Steelers offense and keep the game close.
The Steelers are coming off a mini-bye, they are playing at home and they are better coached. I know that I would trade head coaches straight up with the Steelers it was possible. If the season ended today the Steelers would have the 5th seed in the AFC. They need this game more than the Packers and that could be a factor.
I just want to see the Packers come out and play hard as they did against the Rams regardless of the result. I don't want the Rams game to ba a chimera in the Packers season. Let's continue to see the Packers stack success at least in terms of players improving and providing hope for 2024 and beyond. At the least clean up the penalties and the turnovers. Play solidly and let the chips fall where they may. Go Pack Go! Thanks, Since '61
T7Steve
November 10, 2023 at 09:15 am
If they clean up the penalties and turnovers they could beat the world.
Since'75
November 10, 2023 at 06:48 pm
Well...it might take a little more than that.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 10, 2023 at 04:01 pm
Exactly! This season it's about development. That happens best with 100% effort. Preparation? Game plan? Coaching?
I'm not holding my breath. Maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised again.
Since'75
November 10, 2023 at 07:05 pm
The question is, and this won't be popular.....
Why are we developing rookies during the season on the field, some as starters?
Why are we relying on rookie draft class's for immediate production and success, am i the only one that see's this as an issue?
Did we need rookies to produce when we won Super Bowls?
This is about as far as you can get from draft and develop.
Now we have some fans wanting to tank for a new QB.
Where is this team going?
A (during the season) work in progress that may or may not work out?
What was the drama of the last 3 years for?
If anyone answered any of these questions with.......bad drafting, bad team management, bad roster building strategy...mismanagement.
You may be on to something.
BROKEN
Tundraboy
November 11, 2023 at 02:26 am
Now that's a game plan Since '61. I hope to see that Sunday.. Progress, progress,progress.
Since'61
November 11, 2023 at 06:50 am
👍. Thanks, Since '61
Coldworld
November 10, 2023 at 08:05 am
The Steelers have not passed for more than 240 yards this year. In fact he’s only done so 3 times in his career. If they win, it’s through turnovers often caused by Watt and by Highsmith and getting yards on the ground, which has been a struggle this year, but not in their last game.
Pickens is better than Rhypien, but their O shouldn’t beat our O through the air easily, Jaire or no Jaire. The key is stopping the run and thus minimizing play action that’s been their best tactic in the passing game. We also need to be willing to let our CBs play tightly and aggressively like last week. Soft coverage is what they will pray for.
Then it’s on LaFleur not to be whipped tactically. Their D is combative and looks for turnovers. They give up yards but very few TDs, counting on taking the ball away and bending but not breaking. We have to get a ground game going and we have to not rely on long 50:50 balls.
We need smart use of bunches and crossing patterns and avoid isolation deep routes. They give up time of possession, but we need to turn that into TDs if we are going to win. We cannot drop lots of balls. Let’s hope last week’s sure hands continue.
Guam
November 10, 2023 at 09:15 am
"Then it's on LaFleur not to be whipped tactically."
Good luck.
Tomlin is one of the best head coaches in the league. LaFleur isn't. Advantage Pittsburgh.
CheesedDeadHead
November 10, 2023 at 09:42 am
"Tomlin is one of the best head coaches in the league. LaFleur isn't. Advantage Pittsburgh."
I don't have enough knowledge of all the other coaches in the NFL to make a decision on whether MLF is even in the top 32, but last night it occurred to me that the Panthers have the talent level to match LaFleur's coaching.
Since'75
November 10, 2023 at 07:09 pm
You have a good bead on this game CW.
LambeauPlain
November 10, 2023 at 08:07 am
At the halfway point in the season, looking at your opponents W-L record of the teams they defeated has been a good predictor for me.
The Steelers 5 wins are against teams with a 22-21 combined record. Beat the Browns, Raiders, Ravens, Rams and Titans. Their signature win was beating 7-2 Ravens. They keep games close, find ways to win with Pickett leading late game winning drives (that's a concern!) and forcing turnovers.
