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Ed Gruberman Packer Fan Must Learn Patience

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Ed Gruberman Packer Fan Must Learn Patience

" Sensei: No,  we have not even begun upon this path. Ed Gruberman, you must learn patience.

"Ed Gruberman: Yeah, yeah, yeah patience! How long is that going to take?"  - "Boot to the Head", The Frantics

---------------------------

Seriously?

Al Davis at Packernet decided to vent his frustration at the recent non-signing and non-tagging of Sam Shields with a vitriolic rant that teetered on the same precarious ledge of sanity last seen around the summer of 2008.

The Green Bay Packers refuse to sign other team’s free agents and now they apparently refuse to sign their own. So much for draft and develop. Today the Packers let one of their most valuable defensive players walk by not using the franchise or transition tag on cornerback Sam Shields. Other teams are certainly not as stupid as the Packers so Shields will be long gone once free agency starts.

Mind you, I'm not one to try and give other sites a little free publicity, but this was so banal, I really felt the need to draw attention to it. Like, in the "here's what not to do if you are a Packer fan" kind of way.

There's plenty to be concerned about in Packerland, no doubt. The Packers are at a crossroads, perhaps even looking at a major rebuild. We could potentially miss the playoffs next season as we try and develop players to fill multiple holes--that one draft ain't going to fill in one fell swoop.

And let me tell you right now: it's perfectly natural.

In fact, it's by design. And I've been saying it for years.

There's a huge difference between Sam Shields, the cornerback the Packers have on their roster, and Sam Shields, the guy who wants a top-10 cornerback contract (or a tag that eats up a third of the available cap space).  The question is whether you're going to pay the guy as if he's an NFL elite.

But is he elite, or just the best we have right now? Hey, about a year ago at this time, a lot of people were celebrating the Morgan Burnett contract extension. After all, when Charles Woodson departed, he certainly was the best safety we had on the roster.

Wasn't saying much, was it?

If Pickett decides to retire, or the Packers choose to pass on an aging player, BJ Raji is probably the best healthy defensive lineman left on the roster. Is he worth $8M a year, as he was allegedly offered earlier in the season? A lot of folks right now will say he isn't.

Personally, I don't think Shields is worth the money. Do the Packers have anyone to replace him? No. But they also can't afford to tie themselves up with a long-term megadeal with a guy who's not going to be worth the money, either.

It's a pickle. And its by design.

Look, the Green Bay Packers, whether you want to believe it or not, are in the "Fall" portion of their Roman Empire. The system is ginned to work against a Super Bowl-winning team, making their window very short and the eventual fall from the elite a near certainty.

You can't keep picking in the late 20's of the draft and think you're going to keep up with the teams drafting ahead of you in every round.

You can't sign guys like Aaron Rodgers to the biggest contract in the NFL, AND Clay Matthews to the highest defensive contract in the NFL, AND think you're going to be able to keep everyone else, too. It isn't going to happen, and once those two deals were inked, this offseason was going to be a lot more bloodletting than we're used to.

Because that's the way the system is designed. Sure, there's the occasional Patriot team that can keep it going with some pretty shrewd deals for a while, but eventually, every team succumbs to the parity the NFL has designed to prevent the dynasties that once ruled entire decades.

The Packers, for certain, can't complain about the system. Without the era of free agency and salary caps, the Packers would never have had a chance to win a Super Bowl in 1996. At the same time, we saw the first instances of parity completely deconstruct the 49ers and Cowboys dynasties, falling victim to a new term in the football vernacular: "Salary Cap Hell".

In many ways, Ted Thompson is going to have to go back to the beginning, where he was in 2006, dealing with salary cap implications that led to the painful departure of many beloved veterans. He only tepidly touched the free agent market and built a team almost completely through the draft.

During those rebuilding years, a plaintive cry went through Packer Nation: "We can't wait to rebuild! We have to win Brett Favre another Super Bowl NOW!!!" With Aaron Rodgers on the wrong side of 30, chances are the longer Thompson takes to turn it all around, the more you might hear voices like Al Davis and other impatient Packer fans wondering why Thompson isn't selling the farm to piece together a team that can win today.

Really, you want to mortgage everything for one year, and end up like the Vikings? No thanks.

It's not easy to take, and as I said, there's plenty to criticize over at 1265 if you really want to.

But seriously? Ripping on Thompson for not overpaying every free agent simply because we don't have anything better on the roster? Not overpaying on the free agent market to win RIGHT NOW?

Have we learned nothing from our own history? The Packers rebuilt in 2005-2006 and were within one stupid interception of the Super Bowl in 2007. They kept retooling after losing Favre and actually won it three seasons later.

Patience.

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (141) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

4thand1's picture

Great post CD. But there is a little light at the end of the tunnel. The cap increase over the next few years. Maybe the way to go is sign a few long in the tooth guys that can still play and want a chance to win it all. Been trying to point out the cap to a lot of these impatient bozos for a while. Most are willing to sell the farm.

David Gillette's picture

While I agree that some of pending FA's are pricing themselves out or at least willing to test the market my concern is that the pack need help I'm all 3 levels of D and I cannot see a way that those spots can be filled with draft picks that can contribute in 2014. 30mil cap space is room to do something and 1265 doesn't seem to show any signs of urgency. Probably bi-product of early playoff defeats but getting antsy for a move to acknowledge recent short comings, suppose should let FA start before freaking out

ATS's picture

Problem with this article is that the Packers might not be in such a situation if they had drafted better. Can't continue to have 1st round picks end up being non-factors. Even if those picks were made at the end of the round.

Depressing.

tundravision's picture

Totally agree the past few drafts have been lackluster. However, there are two caveats:

a) '10 Bulaga/Neal '11 Sherrod '12 Perry/Hayward have all been beset by injuries. Hard to say what might have been.

b) When you draft late in the first round, that's what you get: riskier gambles on talent vs. injury/bust. Part of the deal. Most drafts' second tiers end right around the late teens and early 20's. Now you're working with what's left in that third tier.

