It's a sad state of affairs when you see so many unhappy fans coming off of a 26-0 game that their team won.
I recognize that 'the manner in which' is important, but come on people - we're given 16 (or a few more, if we're lucky) glorious Sunday afternoons to watch our beloved Packers. Enjoy the win.
we're all happy with the win. i think most just don't feel its necessary to express that happiness on a blog - it's obvious enough that a win is a win to a certain extent.
i'm surprised i haven't seen a few commentors writing similar things "boy, you guys are pissy! we won! boo rah rah!" etc., etc.
it's true. but what's also true is that this team seams to win despite its offensive coaching, rather than because of it. and the whole team is too reliant on having the starters available -- I know that sounds ridiculous, injuries should affect any team, but nowhere near as much as they affect the packers. when everyone is healthy, this is a very good team. but i believe that if this team had ditched poppinga and bush long ago, among others, and focused on seeking reliable backups at key positions (safety, o-line), we may well be 4-1 or 5-0 right now.
yes, we got the win, and yes it was defensively impressive. bigby and matthews mean a lot to this team right now. but i'm sure you know and agree (i believe this post is a little bit of a devil's advocate one), that packer fans know that blanking the lions in october means nothing when you're getting pounded by the big boys in december - with no running game (or attempt at one), a quarterback with six broken limbs and 47 broken ribs, and backups that would be on practice squads most other places.
i'm happy, but not enough to write about it.
BUT, in an attempt to be positive:
-kampman had is hand on the ground. positive adjustment
-matthews played, brady didn't. positive change.
-our receivers stopped dropping balls (and continued making remarkable catches), james jones got involved. positive change.
-we didn't even let the lions THINK about getting back into this game. no letdown defensively despite the offense stalling.
did clifton come back to quickly? can the trainers just coat raji's ankle in epoxy and be done with it? is jordy okay? have we made a single attempt to trade for a lineman? are we really going to be so thick as to trade bishop?
I enjoyed it, but when you expect it, the enjoyment only lasts so long. The team played like crap against the Bears and won, and that was much more enjoyable because it was obvious that the Bears were a much better team this season than the last. The Lions might as well have been the Wolverines. They were not a good team, at all, and it was obvious to everyone on the planet who saw the game.
All that said, a divisional win is good, no matter when or where you get it. If the defense plays like they did yesterday, this team will be right there in every game. But if the offense plays like they did yesterday, one defensive slip-up could bury this team. It's a scary reality.
If you enjoy watching the Badgers beat Minnesota and Northwestern every year, and lose to Ohio State and Penn State every year, you'll enjoy watching these Packers. There's something to be said for wanting to see your team take that next step, and there's nothing wrong with being frustrated when they don't. Expectations were very high this year, and they've crashed hard.
joshy - I think you're wrong about the o-line. I think the Packers have plenty of quality backups in that group. They just lack quality starters.
Lebowski nailed it.
jayme - are you saying that they shouldn't sell themselves short, that they're tremendous slouches?
lebowski - how can expectations crash in Week 6? There's tons of football left to be played.
Let's see....absolutely no running game, porous offensive line, record pace for sacks and penalties, another top draft pick that can't stay healthy, safeties one inevitable injury away from being a disaster again this year... need I go on? I fear there is a ton of football left to played- a ton of bad football.
But I do hope they prove me wrong:)
And how is that any different than what we saw in 2007? All those issues were prevalent and yet they were one play away from the Super Bowl.
Uhhh, didn't you start this with your gut reactions, LOL
Rookie hurt? Jenkins and Jolly are playing lights out, Raji is a backup. This is a good thing.
I'll turn everything into a positive today. Good coffee this morning....and lots of it.
This is true, Aaron. Despite reoccuring negative themes, we really won't know how good this team is until we start playing some good teams-- that is, unless we loose to a bad one like the Lions. Until then, you might as well enjoy it.
AIA - I pointed out some things right after the game, sure. But the morning after and I'm beaming. Not so everyone else, it would seem...
"And how is that any different than what we saw in 2007? "
In 2007 the Packers gave up 15 sacks in 16 games. This year 25 sacks in 5 games. THAT is how it is different.
