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Early Reaction to Green Bay Packers' 2013 NFL Draft

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Early Reaction to Green Bay Packers' 2013 NFL Draft

I must first apologize to any of my loyal CheeseheadTV readers (if there exists such a thing) regarding my posting here during the 2013 NFL draft. My priorities were fixated at Bleacher Report (you can read all my work for the draft here) and providing semi-readable tweets from Thursday through Saturday, leaving precious few opportunities to provide a meaningful commentary here.

You likely didn't notice, as the always-great Brian Carriveau kept you informed and entertained better than I ever could have dreamed. (This gives me a great opportunity to congratulate Brian for his outstanding draft coverage in 2013. Did anyone provide more Packers-themed draft features over the last couple of months? I think it goes without saying that anyone who frequents this site learned a great deal from the never-ending work Brian has done since February.)

As an offering of my own forgiveness, I decided to burn the midnight oil to give you my early reaction to all 11 of the Packers' picks over the last three days.

Here it goes:

1.26: DE Datone Jones, UCLA

Somewhat surprisingly, the Packers' dream pick fell right into their laps on Day 1. Jones, who I had as my No. 1 overall player on my first-round big board, fills an immediate need along the defensive line as both a base starter and pass disrupter in the nickel. Admittedly, I thought Jones could have been long gone by No. 26. The more you watched him, the more you liked what he brought to the table. No need to trade down when an impact player at a need area falls to your selection unexpectedly.

2.61: RB Eddie Lacy, Alabama

In terms of talent, the Packers might as well of had two first-round picks. Lacy fell in this draft in large part because of medical worries, but there's little doubting how his talent translates to the next level. He weighs 231 pounds but has the feet of a a back 40 pounds lighter. The Alabama offensive line was dominant, but Lacy created his fair share of yards. Watch his tape against Georgia in the SEC Championship Game. He's a creator when he needs to be. I did have legitimate worries about him in the first round—and I placed him at No. 7 on my big board because of the question marks—but at No. 61 overall, Lacy was a no-brainer. As a cherry on top, the Packers were even able to move down six spots and still get the game-changer at running back. Ridiculous value plus pressing need equals home run for Green Bay.

4.109: OT David Bakhtiari, Colorado

Bakhtiari was a player I did some homework on early in the process, mostly in preparation for #MockTwo (excuse the formatting). In the online simulation, I took Bakhtiari at No. 152 overall in the fifth round and felt very good about it. I won't knock the value here because I have no knowledge of the Packers' draft board. But here's one reason to really like the pick: It sends a kick in the pants to Marshall Newhouse, who should now have serious competition at left tackle this summer. The Packers need to get better at left tackle if they want any chance at competing with the 49ers and Seahawks in the NFC, and this pick should be a step in the right direction up front.

4. 122: OL J.C. Tretter, Cornell

Tretter is very intriguing. A former quarterback and tight end made into a left tackle, Tretter's path to the NFL sounds a lot like Oklahoma's Lane Johnson, who went in the top 5 to Philadelphia. He's athletic out on an island, but he's not as tall as you'd like in an offensive tackle and his arm length (33 3/8") won't do him any favors in shielding against the better edge rushers. Still, you like his upside and versatility to play potentially all five positions along the offensive line. At the very least, the Packers committed to providing more quality competition in front of the NFL's richest man, Aaron Rodgers.

4.125: RB Johnathan Franklin, UCLA

Maybe the toughest question to answer about the Packers' draft is which running back was a better value. Franklin, who many had as one of their top two running backs in this class, inexplicably dropped to the 125th pick, where the Packers moved up to get him at tremendous value. Now, a team who couldn't manage to get a running back over 500 yards last season will enter the 2013 season with two potential difference-makers in the backfield. All along, my comparison on Franklin has been Frank Gore. He jumps off the tape as a slippery, one-cut runner with impressive short-area quickness and balance. You also have to like the way he participates in the passing game and his willingness to throw his body around in pass protection. Lacy, Franklin and DuJuan Harris blow the doors off any running back combination the Packers have had during the Aaron Rodgers era.