ATS's picture

Sure, but they didn't really even need to be picking "difference makers". If they were just able to draft serviceable pros they would be in a much better place.

I still have hope for Bulaga and Hayward but I have a sinking feeling that Perry, Neal, Sherrod, Wothy, and even D. Jones will never amount to much.

Sherrod's done. I don't think he was even very good before the injury.

Neal's gone .

Perry is going to end up hitting FA before the Packers really know what they have in him. So they'll have to take a chance and extend him blindly or let him walk (which is the more likely scenario).

Bulaga will be a good RT for them.
Hayward will be a solid yet unspectacular slot corner for them.
Jones and Worthy will max out as J.A,G.'s.

If you're only going to draft you have to draft better than that.

4thand1's picture

I feel sorry for you, I really do.

ATS's picture

Don't.
I'm fine.
These are just my opinions.
Which ones do you disagree with?
I'm interested.

4thand1's picture

I think Perry can be really good, Sherrod hasn't had a chance, we'll see. He has the perfect body type for a tackle. Worthy, who knows. I also am high on Hayward. Neal also seems to be getting better each game, don't know if he'll be back though. I don't call a guy a bust till he actually busts.

4thand1's picture

My gut feeling is the pack WILL get a decent safety. Also we're lucky its a really deep draft, so if we miss this year then throw up the red flags. Patience is the key word here. I want what I want, and I want it now doesn't work.

WKUPackFan's picture

It's just way too early to determine the ultimate effectiveness of Perry, Worthy, Datone, Sherrod, even Neal.
Perry - Has only been able to play one year out of two. Showed good things this and played through injury.
Worthy - Wasn't even expected to play this year after the knee injury. No sample size to judge from.
Datone - Early injury setback in his rookie year. Who can possibly know yet?
Sherrod - Well known story. Rookie season, way too little action to make determination.
Neal - Been around longer, but just played all 16 games last season, while being nicked up in many of those games. Adapted well to OLB, put up good numbers. Would love to see what he can do with an offseason to train his body for OLB. Needs to be resigned for a reasonable price.

Patience means having some with first and second year players also.

billy's picture

why, he may be spot on just as likely as being wrong about these guys…he can't have an opinion?? this place is turning into "Ask Vic" where anyone with a differing opinion is a "stupid troll" who should go be a Bears fan…

Arlo's picture

@ ATS

"If you’re only going to draft you have to draft better than that."

Of course you're right. Some of these clowns that disagree with you must have flunked basic math. They keep saying "it's too early to judge some of the picks".

Every name mentioned in this string of posts has underperformed based on his draft status. --- 8-8-1 is the result.

ray nichkee's picture

Arlo is no better than a crow. He barks from a safe distance annoying everyone and if you impose a threat he will fly away. Only if he has companions can he act on his bark. In the meantime when he sees carrion he will endulge in a meal as if it is gourmet without shame. Does anybody like crows? 8-8-1 is pretty good considering the injuries. Is that an excuse? No. It is what it is and that is better than what I had them at when rodgers went down. Go feast on a dead scunk arlo.

Arlo's picture

What's wrong RayRay?

Reality (8-8-1) is difficult to counter, isn't it?

Just try. I'm sure you'll come up with more excuses.

Ted Thompson's picture

Goddamn you're a retarded moron. 8-8-1, cause Rodgers was hurt half the season. I get it you are a pissed purple ass eater that is never going to win the big one, so you come in here and troll. Well walk home little kid, the adults are talking.

Phatgzus's picture

Could analogy, Mr. Nitchkee, except for one glaring difference...crows are intelligent.

Brian's picture

Great Post! I remember walking out of the stadium when the Packers lost to the Carolina on the last play of the game and then fired Ray Rhodes the next week. I remember thinking we had an old roster that was being held together with pieces of duck tape. The Cap was tight. I instantly thought rebuild. What happened Sherman kept trying to keep the team together and it ended in cap hell and consistent losses with a bad locker room.

I like what Ted Thompson is doing. Instead of giving the Packer Fans what they want he is giving us what we need. Ted understands he has pieces in place. Rodgers, Lacy, Bakhitari, Barclay, Cobb, Nelson, D. Jones, Daniels, Boyd, Heyward, Hyde, Burnett.

Ted has the Cap to hold the main players together. With two drafts fill the major holes in the roster, and still have the cap space to get key veterans to contribute. This will give the Packers another window for Rodgers 3-5 years to have a real shot at another title. Plus our locker room with be filled with motivated team oriented players to win a championship with quality leadership.

Tommy's picture

I agree that TT should not spend money foolishly, I just don't think he's a very good judge of talent. He's over rated and it's sad that he's wasting the talent the Packers do have. Other franchises have taken the lead in knowing how to build a team. TT, and he's probably a very nice man, has fallen way behind the curve. It's time for Ted to move on. Thanks.

QOTSA1's picture

The Packernet article is ridiculous, but I can't say I agree everything said in this article either.

There is no reason a team with one of the top quarterbacks in the league, still in his prime, should be rebuilding.

The Packers are in this position because TT has missed on more draft picks than he has hit on over the past few years, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

Drealyn Williams's picture

"There is no reason a team with one of the top quarterbacks in the league, still in his prime, should be rebuilding"

The top QB in the league. Agree.

Stroh's picture

Teams that have won they're division the past 3 years and won 11+ games each year, and would have this year were it not for Rodgers injury aren't rebuilding. They are reloading... THey lost 2 playmakers on D and are trying to replace them. That's not rebuilding... Rebuilding is what the entire 70's and 80's was. Try gaining some perspective...

Arlo's picture

You're using linguistics again to make your point. You do NOT have enough football wisdom to decide how anyone defines "rebuilding".

8-8-1 is NOT a winning season. One and out in the playoffs (again) is NOT considered a success (by most). --- Even novice fans like yourself should realize that the Pack have alot of ground to make up in order to return to elite status.