And when those sacks cause us to go with Matt Flynn, well, .... sorry, we're trying to keep this all positive today.
I hear you on the sacks. They have taken the place of the INTs Favre would throw. That's a fine tradeoff for me.
I'd also like to add fuel to the fire by mentioning that OUR 5th round draft pick is starting at RT - FOR THE BILLS!!!!!! WTF?
3 FBs on the roster, and we light a 5th round draft pick on fire by cutting the guy. Really, Korey Hall makes a difference on this team? And WTF is the deal with Giacomini? He's somehow more valuable than Meredith? Has he seen the field yet?
The fact that the Packers have given up 25 sacks in 5 friggin games, and Meredith is STARTING for another team is appalling. That alone has ruined my week.
Nagler is just trying to bring balance to the force.
If everyone was ecstatic about the Packer win, he would post that fans need to settle down.
He is very Yoda-like.
"In 2007 the Packers gave up 15 sacks in 16 games. This year 25 sacks in 5 games. THAT is how it is different."
You know what is weird about that? Campen coached both groups. How has he forgotten how to coach in just two years?
It's sort of like when Beightol was a god in Green Bay and then went to the Lions and was canned after only one season.
If I didn't know better by reading sports blogs, I'd almost conclude that the quality of players matters much more than who the position coach is.
" I’d almost conclude that the quality of players matters much more than who the position coach is."
A different quarterback is making a huge difference as well.
Really Aaron, so somehow the team goes from 25 TOTAL sacks allowed last season to 25 through FIVE GAMES this season and yet the QB is somehow at fault? Please. I know you and Bedard love to rip Rodgers for holding the ball too long, but to say that there's a HUGE difference due to the QB from '07 and the QB now is silly. The line is bad, period, and lots of passes have been dropped. End of explanation.
Where have I said the Oline is NOT terrible? I haven't. I have said that they are terrible and that Rodgers is holding the ball too long. Both can be (and are)true.
You deemed the move from Favre to Rodgers as a "huge difference." It is not. Favre has been sacked 14 times already this season, and if you throw out the Minnesota game, he has been sacked 14 times to Rodgers' 17. I highly doubt Favre would have any less sacks behind this line and with this play-calling.
I was just giving you a hard time Aaron. I listed my causes for concern yesterday one time but, as I usually do, have backed off repeating them. I tend to say nothing as opposed to repeating negatives (unless we are talking about #4 (!*%$!). Let's just say I'm not looking at things through MM colored glasses. I'm thrilled we won and even more thrilled we could be 5-2 after the MN game in 2 weeks. That's the plan and I'm sticking to it
BTW, don't you think we should have given Flynn some PT in th 4th quarter yesterday, if for no other eason than to avoid injury to Rodgers?
AIA - completely agree on playing Flynn. Get him in there.
First of all, DDD nailed it.
And does anyone have the data about when did Rodgers was sacked for holding too much? I totally agree that he's holding the ball too much, but if he's doing so on 3rd downs, as long as he's not losing FG position, getting sacked and throwing the ball away are equally bad. Now, if he's getting sacked by holding the ball too much on 1st and 2nd downs, then we got a problem...
Playing Flynn to give him a few reps is fine. He needs all the experience he can get. When the outcome of the game is secure, no problem. You bring him in with the game on the line and it all over for the season. That will be a disaster.
Ron, I don't think anyone's advocating putting Flynn in if the game is on the line. But a blowout in the 4th quarter is different. Anyone else get a glimpse of McCarthy's press conference? "Have to address penalties". "Pre snap ones unacceptable". "Players not undisciplined". "Not as clean as we need to be". "Protection problems result of communication". And my personal favorite, "Thought we ran the ball well". Rinse, repeat. Good lord.
It was was still a 3 TD + FG game going into the 4th qtr. Not a blow out in my mind.
'Going into 4th quarter', yes. 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter, no.