5.159: CB Micah Hyde, Iowa

There's so much talent and depth at cornerback that's it worth wondering how Hyde fits in, especially short-term. But Tramon Williams has regressed since 2010 and Sam Shields remains unsigned long-term, so maybe this is more of a protection pick. While the Packers plan on keeping Hyde at cornerback, there's probably potential for Hyde to transition to safety. His tape doesn't show a lock-down man-to-man cover guy. In my amateur opinion, he was much better in zone settings where he could read-and-react to plays happening in front of him. His ability to return punts next season could help keep Randall Cobb out of the danger zone.

5.167: DL Josh Boyd, Miss. State

With so much uncertainly along the defensive line in both 2013 and beyond, it was never going to surprise me if the Packers took two defensive linemen in this draft. Not only is Jerel Worthy (knee) iffy for next season, but five defensive linemen will become free agents following 2013. Veteran Ryan Pickett is one of them, and it's only a matter of when, not if, Father Time starts creeping up on the 33-year-old. Regression is an unpredictable force at this point in careers. Boyd should provide a run-stuffing rotational body in 2013 and a potential Pickett replacement down the road. Also, his 32 reps at the combine were among the best at his position. His length and strength should play well up front.

6.193: OLB Nate Palmer, Illinois State

The Packers had to draft an outside linebacker at some point in this draft. While the longer, more versatile Michael Buchanan appealed to both Brian and I, it's hard to argue with Palmer's production over the last two seasons. He clearly knows how to get after the passer, and he'll now learn to rush standing up from outside linebackers coach Kevin Greene. It's a good fit. Palmer and Dezman Moses are an intriguing set of backups for Clay Matthews and Nick Perry.

7.216: WR Charles Johnson, Grand Valley State

Johnson will either be a workout phony or a legitimate seventh-round sleeper. I'm not sure there's much grey area in between. At 6-2 and 215 pounds, Johnson ran two sub 4.4 40s and had a vertical leap of almost 40 inches. That's a rare combination of size, straight-line speed and leaping ability. The Packers now need to get Johnson's receiving acumen on the same level as the physical attributes. If they do, look out. Johnson oozes potential.

7.224: WR Kevin Dorsey, Maryland

The Packers worked out both Johnson and Dorsey in the pre-draft process, and they obviously saw enough in both to consider gambling on each player in the seventh round. But what does Dorsey offer that Johnson doesn't? Maybe Thompson is hoping one of the two will turn his elite physical skills into a capable NFL receiver. The receiver depth chart is a messy mix of talent at the bottom, which should make for a fascinating camp battle this summer.

7.232: LB Sam Barrington, USF

The Packers essentially replaced recently-released linebacker D.J. Smith with a very similar player in Barrington. Both are somewhat short, well-built thumpers who project best inside. Barrington might have more flexibility to move outside, but the two look like the same player on tape. On a side note, the whole releasing Smith deal still smells funny to me. What was the point? It wasn't money driven. Sure, he flunked his physical, but it's also April. The season doesn't start for another five months. The Chargers had little problem with his medicals and picked up him less than 24 hours after the Packers released him. Weird.

What did you think of the draft? I gave out immediate grades to every pick for Bleacher Report, but only because my bosses made me. I don't think you can grade a draft just hours after the picks are made. I'll say this; it's a good to very good draft on paper. But it still gets an incomplete grade in reality. Let's wait the necessary three years and then grade the 2013 class.

Zach Kruse is a 24-year-old sports writer who contributes to Cheesehead TV, Bleacher Report and the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. He also covers prep sports for the Dunn Co. News. You can reach him on Twitter @zachkruse2 or by email at zachkruse2@gmail.com.