Packers 3 wins against the bares, Saints, and Rams. 11-17 combined record with the signature win against the Saints at 5-4.
On Offense, the Pack should be patient and run the ball to open up the pass. Tomlin knows this too. MLF is going to have a real coaching challenge on pass offense, especially if the OL is again shuffled.
On Defense, the Packers SHOULD hold serve. The key is if the Packer front will control the Steelers OL. If Barry again plays more pressure D with a heavy rotation with Brooks and Wooden spelling the starters they SHOULD be able to play complimentary football. But the Steelers have scored 20 or more points in 7 of 8 games.
Feels like a close game on the road. STs and turnovers will probably tell the tale. Wildcard is Coaching. Advantage Tomlin there. Heart says a close win. Brain says close loss.
CheesedDeadHead
November 10, 2023 at 09:47 am
"Packers 3 wins against the bares, Saints, and Rams. 11-17 combined record with the signature win against the Saints at 5-4. "
Reminds me of when I was growing up and the Badgers football team was hot garbage. They would beat several 3rd division schools in non-conference play to start out with 2 or 3 wins and then during the Big10 schedule only lose to OSU and Michigan by 50 points on the way to a 1-8 conference record.
Rossonero
November 10, 2023 at 08:21 am
While the Steelers are a better team, they're also better coached. I'm not getting too excited over beating a Matthew Stafford-less Rams team at home. Our only wins have come against the Derek Carr-less Saints (after playing like hot garbage for 3 quarters) and week 1 win over the pathetic Bears.
I was heartened by some of the play calling by LaFleur - been waiting for that for a while. Maybe watching film of the Rams reminded him of what he had drifted away from so much. Still though, this team can't go a kick-off or punt without a penalty, and we're probably averaging around 7-8 penalties per game. That's insane.
Steelers 27, Packers 17
LeotisHarris
November 10, 2023 at 08:32 am
"In Pittsburgh, people have been urging offensive coordinator Matt Canada to check out the inside of a lime kiln while it is in operation, while Green Bay fans want DC Joe Barry to paddle out to the middle of Lake Michigan in an under-inflated children’s swim ring."
I don't have access to the cookie jar. '61, could you please give a couple of delicious cookies to Johnathan for this gem? Thanks to him, I'm picturing Joe in swim fins with an under-inflated duck around his waist.
TKWorldWide
November 10, 2023 at 08:41 am
JB is despised?
SicSemperTyrannis
November 10, 2023 at 04:06 pm
Yes he is. Pitchforks and torches level.
TxFred
November 10, 2023 at 09:00 am
Right out of the box, if the Steelers play ass kicking football the game is over. Smash mouth football is a foreign concept to MLF & crew. Toughness, meanness, aggressiveness is a brand of football MLF doesn't coach. More "entertainment filth" and it will show up as soon as Steelers, start kicking ass. So sad, it's sickening.
HarryHodag
November 10, 2023 at 09:21 am
Pittsburgh 13
Green Bay 3
NFLfan
November 10, 2023 at 09:54 am
I'll check-in periodically with hands covering my eyes.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 10, 2023 at 04:08 pm
It could be brutal.
I hope JL starts with his hair on fire. For a change.
CanPackFan
November 10, 2023 at 10:11 am
The big question mark to me is GBs Oline? You never know who Steno and Butkus feel are the 5 "best" this week? I have no idea how much influence MLF has on those decisions which makes it even more of a wildcard? Will it be their "favorites"? The supposed "more reliable" veterans? Isn't this supposed to be an "evaluation" season?
While last week was likely an outlier, the youthful energy shown by the younger, less experienced players was evident. And, most importantly, the toughness. I sincerely hope we play the toughest Oline people we have, experience aside. We need the running game to work. It will help Love immeasurably.
The question mark is LaFleur? Can he get out of his "soft play" comfort zone and dictate a tougher game plan? Because we sure as heck know that Tomlin is going to bring it on Sunday! And it starts, and likely ends, with choices on GBs Oline.