This was my exact sentiment. Can you be upset at some of the issues the team has? Absolutely. Aaron's Gut Reactions was a great summary of the good and bad of the game. There's no problem highlighting some of the areas that (still) need to be worked on. The problem is when you take that information and your start declaring the team a failure and that you lose faith in the coaching, etc, etc. After they WON 26-0. They must have done SOMETHING right, don't you think? As much as you want to pass it off to the Lions sucking, they haven't been shut out in years. There's things to be proud of from this game and there's things to shake your head at. But I just can't wrap my head around the idea that you could come away from this game dissappointed. As Aaron said there are precious few games in the season...you have to enjoy the good moments when they come. And a 26-0 victory has to be one of those moments, I'd think.
To all the "enjoy the win" types: the big picture view of Sunday's win is, against the majority of the teams in the NFL, 13 penalties for 130 yards and the inability to reach the end zone from inside the red zone won't get the job done! Yes, it's always good to win. Walking away from said game, however, with the aftertaste like that does not promote optimism about the rest of the season.
At least we aren't being lulled into a false sense of security - like some were during the preseason when the starters on both side of the line appeared to be all-pro.
Actually, the whole O-line issue can be boiled down to this: Favre would have winged it to avoid the sack - Rodgers at least has the sense to avoid the turnover.
"the big picture view of Sunday’s win is..." that with Unemployment at 10%, two wars going on and countless other "real world" problems, 26-0 is fantastic no matter the flaws.
I am in disbelief with the amount of naysayers posting on this blog. Everybody here knows that there are issues that need to be addressed. Looking at our two losses, Minnesota and Cinci, the O-line has been the biggest issue. We came a touchdown away from being in both of those games come the end of regulation. But to throw in the towel after week 6, sitting 3-2 and second in the division, coming off of a rare shut out victory in the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE is just absurd. The coaching staff lives and dies by being able to solve these problems, if the people we have no can't solve them, we will find someone else. To listen to you all have no faith in the possibility of improvement just disgusts me. The fact of the matter is we have the talent to win football games on that alone, with some inspired discipline and work up front, this could be a dangerous team. I am truly excited for the rest of this season.
nzelie - welcome to Cheesehead TV ;)
The coaching staff lives and dies being able to solve problems. Thanks for the laugh, nzelie.
I was not celebrating this win much either. Its pretty bad when my 8 year old is screaming... "Another penalty!?!" at the TV during the game. In my opinion, looking at the remaining schedule. I do see us going 9-7 from here on out, fighting Atlanta for the final Wildcard spot.
Big L, I was wrong about 3 td's + FG, it should have been 3 td's + 2 FG's. And I agree after 8 minutes he should have played for no other reason than to keep Aaron from getting killed (BY THE DETROIT LIONS).
1. Nelson out for two weeks
2. Clifton not serious (editors note: keep him out until healed completely - Lang did just fine thanks)
3. BJ Raji reaggravated his ankle injury - limited practice this week
I decided to go back to the DVR for answers to some questions. The main one being, is Rodgers really too slow? I used a small hand held digital stopwatch to do my timing, so there is probably a +/- variance of a couple of tenths here and there.
First, most of Rodgers throw were delivered between 2 and 3.5 seconds, with a few 1 sec (quick throw to the flankers).
Next, the few passes that took more than 4 seconds were for substantial gains and one throw away.
#1 2.3 sec. - Avril just blew by Barbre without being touched.
#2 3.5 sec. - Tackle break down on both sides. Rodgers stepped into the pocket and was taken down by middle rushers. Both Guards and Center standing without touching a defender.
#3 2.1 sec. _ Clifton looked outside and no one was there, Colledge blocked down and doubled up with Wells. LB had unimpeded access to Rodgers
#4 4.2 sec. - No receiver cleared coverage in the end zone. Held the ball because he still between the tackles and couldn't dump the ball without a receiver near by. Lost 1 yard.
#5 3.5 sec. - Colledge missed a pickup for Clifton taking an outside blitz. Barbre's man beat him with speed. Rodgers saw Barbre's man and started to throw and Colledges' man grabbed his arm and fumbled. This was the play Clifton got hurt.