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (184) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

cow42's picture

posted some of this over at Jersey Al's also...
---------
Yup.
after r1 i pretty much hate this entire draft.

i get the lacy pick… value, i guess. but did they really need to go rb again w/ franklin? dude’s pretty much a harris clone.

bakhtiari’s too light. 299 lb OL is not how you get “more physical”.

tretter – i guess i understand taking an athetic OL to mold into a backup… but in r4? seems way early.

hyde ran a 4.57… so corner’s probably a stretch. and he’s only 197 so safety’s probably a stretch.

boyd sounds like just another body to throw on top of the worthy/daniels/wilson/jolly pile. so his best attribute is his athleticism but he can’t rush the qb… ok. and to suggest he'll move into Pickett's spot is ridiculous... he's too light to play DT in a 3/4.

palmer, johnson, dorsey, and barrington will never play a regular season snap for the Packers... all of them could have been signed as UFA's.

TT obviously uses the 6th & 7th rounds as a jump start on undrafted free agency. sure it allows him to get guys he'd like to sign as undrafteds wo/ having to worry about competition from other teams... but is that "advantage" worth giving up higher round picks for?

and "yes" i will beat a dead horse – the 49?ers crushed this draft…

reid>hyde
carradine>barrington and/or palmer
mcdonald
lemonier>barrington and or palmer
patton>johnson and/or dorsey
lattimore>lacy and/or franklin
dial>boyd

Charlie M's picture

I agree with most of your points, Cow. I don't see the issue with bakhtiari’s weight, however. The big 3 lt of the first round weigh no more than 7 lbs more than Bakhitari, so what's the problem there? As far as the comparisons between the 9ers draft, it's clear to me that the pack is just over the injuries. They've released or are actively shopping anyone who has had a season ending injury, so I doubt that Lattimore or Tank were even on pack's board.

jeremy's picture

lattimore>lacy and/or franklin

You may have pretty safe points with the rest of them but Lattimore is a pretty big question mark right now. Maybe he heals like AP, maybe not.

I hated the OL picks at first to. However the more I read about them the more I keep hearing about how they have a nasty streak, and great feet. We need some more nasty on the OL, and we need guys who are athletic and can block the growing number speed rushers in the NFC.

PackersRS's picture

Lattimore won't ever be the same before the knee injury.

It was a wasted pick.

Mojo's picture

Agree - to put Lattimore over Lacy/Franklin is stupid.

cow42's picture

franklin's too little.
lacy will have one hell of an awakening when he's got to try and find a hole behind this garbage line.

lattimore - when it's all said and done - will have a better career than either of these backs... not only is he more talented... he'll be playing behind a better line... for a coach who actually thinks running the ball is a good idea.

PackersRS's picture

What good is a line when you can't put any weight on your right leg?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CryjGwbs6UA

You see that little thing? Right over there, 0:19.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CryjGwbs6UA...
Yeah, that's his right foot's toe touching his right thigh.

You believe they're just going to glue that together and it will be fine again?

It was a wasted pick. Nothing short of it.

A miracle wouldn't be enough to get this kid playing well again. A running back that cannot put weight on one of his legs cannot plant his feet. A running back that cannot plant his feet can't make hard turns.

A running back that can't make hard turns in the NFL is worth nothing.

Nick Perry's picture

Lattimore wasn't the same after the first knee injury. This second one was worse. The 49ers had so many picks they could afford to use this pick on him. I'm by no means a Ted T fan but with that said I like the top half of this draft and what he did. Jones is a stud and if Perry can come back and stay healthy, it makes for a pretty intriguing group to rush the passer. B.J. Raji actually had success when he played along side Jenkins. He had 6.5 sacks in 2010 playing with Jenkins. Jordon will help Raji get back to applying pressure on the QB. This group could get 50 sacks this season, especially with Raji playing for a new deal. I love the Lacy and Franklin pick and Balktiri is going to be a hell of a offensive lineman, watch. I think Tretter is the Packers next center. The rest of this draft who knows, but Johnson could turn out to be D.D #2.

Row60's picture

LOL at your Packers-49ers Comparison. You don't like the Packers' draft. That's fine. But why exclude Jones? Too busy dodging the sky that's falling to add him? And Lattimore>Lacy? Maybe two years ago, but, with those injuries there's no guarantee that he has anything left. Lacy and Franklin, on the other hand, were two of the consensus top 5 backs available.