Now, cue all the excuses.

ray nichkee's picture

My excuse is arlo sucks donkey dick

Arlo's picture

You are an utter embarrassment to all Packer Fans.

Ted Thompson's picture

Good lord little kids do not understand football at all. Stick to ballet, maybe you can understand it better. So sad that you are a purple troll. peterson is done in two years or less, kid how does that make you feel?

4thand1's picture

LMFAO, these people just don't get it. CD, maybe you should spell it out for them in crayons.

ATS's picture

No - I get it.
The Pack missed it's window.
Bummer.

Just gotta hope another one opens up before 12's done.
Have to start bringing in better talent in order for that to happen.

zeke's picture

Depends on how you define missing its window. By winning a championship every year that 12 is around? By that definition, yes, they have failed. But then so has every other team in the league.

4thand1's picture

Except for that lucky bastard, Eli.

Arlo's picture

Again ATS.

You're right. --- AR just turned 30. That window is closing fast.

4thand1's picture

OHHH Artroll, you found someone to your negative liking. Where ya been with your snide comments? On a week long binge? You don't get the salary cap do you? And you think you know so much about football. You're just plain ignorant.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Everyone is talking about Shields & a Safety. Both important, that will be taken care of. IMO, rebuilding the defense starts with the Defensive Line, & Linebackers. Hawk isn't going anywhere, so I want to see GB get a Tough ILB, & Not CM3. I think finding a DE to complement Mathews at the other DE, would go along way toward making this Defense better. Yes we need a Quality Safety. We'll get one. I also feel that Shields is replaceable. I believe it starts with getting more pressure on the QB. We've got a REGGIE, we just need to find a SEAN. I don't know how well we drafted the past few years. My opinion, we had way too many injuries on both sides of the ball. The 15-1 season was a SB, but that's Another Story.

trvs's picture

Spot on.

tundravision's picture

Honest, if you're talking about a window closing, Las Vegas-Tom hit it on the head. 15-1 in 2011? That was a slamdunk second Super Bowl. Should have been. After that, the exodus of talent (or aging) began and the talent stream coming in started thinning.

It's not negativity...just reality.

Drealyn Williams's picture

The difference between '11-to-present is health.

Arlo's picture

Too simple. All teams have injuries. Quit the crying & do some serious analyzation instead.

Fans like you (and many others here) give Packer Fans a bad rep.

ray nichkee's picture

Arlo is not a packer fan. He comes here to shit on everything. His life must be shit.

Brian's picture

+1 Arblow

Clay's picture

"Analyzation"?

You're spelling ability gives you a bad "rep".

Clay's picture

Analyzation Arlo?

Your spelling gives you a bad rep.

Drealyn Williams's picture

A bad rep? GTFOH

4thand1's picture

Isn't it nice to be loved, artroll? lmfao.

Ted Thompson's picture

Arblow purple dicks is one stupid retard. Kid gtfo and go back to whatever Viking board. Ted jerks it to posts like yours. Sad little morons that have no clue how to run a football team.

m@'s picture

"Well, 'the best defense is a good offense.' You know who said that? Mel, the cook on Alice."
-- Ed Gruberman

al's picture

I tend to disagree with the article. it is hard to say that we would be overpaying since we don't know the contract talks that are taking place. I tend to think that Ted is just being too careful and a bit too cheap. So you spend an extra couple mil on the guy... or you use that couple mil and get a few bums off the street to serve as backups.. whats the difference? winning... I would rather have one shields than three backups that will be gone in a year. Plus bringing in a round 1 CB would not solve the problem. Shields has experience which no draft status can replace. I would rather pay the man what he is dew and use our draft on other needs. I understand being smart with your money, but Ted is cheap day in an day out. At some point you have to be willing to take a few risks. Because the supposedly safe draft and develop plan has produced a gaggle of underachieving guys who are about to be gone in a couple years.

Jamie's picture

Far too many folks completely ignore the fact that a negotiation is between two parties. The person in the position of (or perceived as) payor receives most of the blame, and the possibility that the payee is being unreasonable or is altogether disinterested is an afterthought.

It makes my brain bleed to read this kind of nonesense.

As seen with the contracts awarded to Burnett, T Williams, B Jones, Hawk, etc...TT is not being too careful or too cheap. He places what he believes is fair value on the player based on performance, comparables, and other factors...the player/agent either agrees or disagrees (or just wants to go elsewhere).

You folks need to stop oversimplifying the process and stop with the blamemongering.

Bert's picture

Good points Jamie. Also, TT like any other GM has to work within the financial constraints of the organization. The idea of any business is to make a profit. He has a boss(Murphy) also that demands a bottom line and balancing revenue vs. operational costs is a real tightrope. Everybody wants the team to win SBs but there is a cost associated with that. The idea is (I think) to stay competitive which keeps fan interest high (which will maximize revnue). TTs done a good job of that and at the same time has managed the costs pretty well. As far as the SB? Oh well. We still stay interested, buy tickets, visit the pro-shop etc.

BradHTX's picture

The problem with Bert's (and many others') "cheap Ted" argument is that the Packers are a NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION. They have to balance their books, but unlike teams owned as a business investment, their goal is not to turn a profit and therefore there is no personal benefit to Thompson or Murphy in not spending money they don't have to.

The cap is the cap, and Thompson's decisions are ALWAYS based on management of the cap not just in the present season but in future ones.

Bert's picture

Problem is you have other operating costs besides salaries. Player salary is just one cost. You still have to balance the books and they do turn a profit. The constant upgrades at Lambeau (for the benefit of the fans) come with a huge cost. TT is doing what the CEO has asked him to do as far as controlling player salaries. Otherwise he'd be out the door. At least I think he'd be out the door.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Bert, Not to change the subject, but when it looked like there might be a Blackout for the Playoff Game, don't you think that was a Slap In the Face, to all the GB & surrounding area people who are paying the Sales Tax to pay off the Stadium Improvements?? Just Curious!!