Summary - Only one sack was 4 secs. That was near the goal line and well within FG range. The rest of his passes were within respectable time limits. Hence, it is not Rodgers it is the O line. The passes that took more than 4 secs were all for substantial gains and one throw away.
Good breakdown, Ron. I must admit I don't spend enough time watching the offensive linemen during the actual game, but I'm stunned at how many times people who do break down games mention a lineman standing around not blocking anyone. HAT ON A HAT, PEOPLE!!!
fARVE IS JUST ANOTHER QUARTER BACK HOPING TO WIN A GAME IN GREEN BAY...i SEE NO REASON FOR THE FANS IN GREEN BAY TO FLOOD HIM WITH A BUNCH OF YELLING AND HONORING HIM.. HE IS HERE TO BEAT THE PACK AND WE ARE HERE TO WIN.......
HIS EGO IS 210 % BRENT BRENT WHO REALLY CARES EXCEPT BRET !!!!!!!!
I think Rodgers should ask to be traded. He is not appreciated in GB. Not many QB's would have been able to put up with the BS from the fans the way he has. Their golden boy chose to retire, I mean play with the Vikes.
MM on penalties:
"I don't think it is that we're not disciplined, I think we just have to keep working on it and get it fixed." Let's not forget Pad Levels.
Oh, and MM thought the running game was very productive yseterday.
He probably just doesn't believe in trashing his team in public. Just like Rodgers said, that doesn't do any good.
Over the last two games, of the 13 sacks, 6 were on first down, 4 were on second down and 3 were on 3rd down.
In case anyone was wondering...
DOOOOOOMSDAY! 11/1/09 The Man, The Myth, The legend returns. Face it GB, he is the best all round of all time. You can Hate all you want, but you are only fooling yourself. He will be the greatest GB QB of all time an the GOAT of the NFL (Greatest Of All Time = GOAT) Rodgers is good, Farve Is GOD. Beware! There is PURPLE STORM Approaching.
Just for the sake of being optimistic:
There's alot of you who feel the Packers have "Crashed" already. And I get it, things don't look the way the should. I really do get that, there's lots of problems.
But the Packers have only played 5 games. Remember how the Giants looked 5 games into the 2007 season? The season isn't scrapped just yet.
The Packers are 3-2. That's five games, 3-2. Multiply that by 3 (15 games) and you're looking at 9-6. Win that last game and the Packers are 10-6.
Yes, yes.. I know, the schedule gets tougher and all that jazz. There's time for improvement. The good news is there IS talent on the field. The Packers have been shooting themselves in the foot more often than not. That's a good thing- Well, not a good thing, but at least that means it can be corrected. Again, vs. MIN the Packers played lousy, gave up 9 sacks, Favre played lights out, and the Pack STILL stayed in the game with the chance to tie it up in the final seconds. All is not lost.
"Favre" fans are forced to cheer for the queens. Queens fans are forced to cheer for the guy they hated the most. I cheer for the Green Bay Packers, not for a person.
"Oh, and MM thought the running game was very productive yseterday."
Really? Because everything I heard from MM regarding this subject is that the running game wasn't a problem last game, because we could just keep throwing and shredding their defense. That doesn't translate to him saying the running game was productive.
Will you please make sure to come back here around week 11 or so and re-affirm your position on Favre, just to remind us all?
And then, please come back after week 16 and post Brett's stats for the last 5 games he's played?
-a guy who's watched Brett Favre's play crumble at the end of the season for the last 5 years in GB (And once in NY)
@Ron La Canne:
Your comment about "MM on Penalties" is ridiculously taken out of context.
If you just read a blurb of the interview, You should go back and read the two or three questions & responses that precede the fragment you're referring to.
If you DID read the whole press conference, you are intentionally omitting the direct statements about penalties and instead you have posted a comment he made when a reporter was insinuating that perhaps Packers players may go out of their way to make illegal plays.
If the latter is the case, you are basically running a smear campaign. Tsk, Tsk.
If the Packers can get to 5-2, I'll believe. Right now, notsomuch. At 5-2, they'd only have to go 5-4 to be in a good position for a WC spot in their "tough" part of the schedule.
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