Moe's picture

WOW I hate to say it but I actually agree with Cow, what is going on???

jmac3444's picture

I like that you took picks that SF took earlier and compared them to players GB took way later. Seems like a fair comparison. Also Lacy/Franklin are better than Lattimore because they can actually play vs Lattimore who is stuck on the bench. You also say that Franklin is undersized and yet there are more than enough RBs that have had successful careers that are much smaller than Franklin

cow42's picture

please list all of the 200 lb successful running backs.

jmac3444's picture

Jamal Charles(almost Identical in size), Chris Johnson when he was trying, Lesean McCoy, CJ Spiller

just to name a few

some guy's picture

Here's the kicker:

<a href="http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/johnathan-franklin?id=2539326" rel="nofollow">Johnathan Franklin, NFL Combine: 5'10, 205 pounds.</a>

Cow is freaking out over a player being a wasted pick because he's 'too light,' yet he hasn't even bothered to find out what that player actually weighs. Tells us how seriously we ought to take him and his doomsaying.

some guy's picture

I like this trick you're pulling where anyone who is below the prototypical weight is automatically going to be a failure. Yeah, let's just ignore endless numbers of undersized-yet-talented players who are currently tearing the league up. By the way, did you hear about those idiot Texans who drafted a 285-lb 3-4 DE in the first round a couple years back?! Oh man, it's going to be hilarious watching that guy get shoved around in the NFL.

Dude, there's this thing called a weight room. Players' weights aren't set in stone, and being 5 or 10 pounds light isn't a death sentence. Maybe this is a shock to you, but players routinely bulk up after coming out of college. You're like the "2/10, would not bang" guy that gets passed around in jokey pictures on Reddit and whatnot, just looking for an excuse to write it all off out of hand. I mean I get it - your schtick is that the sky is constantly falling - no matter how well the team has done in recent decades, no matter how often we're in the top tiers of the NFL, no matter how recently we won the Super Bowl. It's all over. Everything is doomed. I guess the weight thing is your crutch this year, but that's really a reach. Not that you're being particularly subtle about it - a guy who might never play again is, as of this moment, clearly a better pick than the 2 RBs we grabbed, huh? Laying it on a little thick there.

I'd hate to see how you'd react if you had to root for a team that truly sucked. In the past I've shown some of your posts to a Raider-fan friend of mine and he finds the whole things hilarious beyond words. Oh woe is us, we merely root for one of the best teams in the NFL. There might be a couple teams that are better-run than ours. It's possible that there are one or two guys in the league who play QB better than ours. It's truly a fate worse than death.

some guy's picture

For someone who puts so much stock in weight, you'd think you would at least know what the players weigh. Frankling was 205 at the combine - time for a new excuse, Cow.

cow42's picture

200's too small.
205's too small.
210's too small.

have to be able to break tackles with this offensive line.

cow42's picture

This thread has gotten a bit out of hand in regards to my "undersized" statements.

It boils down to this.

In my opinion - the #1 problem that this team has had over the last 2 seasons is an alarming lack of physicality.

I was hoping that the Packers would use this draft to begin the transformation towards becoming more physically imposing.

I feel that the individuals selected DID NOT help the team move towards that goal.

While some of the drafted players may be TALENTED I think it could definitely be at least argued that AS A GROUP they do not seem to be overly physical in nature.

Whatever Franklin's weight actually is - I think that most of you would agree that he's not considered a PHYSICAL player.

Same can be said with a number of the other draftees.

I apologize for having an opinion that differs from most of you.
I don't think that my opinions warrant the name calling and insults that I've received.

"asshole"
"troll"
"trolltard"
"idiot"
"pathetic"

Just voicing my opinion.

PackersRS's picture

Namecalling is wrong...

I lol'ed at trolltard.

jeremy's picture

Please add "idiot fucktard" to the list...

Nick Perry's picture

Warrick Dunn is who he's compared to. Dunn was even smaller and a hell of a blocker.

Clay's picture

Barry Sanders...5'7" 203

Why do we even try????