LiteralGJ85's picture

I completely agree that people are just refusing to acknowledge the negotiation aspect of this deal. If we franchised Shields we absolutely would have been overpaying him. If his people think he can get more on the market, or even just show his perceived value is greater elsewhere, it could potentially jimmy open TT's wallet a little bit more. It's all tactics, and nothing yet indicates Shields is any more or less likely to wind up a Packer this coming year. With his reputation I don't know HOW Rosenhaus is getting such a free pass from most of the fanbase; I guess taking a watery dump on TT is easier.

Jamie's picture

Well said.

Stroh's picture

Was he cheap when he paid Rodgers or Matthews? F No! Try another argument this one sucks Ass!

John's picture

So you have to "Sell the Farm" to try and win this year. How utterly ridiculous.

WKUPackFan's picture

Great article CD, but I don't believe this Packers organization is into a rebuild now or rebuilding in general. The Packers, under Murphy, TT, and MM, focus on that one concept so vital but elusive in the modern NFL, continuity. That's why the 50 out of 53 roster players being of GB origin mentioned during the 1st Viking game was praised around the league. In a league where rosters turn over individual players rapidly, even in GB, continuity overall is a huge advantage.

The playoffs have to be made in order to win the SB. Quality system and organizational continuity is what has propelled the Pats success, and the Packers success over the past five years (along with a couple of good QBs).

There are flaws in the approach. Sometimes players or coaches are retained too long in the name of continuity. Viable FAs may be undervalued. Perhaps a defensive philosophy run its course. A poor draft year creates holes down the line. Those situations require patience also, as so wisely counseled by CD.

Stroh's picture

The holes in the Packers starting lineup are directly linked to Career Ending injuries to Collins and Bishop in the Prime of their careers. Safety and ILB are the 2 biggest holes on the and were directly preceeded by career ending injuries to players in their 20's. Some starters are relatively easy to replace. Others, guys that make plays and tilt games, are not easily replaced. Collins and Bishop were difference makers that tilted the field. 2 career ending injuries, along w/ Woodson to age/salary directly led to the holes you speak of. Pure and simple...

FITZCORE1252's picture

You lost me right... here:

"We could potentially miss the playoffs next season"

Sure, hypothetically that could happen, but if losing #12 for the length of time we did, coupled with the rest of the injury report last year didn't lead to an early exit, the odds say barring every key player getting injured, we will make the dance.

I'll give you 4:1 on that, if you're so inclined? Name it... i know you don't believe it.

Jamie's picture

I appreciate the effort, but as with almost everything CD writes, there are always points he makes that I don't believe that he believes. He appears to write things for affect, or as the devils advocate, which IMO comes across as desperate for a narrative.

Who knows, maybe CD really believes the Packers could miss the playoffs, but I really think/hope he's smarter than that.

billy's picture

what really happened and what let the Packers into the playoffs was a total collapse by a Detroit Lions team that was handed the Division…that more than ANYTHING else…will something like that happen again…probably not, unless the Lions are involved.

Jamie's picture

Will 90% of our team be ravaged by injury again, lord I hope not.

Arlo's picture

Really --- 90% ???

A little reality makes for better posts.

Jamie's picture

Hyperbole, which I'm using to exaggerate the TRUTH for effect. It's always more effective that way, you know, having some tie to reality.

Give it a try sometime.

FITZCORE1252's picture

And CD, as I've said before, I am most certainly a fan. I just happen to wholeheartedly disagree with your premise that we're on the razors edge of in/out of playoff contention. This was a 12 win team only if #12 hadn't been hurt, who knows, maybe 13 or 14 if we had good injury" luck" with the others out last year.

Drealyn Williams's picture

I don't know why some think this is an average team. The Packers are a damn good team. On the offensive side,talent is not the issue. I just can't put my figure on it. On the defensive side,it's a little more "something else" than lack of talent. I say that looking at the 20-23 loss to the 49ers.

Hank Scorpio's picture

I'm not a fan of Capers at all. I think they had more talent on defense than a 25th ranking would suggest. But the talent was not in the right places for Capers' scheme and he could not, or would not, adjust.

I believe that is what MM is saying when he says the Packers need to be "more multiple" on defense. They need to adapt their attack to suit their talent better. To me, that is just common sense but apparently the concept escapes Capers. Maybe he's been in charge of things for so long, he's lost track of how to do things differently.

I'm encouraged by two things I'm hearing whispered...1) The Packers are looking to use Nick Perry as an elephant. This is a departure from what Capers does but probably more suited to Perry's game. If Mike Neal is brought back, they have another guy suited to that role. 2) I read that MM put Capers "on notice". Good. They always talk about accountability and I see no reason Dom Capers, or anyone else, should be immune from that.

Drealyn Williams's picture

Exactly! I hope to see no more 10 yard cushions given to WRs,no more Perry/Neal in man coverage, no more three-man rushes and no more MD Jennings. I'm not familiar with the "elephant" role,but I'm hoping it puts Perry closer to the Tackle,LOS and puts his hands in the ground. What's the size difference between Daniels and Neal? I'd like to see both inside rushing (obvious passing downs). Havoc.

billy's picture

Hope your right about Capers…and Slocum is also on notice…bringing in Zook!!! Slocum must be a great buddy to not have been fired….

Stroh's picture

As long as that elephant end means playing Perry on the Right side it'll make a huge difference. Perry has shown in college and the NFL that he can rush the passer from the right side, no matter as an elephant end or as an OLB. Matthews has shown he can excel on either side. Simple solution really...

BTW Perry played the elephant end at USC early in his career till they started going w/ a true 43 D.

Paul Ott Carruth's picture

The Elephant position isn't a departure in overall scheme. The Elephant is a designation to a DE or an OLB that puts them to the open side of the offensive structure (non-TE side) thus giving that defender a two man surface to rush against. When facing BOB protection with a possible Molly block (Guard sinks to swivel) this rusher has a higher likelihood of a one on one match-up with possible chip help from a back or even a one on one mismatch with the back. Lawrence Taylor rushed from the open end side most of the time because, well, he was the best and no teams really had an answer for his freakish ability.