Lphill
November 10, 2023 at 10:21 am
I can't understand why some here still think Kevin King was the better pick then TJ Watt , that's all this game reminds me of.
jhtobias
November 10, 2023 at 11:00 am
For the life of me I still laugh st people whp keep bringing up something that happenned 7 years ago. People act like this was trading away the first pick in the draft and set the franchise back 20 years.
29 other teams passed up on watt also . Get over and move foward .
Lphill
November 10, 2023 at 04:02 pm
and look who’s the better player 7 years later , while King is stocking shelves in Walmart trying not to pull a hammy .
TKWorldWide
November 10, 2023 at 11:27 am
I think King’s love of tacos is underrated as well.
(Please down vote if you haven’t seen the TV commercial.)
LeotisHarris
November 10, 2023 at 03:00 pm
You're lucky, Lp. I can't get the 1967 loss to the Steelers out of my head. I don't understand how some here still think a home loss 56 years ago shouldn't ruin their day. The Steelers scored on a 21 yard interception return, and a 28 yard fumble recovery. Two defensive touchdowns!
I see Mike Tomlin and that's all this game reminds me of, then I hang my head and cry. Stay strong, brother. Hopefully one day we'll both be free of our demons.
Bitternotsour
November 10, 2023 at 03:26 pm
If you look hard and strong at that game it showed that football had really passed Lombardi by at that point. The players, well, they just had drown out his messaging altogether.
I'm pretty sure Bart threw that interception as a message to the board. I realize he called his own plays, but even there, well, he was giving Lombardi the finger.
LeotisHarris
November 10, 2023 at 03:00 pm
.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 10, 2023 at 04:09 pm
LP,
who thinks that?
Tundraboy
November 10, 2023 at 07:12 pm
Exactly there's enough things to be concerned about with this team to keep your mind occupied and in my case focused on development playing the young guys and the draft next year. And I know we'll have the Watt/ King reminders, but to me that pales in comparison to some othe drafts. All you have to do is think back to Mandarich ,if your too young to remember that Travesty. If we can get over that we can get over anything.
Oppy
November 11, 2023 at 08:19 am
Sometimes, I like to make up a conflicting viewpoint that doesn't exist in order to bitch and whine about the past.
PhantomII
November 10, 2023 at 02:51 pm
I have always loved this pic of Rich getting ready to rip the D-call sheet from Joes hands....We can only imagine which play call made it unbearable for another coach on the sideline to be in awe of the play.....Doesn't it make one feel somehow validated for the same feeling.....weekly...LOL....GPG. Thank you Packers for finally getting a ST coach after all these years. Coaches are important at every level. I don't believe GB will remove a lot of coaches, so since our run game needs to be stronger...can we please establish lifting thresholds each OL member needs to increase to make him a better blocker as well as more technique drills to use the strength to move another player. That seems pretty basic...but one does wonder what is really going on there.
Boneman
November 11, 2023 at 07:31 am
I'm less against JB than many. He isn't the one missing assignments, tackles and/or taking stupid penalties. That said, if we line up in off coverage and allow 8 yards on 3rd and 9 one more time... The crazy thing is you see it coming almost immediately. The Steelers run the same type of bend but don't break D that we supposedly do, but they do it better. I'd just as soon see the young defensive backs play instead of our regulars (Jaire/Savage/Ford). They are playing for their careers and it shows in aggressiveness and run D. Too many 'business decisions' by those regulars. This game can really go either way but will almost certainly be close. Packers 20-19.
Qoojo
November 11, 2023 at 08:28 am
I felt that the packers played about the same against the Rams last week and the key difference was the inept backup qb for rams.
Based on summary in article, the key to watch is if the steelers can run against the packers. Then for the offense, it's all about if the OL can hold up.
The article makes it sound like the packers have a good chance to win the game. Before reading it, I put the game down as the offense will score 10 to 16 points, and packers will lose.