SHODAN's picture

To go with the aforementioned running backs:

-Walter Payton
-Tony Dorsett
-Thurman Thomas
-Emmitt Smith
-Tiki Barber
-Clinton Portis
-Brian Westbrook

al's picture

ya got to have play makers ya right we need more weight on that front line .

xuyee's picture

The 9ers had a ton of ammo coming into this draft from trading. You can make a good argument for trading good players away when you know you aren't going to retain them. But there is risk.
Kaepernick could easily have a sophomore slump like Cam Newton. Especially when people figure out how to stop him. In general I believe it's wrong to idolize the 9ers as far and away the best NFC team. They were lucky to be healthy at the right time. What would've happened if they had lost their best tackle, RB, and MLB like we did? For us, that was Bulaga, Benson and Bishop. For them, Staley, Gore, and Bowman. We would likely win that game. They also depend heavily on their defensive starters, using little rotation.

I actually like the draft the Rams had and think that they are a sleeper team to win the NFC west. IIRC, the 9ers couldn't beat them last season. Imagine that.

As for the Pack, a running game will help tremendously. Rodgers long ball plays IMO are most successful with play action or the "free play".
Most people remember the Fail Mary game for the last play so they forget how AR was sacked a ton in the first half but that everything got better with some successful runs. When you can beat the defense both ways, they get hesitant, like what happened to us with Gore, Kap, Crabtree, and VD.
I don't think Franklin is a wasted pick. We're sick of being stranded with injured RBs so insurance is a must.

Nick Perry's picture

I agree with you to a point. The 49ers sucked for SO LONG, they were bound to get better picking in he top 10 for so long. They also were very, very, lucky with injuries last season, same with Seattle. I'd like to see the 49ers offensive line have the injuries the Packers had last year and continue to be that dominate. Same with that defense. The injuries the Packers had to deal with last year was worse than 2010, more starters were hurt last year.

FITZCORE 1252&#039;S EVO's picture

Niners O-line were one of three in the league that started every game together. They rarely substituted on D, those starting 11 played the vast majority of snaps. Great luck with injuries.... Won't be so lucky year-in and year-out, and that's a fact.

jim's picture

you can also argue that kaepernick may, with the amount of exposure that he allows himself, incur a serious injury, which means that sf is without a starting qb

Stroh's picture

Why should we be surprised you don't like anything about the draft picks? You don't like anything about the Packers! Go root for SF if your such a freaking fan of theirs.

Kiper gave the Packers a B on the picks and an A on value! Every analyst that I saw gave the Packers a B or above from what I saw and they weren't just local they were national.

Is simply amazing the Packers have ever made the playoffs since they suck so bad IYO!

J's picture

bakhtiari’s too light. 299 lb OL is not how you get “more physical”.

Im sure the coaching staff looks to bulk up players who need it per the scheme they run. Would you avoid buying a house because you didnt like the carpeting?

Also, RB was a problem last year with injuries so adding two to me doesnt seem like that bad of an idea. RB is becoming less of an impact position in the nfl unless you have a good one. How would GB have done if they had a high impact RB that was healthy? We dont know because it hasnt happened. How much more effective would Rogers be with a consistent running game?

packsmack25's picture

Great work, Zach! I liked every pick except Lacy, who I think was just too good of a board value to pass up. The Franklin pick offsets his bust potential, though. I liked that Trgovac said that they probably won't ask Jones to gain much weight, as that was my biggest worry with him. The O-line and D-line depth is great, I never dislike drafting fatties. At least one of the 6th and 7th rounders will be a star. Love Charles Johnson's speed/fluidity. It's like getting a faster Cordarelle Patterson without making a dumb trade and reaching.

QOTSA1's picture

I kind of have mixed feeling about this draft.

I loved the picks of Jones, Lacy, and Franklin.

I like the pick of Bakhtiari assuming they want to use him at left tackle and not move him inside.

Tretter seems like a reach, and another tackle that they try to convert into a G/C. I just don't understand why TT just doesn't draft an actual G/C to play that position rather than projecting.