Now, some teams will designate the Elephant to line up to the strength of the formation (TE side). The Capers/Lebeau school usually has them line up in the best rushing position and that is the open side where one on ones are more likely to occur. As with everything in this game, plans and schemes evolve, so who knows. You'll be able to tell by where Perry lines up on Sundays how they've decided to use the Elephant.

Stroh's picture

The open side generally, but not always the right side of the defensive formation. Perry rushes verh well from the right side. Not so much left... Matthews has shown he excels on either.

Paul Ott Carruth's picture

If this Elephant position is being considered don't expect Perry to rush exclusively from the right side. Most of the time yes as most offenses are right handed and put the open side to their left but not always. By the way...Perry can rush from the left. In his limited sample size he's been pretty decent against 3 man surfaces.

Stroh's picture

SF used Charles Haley as an elephant end too.

Ruppert's picture

"People talking in movie shows-people smoking in bed-all the trolls on the message boards-

Give them a boot to the head."

Nice work, CD. We can use more references to anything that appeared on Dr. Demento.

Hank Scorpio's picture

Last I checked, FA doesn't start until March 11. Sam Shields has not yet walked. Say what you will about Drew Rosenhaus but the chances he won't let the Packers have a chance to match (or exceed) the highest offer are slim and none. He'll do everything in his power to drive up the price as high as it will go. That's his job.

And really, Rosenhaus' client is a young, speedy CB coming off a pretty good year. Packer fans may not want to hear this but he'd be doing his client a disservice if he didn't let Shields get to the open market when he's so close to being there. Especially with a cap increase that was much bigger than expected.

I don't know if Shields will ultimately re-sign in GB. I do know I would not blink about matching the offer Brent Grimes just signed, which is the latest speculation on the deal Rosenhaus wants for Shields. It is worth noting that Grimes got $8 mil per year, which is less than the transition tag, much less the franchise tag. So tagging Shields may have driven the price up and make the negotiation more dicey.

Tsi431's picture

Peyton Manning is well on the wrong side of 30, doesn't seem to hurt his team at all. Same could go for Brady, in-fact, both may be better now then ever.

gary's picture

Stroh you like to call people names. Your the ass. Give me the list of teams in the NFL that have had 3 great quarterbacks in a row. It will be a very very short list, believe me you won't need much paper. You can't just win with Rodgers and Matthews. The window on Rodgers gets smaller each year. The packers should be as aggressive as possible to win now without mortgaging the future. When money gets carried over from year to year all it does is save the team money. It doesn't add talent. If TT WOULD HAVE USED MONEY UNSPENT EACH YEAR, FOR THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS TO RECONSTUCT CONTRACTS AND PAY OUR KEY PLAYERS WITH THAT MONEY UP FRONT WE WOULD REALLY BE UNDER THE CAP. If the packers don't win with Rodgers soon it may be a long time till we win a super bowl again.

Stroh's picture

So whats your option? Trade Rodgers and Matthews so you don't have to pay them? They're great players and you have to pay them as such. Period end of story.

If the Packers don't want to pay them someone else surely will. You say you can't pay 2 players that much, what your solution? We've never heard one from you! All your doing is say you can't pay them, but you also can't win if they aren't on your team!

All your doing is pissing and moaning! Maybe we could have you man up and offer something constructive!

You don't want them to pay Rodgers and Matthews so much, yet they've earned it, then turn around and say Thompson should sign FA who get paid even more! Maybe try to make some sense. That would be a good first start!

ray nichkee's picture

Please don't call stroh an ass gary. Unless you are new here there have been plenty of posters to this site that are inbetween buttcheeks. Fire him, get rid of him, draft him, sign him or the pack sucks. Posters driven by too much emotion to not be able to sit back and see the whole thing in perspective have driven this site to arguments and name calling rather than a friendly debate between packer fans. Stroh ain't my next pick for packers GM, but the dude knows some shit and even if I don't agree with him his 2 cents are welcome.

Arlo's picture

You are kidding, right?

You're MO is name-calling & you want to tell others how to post???

You need to go away troll --- or at least learn how to spell.

LiteralGJ85's picture

"You're MO" and "learn how to spell" don't go together particularly well.

Clay's picture

Don't worry Arlo will keep bestowing his "analyzations" on us to use a word from his vocabulary. Of course it doesn't really matter if that word exists in Arlo's world of grammar and spelling.

Ted Thompson's picture

DO WE WOULDN"T DUMBASS!!

gary's picture

Your right TSI Manning looked great in the Super Bowl.

Greenville's picture

For anyone to say its to early to evaluate Perry is just mentally retarted. I like Perry but he's been injured to much he can't even prove he can be a durable player let alone a impact when he actually takes the field, splitting most of his play with a even more injury prone player its just sad. The guy was a first round pick u knew why u are here, to be that impact guy. I'm tierd of the injury excuse stop that people, he's being paid to do a job and he hasn't done much of anything. I hope we seriously draft Dee Ford I'm hoping for him to be are pick. I can't take this none pass rush deffense its so annoying to watch very frustrating.

zeke's picture

"For anyone to say its to early to evaluate Perry is just mentally retarted. "

Sometimes the comments make their own gravy, no?

4thand1's picture

Dee Ford is a one trick pony. A speed rusher. Maybe a good pick with the new NFL passing league though.

Nick Perry's picture

He hurt his wrist in week one and his knee in week 6 I believe (The Houston Game) his rookie season. He broke a bone in his foot against the Ravens in the Packers 5th game last year. I'm not saying it's a excuse, just what it is. The dude hasn't been healthy, period. Just saying... Then there's the problem the Packers have only 4 DL under contract right now. Datone Jones, Daniels, Josh Boyd, and Jerel Worthy is it. Dee Ford will be a great pass rusher but won't hold the edge in the run game that well, at least that's what they said about him at the Senior Bowl. I think it all depends what Ted does in Free Agency, if he does anything at all.