Boyd seems like another tweener on the DL. Too small to play NT, but does not have ideal length to play end.

Palmer didn't seem like a good value in the 6th round, but he has a very good chance to make the team just because the lack of depth at the position.

Johnson is intriguing. Dorsey seems like a practice squad guy at best. I would of rather see them take a shot at Da'Rick Rogers.

I have the same issue with Barrington as Zach points out. Why draft him and let go of DJ Smith?

BubbaOne's picture
QOTSA1's picture

I know Rogers was a character risk, but in the 7th round he would of been worth a shot.

al's picture

hes with bills now so thats not happening

Nick Perry's picture

Da'Rick was considered a 1st to 2nd round talent. He's a head case, worse than I thought considering no one touched him.

NashvillePacker's picture

They improved their ability to run the ball and created great competition along both lines. I'm fascinated to see where Bakhtiari, Tretter, Boyd an Barrington line up. Johnson could be a serious steal, love that pick given Thompsons track record at WR.

Lebowski's picture

Meh

Jamie's picture

Nice quick rundown Zach.

A lot to like about all of the picks 1st thru 5th rounds. Surprised we didn't take a Safety, but wasn't in the war room, so won't presume to argue who they should have taken or where.

I'm also not going to make height/weight/speed generalization like our resident cowpile, discounting virtually every player we drafted, as there is much more we will need to learn about these guys before labeling them one way or another.

Other thoughts...

* Really like the value of the Jones, Lacy, Bahktiari, and Franklin picks. All have starter / impact player abilities.

* Tretter looks like he might be a Center with his size, intelligence, and athleticism.

* Boyd and Hyde look like guys they just like how they play...regardless of measurables.

* Palmer is intriguing...know nothing about him, but he'll get a shot to stick.

* Johnson has unique physical traits...seems like a good kid. I'd prefer him over dimwitted Da'Rick any day.

* Dorsey...decent size and speed combo. No idea about him otherwise.

* Barrington is built much better than DJ Smith...so that's a start.

Cole's picture

Barrington is bigger, will actually be ready to play in TC, and is a much better hitter than DJ. Look at his highlights, he's just knocking people cold. Never saw DJ level anyone.

If we had gotten Hunt and Bailey, we also possibly wouldn't have got Lacy and Franklin. Lacy and Franklin are much more likely to make an immediate impact.

Beginning to think Schneider is a better GM than TT though. Of course he's had higher picks to work with on average.

cow42's picture

the more i look at this draft class the more i dislike it.

in my opinion, the Packers #1 detriment over the past 2 seasons has been an alarming lack of physicality.

of all the players in this entire draft class only 3 aren't undersized for their positions... Lacy , Dorsey, and Johnson.

Jones - undersized
Franklin - undersized
Bahktiari - undersized
Tretter - undersized (for guard, which is where he'll most likely end up)
Boyd - undersized for DT too short for DE
Hyde - ok size for corner (but too slow to play there) undersized for safety
Palmer's just weak (13 BP reps... yikes)
Barrington - undersized

Getting a 200 lb rb and 2 undersized reaches for the OL does NOT help the run game... only hope is that Lacy's able to blast forwards for 3-4 yards on his own.

I was hoping for a bunch of ass-kickers... instead we got a bunch of finesse guys (again).

6-10

Drealyn Williams's picture

James Harrison. Lawrence Timmons. Daren Sproles. Maurice JOnes-Drew. Ray Rice. Bob Sanders. Antoine Winfield. Steve Smith. Trent Cole. Andre Carter. Robert Mathis. James Anderson. Jon Beason. Cortland Finnegan. Jonathan Vilma. Chris Clemons. Elvis Dumervill. Geno Atkins. Kyle Williams. JAY RATLIFF!!! LONDON FLETCHER!!! None of them are at ideal size for their position(s),right? But they all kick ass!