KennyPayne's picture

I applaud TT's attempt to be wise with the Pack's resources. I also think if SS is asking for an unrealistic number TT should be applauded for holding firm (at this point no one outside of those on the inside know the truth).

That said, since the Super Bowl win, TT let Jenkins walk for not much money. He wildly overpaid a mediocre LB in Hawk. He also overpaid Crosby, Kuhn, B. Jones, and Burnett. If the $8M per year offer to Raji is accurate he also miscalculated Raji's worth. The same holds true if he really offered Jennings a $9M per year deal the year before.

Meanwhile, TT has signed just a single noteworthy UFA since the Super Bowl win Jeff Saturday. Saturday was so over the hill he lost his job to journeyman EDS making that lone UFA signing a bust.

I think there is much to criticize TT for over the last 3 seasons when it comes to managing the Pack's resources.

MarkinMadison's picture

"You can’t sign guys like Aaron Rodgers to the biggest contract in the NFL, AND Clay Matthews to the highest defensive contract in the NFL, AND think you’re going to be able to keep everyone else, too."

This was the point I was making last year. It seemed a little easier to swallow then when: a) the bloodletting hadn't really started yet, b) #12's contract was structured in a relatively cap-friendly way, and c) you always have the hope that the cap will continue to rise. Well, here we are at the blood-letting part. I don't know if Sam Shields is worth a transition tag. I'm sure that BJ Raji is not. I'm sure that JJ can be replaced with what is on the roster. And I feel the same way about Shields.

I'm not jumping ship, I'm not losing patience, but I am asking the same question that I asked last year: "Looking at teams that have won the Super Bowl in the FA era, how many were won by teams with QBs who have not received a top contract (e.g. Russell Wilson) v. those who have (e.g. Payton Manning). I haven't done the research, and I don't know that anyone has, but my hunch is that this is still a team game, and having too much of your cap locked up in one or two players is not a great recipie for winning Super Bowls.

ray nichkee's picture

I think Saturday was worth every penny as a transition to EDS. Now I hope we can keep him.

Stroh's picture

Damn right... Saturday also served as a mentor for EDS. His blocking was subpar by the time we got him, but his intagibles, ability to make the OL calls and superb snapping made him worth what he was paid. He was the perfect player to bring in at the time. Leadership, mentor and mental abilities made him worth every penny.

Its unfortunate some can't see the forest for the trees!

Arlo's picture

And you know this how ???

Saturday was benched for subpar play. Deny that.

ray nichkee's picture

If EDS was ready to start at the beginning of the season he would have and lang would have backed him up. Somehow they did ok with Saturday at center. Better than your 8-8-1 rants. Manning didn't mind him at center. He ain't the biggest dude but he makes up for it with smarts. You need to take some smart pills and stop taking idiot pills. It may take a while but the rants will go away and people may actually start to like you.

Arlo's picture

I'll repeat.

"Saturday was benched for subpar play. Deny that."

ray nichkee's picture

Saturday was signed to get EDS ready. Once he had the go ahead he played and was able to start in the playoffs. Go ask him if he was benched? If EDS did not play well Saturday would have stepped in at any time. Guess what? Who has gotten the nod at center since. It is more than obvious that nothing will please your fridgid vagina. Does anybody else hate crows? How can I go from a homer to a troll? At least you are consistant being an asshole eh?

Arlo's picture

"Saturday was signed to get EDS ready. Once he had the go ahead he played and was able to start in the playoffs."

And you know this how ??? ---Any links to support your statement?? ----- I didn't think so.

Quit making up stuff.

Ted Thompson's picture

I'll repeat, you're a fucking idiot.

KennyPayne's picture

"I think Saturday was worth every penny as a transition to EDS."

I take it this was an attempt at sarcasm, right?

Greenville's picture

But capers has to go I'm not trying to here about players not plays. Thats ludicrous. Plenty of times season after season sense we've won the super bowl capers has proving he can not adjust to the game or even scheme a proper game to slow down good teams. And please dont use the the 49er playoff game for an excuse. I think that had more to do with the game elements then capers game plan. The panthers has a way better deffense then the packers and we saw wat the 49ers did to them in warm elements with no limitations.

Greenville's picture

Pluse in 2012 the saint's deffense was the worse in NFL history. When they actually got a good deffense coordinator we all seen how good they where in the 2013 season. He turned them into a top 5 deffense with the same players.

Jordan's picture

Why is it Caper's fault that TT had bad luck in the draft? Is it Caper's fault that ALL-PRO Nick Collins had a career ending injury. Is it Caper's fault that Woodson got old? Is it Caspers fault that Hawk blitzes like Betty White? Is it Caper's fault that the offense had trouble getting a lead and loves to go 3 and out against good teams? Is it Caper's fault that the offense went 3-11 on third down vs 49ers? My goodness, Caper's defense even got the offense a turnover for an extra possession. It's nobody's fault. It just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

Both teams played in the same elements. 49ers flew in from 65 degree weather.

Bert's picture

Good Jordan. "Hawk rushing the passer like Betty White" is a pretty good analogy. There are 31 teams besides the Packers so the odds are always pretty good that a few of those teams will just flat out have better players on any given year. Nobody's fault really. Just the way it is. The key is to stay competitive and keep us fans interested and keep the revenue coming in. Seems like we are competitive and us fans stay interested. No big deal that a few other teams may have better talent right now.

Jordan's picture

And capers defense held them to 23 without their best player (Matthews). Pretty impressive really.

ray nichkee's picture

I agree. I froze my ass off at lambeau just hoping that the pack didn't get embarrassed by SF. I was rewarded by an excellent game minus the last few seconds. A play here or an interception there would have made the difference. I saw players ready to play and I saw backups step in when they had to. I saw datone jones line up at linebacker. Some people think losing a playoff game to another great team is absolute failure. I saw a damn good game that the pack were on the wrong end of. Some idiots act like it was the same score as the superbowl.

Bert's picture

I think you and Ray have the right attitude. I like complaining too. As a fan we want too see a SB winner and anything less just pisses us off. But given the fact that folks like Ray are willing to sit out in -5F weather tells me that TT and Co. are doing a good job of keeping the team interesting enough to keep the fans involved. I live in AK. I spend a pretty penny flying to GB most years and watching a game. I'm happy to do it because the team is good enough to hold my interest. SF and Seattle are better right now. That's OK. Nobody's fault.

Arlo's picture

Do you honestly believe that RayRay was even at the game?

He's not noted on this blog as being a poster of truth or integrity. --- He's a BS'er. That's his MO.

4thand1's picture

You know I haven't seen cow. Maybe artroll is cow. You can't even go to a football game without him questioning it. I looked up arlo in the Polish dictionary and the definition was: prick, not kind that pokes a finger.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Regardless of what anyone thinks of the draft over the last couple of years, you cannot discount the injury's that GB has had to play through. We've been playing with our 2ond & in some cases 3rd string players. As hurt as we were this year, I still believe had we gotten by SF, we may have got there? That say's at least something for the personnel. Even the games we lost, we damn near won with 2ond & 3rd string people. Could we have drafted better? Maybe so. Had we stayed healthy, would we have done better, ABSOLUTELY. This team has done Exceptionally Well, considering the injury's we've sustained. I think we may have held AR out, 1 week too long, but that's just my opinion. I still believe, we Damn near beat the Best team in the playoffs (SF), with a lot of people hurt. You can't expect to beat the Top Tier teams with your 2ond string, & we damn near did. If Bulaga doesn't play this year, I'll personally buy him a bus ticket. I have to end this by saying: Lets not weaken our offense, Sign JJ & Starks.

4thand1's picture

Tom, you're not allowed to use injury as an excuse. You'll be blasted by the know-it-all GM's here. I agree with your assessment by the way.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

4thand1, Make No Mistake about it. GB must get Healthy & Better. The North will be a lot Tougher this year. The team from the South was hurt last year as well. With their Big Receivers, Briggs, & Tillman back, they will have to be Reckoned With. They have a Tough Offense, & their Defense will be much better. One of these years Detroit should put it together. I hate to admit it, but we did get a Break from Detroit. There is No Denying that. They are No Push Overs anymore. We can't count on them folding like last year. Don't everyone Jump on me, but IMO, both those teams are 10 Win teams. We are going to have to be Better than that. Getting Healthy is what I think we Need the most. With a couple of the right pieces, I still think we are the team to beat, but we can't take those other 2 Lightly. If TT finds a Diamond this year, I hope it's a DE. It's been said before: We need to put More Pressure on the Opposing QB'S, & our Defense will look a lot better. JMO

4thand1's picture

The LOLions gave us a gift no doubt. They are a scary team. Da Bears still have Cutler. He folds against GB. Health is #1 and plug 2 holes. ILB and safety, we all know that. Dee Ford's stock is rising fast. The one thing He'll do is apply pressure right out of the gate. With him moving up, somebody good will drop. This is a deep draft.

Archie's picture

Worst post I have ever read. Pack is awash in cap money. The problem is not no money. The problem is not picking in the 20s. heck, TT's 2nd round picks have been far better than his 1st rd picks. The problem is he is blowing his draft picks, especially those on defense, where his last several drafts have been focused. The next problem is he is letting his top FA leave every year. Next problem is he doesn't go after other team's top FA. Lastly he falls in love with soft players such as Hawk and Raji and Jones and MDJennings etc. In short, teh problem is the GM.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Archie, Who's post were you referring to??

ray nichkee's picture

I think archie is refering to the whole thing in general not at you.I am not sure where he stands if he is a hater and thinks every one else is a homer or if he just wants to be negative. Maybe he is a reincaration of one of the trolls. I don't know but his opinions seem more like rants designed to argue rather than discuss. I have a hard time believeing that so many people who get paid within the packers brass and the media could be so wrong and these select few that can't even express themselves in a decent way are correct. There is a much better way to express an opinion and the obvious areas of improvement are there. Let's wait and see what happens. It is all part of the fun. In the meantime be friendly or you won't have friends.

Arlo's picture

@ Archie

More & more Packer Fans are starting to realize that 8-8-1 is the responsibility of the GM.

The buck stops on the other 31 teams on the GM's desk, why not GB?

4thand1's picture

Because the other 31 teams would hire TT in a heartbeat.

Ted Thompson's picture

Holy shit, how much do you drool when you type?

Sportspack's picture

All we need is 4-5 middle of the road free agents, 2-3 nice draft picks,not overpay our own free agents and all will be fine in the land of Cheese.

Stroh's picture

I think we need one, maybe 2 playmakers on D. Don't care if they come from current roster stepping up like Collins or Bishop, draft picks or FA. Look at who we lost. Wooodson? playmaker... Collins? playmaker... Bishop? playmaker...

Find another one or 2 playmakers on D and the D is elite again. Till that happens we'll be middle of the road on D.

ray nichkee's picture

I can agree stroh, but I think a couple of big dudes on the line will make everyone else look better if they can put the pressure on. I don't even care if we need to rotate them. Sometimes you don't even hear their names called in the game but their job is to occupy the line of scimmage. There have been too many breakdowns there that led to too many big plays. You and I can suit up for the pack in the secondary if the QB has no time to throw the ball.

Arlo's picture

Please Stroh --- say something different for a change. You keep making basically the same novice post on a daily basis.

Got anything new??

ray nichkee's picture

Hey arlo do you have anything worth posting. You are having a one hell of a day after being gone for a week. Go eat your carrion heckler. Arlo the crow

Bearmeat's picture

Great article CD.

But the comments! Oy Vey! Now I remember WHY I stopped reading CHTV's comment section about midway through 2012.

ray nichkee's picture

Arlo is nothing but a heckling crow. What an effin loser. Get real dude. What value does anything you post have to society? The packers? Your life? You are one sad puppy to get personal satisfaction with your interactions posting comments here. Does your shit comments and attitude work with your friends? It doesn't look like you have many here.

Arlo's picture

Overall, a good analysis and a fair analysis by CD. The "homers & Ttards" should reread for a complete understanding.

However, the further a team falls away from elite status, the longer it takes to return to elite status.

The Packers are in a bit of disarray going into 2014. Season 2014 could be a rough one.

Ted Thompson's picture

I don't know who is worse the Ted haters or the Ted Worshippers, but Arlo but actual be the stupidest person on the planet.

4thand1's picture

He's just THEEEE troll that's gets off on negative replies. Stays away for a while and comes in, posts total crap, and gets his fix. Everyone is on to him. We all know suck when we see it.

Taylor31's picture

Good question Ted. Correct on Arlo and some of these shameless lackey schmoozers (Stroh, Ray, 4th and 1)need to get a room and get to it.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Please keep all this Negativity going into the season. I'd like to get the $$$$ off of GB for a change. By the way, Where the Hell is ClowNey?? I kind of miss him.

ray nichkee's picture

Clowney is cow is arlo is eraser is a douchebag salad.

4thand1's picture

+4

Sportspack's picture

Just wondering, What do you get if you cross a Stroh and an Arlo? They are completely opposite,yet both are intelligent and passionate Packer fans. I can't say I always agree with either one,but their comments are always interesting and controversial. Thanks guys!

Jamie's picture

Arblow isn't a Packer fan.

1,006,7538,85322,7 posts and not one single solitary positive quip re: the Packers. That's not a fan...that's a lowlife POS fan of some other team that has so little to get excited about loser fans come here to spew hate about the Packers.

4thand1's picture

Jamie is spot on. I've NEVER met a true Packer fan who would constantly lambaste his/her team like artroll. NO WAY is he a Packer fan. I'd bet Vikqueens or thebearsstillsuck.

JL's picture

Yah, I don't agree with the post. The Packers aren't in "rebuilding" mode. They have had and will continue to have one of the best offense in the league, now more versatile than ever.

The problem, obviously, is on the other side of the ball, for all the reasons that have been mentioned here: poor drafting (injuries or not, the picks haven't performed), freak injuries (Bishop and Collins), and too much money sunk in to underachievers (Burnett, Hawk).

With that being said, I also disagree with CD's prescription regarding Shields. I don't think Shields is a must sign, but he's something pretty close. Is he an elite corner? Depends on what you mean by that. But he's young, he's fast, he makes plays, and he's getting better and better each year. He's definitely starting caliber, probably in the upper half of starting CBs in the league.

The main reason the Packers should keep him is that failing to do so takes the lone strength of the defense (its corners) and turns it into an area that needs to be addressed. Tramon is old, Hyde is better suited for slot or safety, Heyward has the injury bug, and House is raw. If Shields is gone, we might not even have two reliable outside corners next year. And the idea of taking a corner with a first round pick? Absurd! I don't know how we can do that and still hope to draft plug and play starters at safety, ILB, and D-line.

Again, I'm not privy to all the closed-door conversations, so take it for what it's worth, but Shields should be signed. Grimes money is perfectly reasonable for him. Letting him go not only loses us a quality player, it also turns a position of strength into a weakness, and, in the process, makes our actual glaring weaknesses that much more difficult to fill.

Jordan's picture

So Shields picked off Romo, Dalton, Stafford, and Cutler last year and he's worth 16 million guaranteed? I don't think so.

Packers were beating 49ers in first game of 2013 season. Shields gave up the 40+ yard reception to boldin. Back breaker. 49ers are a good team. I would place more emphasis on what shields did against 49ers in his contract year. Shields didn't even hardly play vs 49ers in playoffs and packers D only gave up 23.

You don't need to agree with CD that the Packers are in rebuild mode, but at some point, you will need to accept it. ;)

Whatever happened to "In Ted We Trust" ?

http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Packers-49ers-game-highlights...

Bert's picture

I see where you are going and agree with most of what you say. Problem is, we just can't overpay for Shields even if it does leave us in the lurch. Which it probably will if he does go. It's a Catch 22 but that's the way the business is. As far as drafting "plug and play starters" on defense I have very little faith that anyone we draft this May will be of much help in 2014. Maybe we will get lucky but I certainly won't count on it. I think we either sign a FA or 2, current players step up or we are kinda up the creek for 2014 as far as the defense is concerned.

Stroh's picture

Agree w/ about everything you said... Except, the thought of drafting plug and play on D. Capers D is much to complex to think any defensive starter is going to plugged in and ready to start.

We need to find a starting Safety in FA and hope we can find a DL that can fill in as a starter while Datone, Worthy and Boyd develop.

Can pretty much guarantee there won't be any plug and play defensive starters from the draft. You should shelve any thought of that happening.

Jordan's picture

Develop worthy and datone jones? Huh? They're top picks and will both be in year two (considering worthy missed a year). They need to produce this year. Hand holding and coddling is over for those two.

Many considered worthy to be a late first round pick. And since Thompson traded a 4th for him, he had him graded pretty high too.

That's fine if you want to coddle a 5th rounder with the draft and develop, but first and second rounders need to be ready to start in year two.

Thompson will draft a DL, but hopefully it's not for the purpose of coddling and developing jones and worthy.

JL's picture

I'd expect a 1st round pick at safety or ILB or even DL -- Pryor or Mosley or Nix -- to push for starting time. And me bringing up "plug and play" through the draft was in part to highlight how rare it is. Since there are only a handful of players that could be drafted and play right away, we really shoot ourselves in the foot by adding yet ANOTHER position that we have to address through the draft.

I agree, we don't need to sell the farm for Shields. And maybe he honestly wants out of GB and back to Florida, or something like that. But, if it is the case that TT isn't willing to budge even a little bit, I think we're making a mistake, passing on youth, talent, and familiarity with the system.

Bert's picture

I concur JL. Well said.

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