Philip's picture

Jones is only 10 lbs lighter than J.J. Watt, and can easily add that 10 lbs within his first season/offseason in the league. Franklin is about the same size as MJD. Do you think MJD is undersized? Bahktiari is 300 lbs, what do you want? A fatty that can't move? You don't have to be 330 lbs to move a man who weights 330 lbs out of your way. And as far as Hyde's speed, the greatest player in NFL history was a skill position guy who ran 4.6 at the combine. You don't have to have great straight line speed to be a great football player. Don't be an idiot, Cow. Give these guys a chance to prove themselves on the field. It could turn out to be a terrible draft, it could turn out great. Or it could be mediocre. Let the players decide it on the field.

cow42's picture

"only" 10 pounds.

he's 299 - that's ridiculously light for an OT... spin it any way you want.

sure, hyde = rice... got it.

jeremy's picture

Matt Kalil is only 304. I'll bet the guy can put on 10 pounds if you ask him nicely.

Richie's picture

Luke Joeckel is 307. Eric Fisher is 306. 299 is not 'ridiculously light' for an OT. He's 7 pounds lighter than the first pick of the draft.

Some people have this obsession with big players because they think it makes them more physical, whatever that means. The truth is football is a combination of physique and technique, and I'd argue it's weighted more towards the latter than the former.

some guy's picture

Tackles generally go right around 300 pounds. They aren't all monsters like Fluker. As usual, you're knocking the team based on some nonsense you made up on the spot.

And what's this? Some actual facts, you say? Yep, some actual facts:

Fischer 6'7 306 BMI 34.5

Joeckel 6'6 306 BMI 35.4

Bakhtiari 6'4 299 <em>BMI 36.4</em>

Derp.

Philip's picture

Cow,
Maybe if you read my comments about Hyde you'd understand my argument was not to equate Hyde with Jerry Rice, but that lack of elite straight-line speed - in your underwear, no less - does not equate to failure as a skill position player in the National Football League. This is why you get called names. You overgeneralize everything.

FITZCORE 1252&#039;S EVO's picture

"Don’t be an idiot, Cow."

Oxymoron.

jeremy's picture

"Jones – undersized"
same size as Justin Smith.

"Palmer’s just weak (13 BP reps… yikes)"
That's not necessarily true. He may just be very very fast twitch (which he looks like on film.). We don't know because we don't know what his 1RM is.

MarkinMadison's picture

I can understand the reactions to the individuals. I'm not thrilled about some of these picks. But how this could add up to a 6-10 season is beyond me. Did the Bears, Vikings or Lions pass the Packers yesterday? I don't think so. So you think San Fran had a much better off-season? Fine, but, at most, San Fran can hand the Packers one loss during the regular season next year. This team may start 0-3, but they will finish better than 6-10.

cow42's picture

go through that schedule and count up the w's.

4 division wins

pitt

clev

that's all i see.

bill from trenton's picture

dear cow,u my friend are pathetic.do you actually think you are better then TT at making draft choices.this is an A draft easily.you never have anything good to say at all.do u work or are you getting paid to be a draft expert.....NOT...GET A LIFE AND FLIP THAT BURGER

Stroh's picture

Only becuz you cant like anything the Packers do or have done! Just save yourself the misery. Go rout for SF we all know what a fan your are of theirs anyway!

packeraaron's picture

"I was hoping for a bunch of ass-kickers… instead we got a bunch of finesse guys"

Funny how Tom Silverstein had the exact opposite take.

I'll take his assessment over your "how can I spin this in the most negative way possible" analysis.

cow42's picture

haven't read silverstein's article.
i'll go do that.

i'm interested in how he's going to spin drafting undersized guys into improving the overall physicality of the Packers.

sounds like it might have taken some creativity on his part.

jeremy's picture

Go tell Patrick Willis he's undersized. I DARE YOU.

cow42's picture

he's not.

jeremy's picture

"Barrington – undersized"

Barrington 6.1, 246
Willis 6.1, 240

asshole...

cow42's picture

hm.

guess he is undersized.

so barrington = willis.

got it.

cow42's picture

did willis run a 4.9?
what round did he get drafted in?

are you really comparing barrington to willis?

jeremy's picture

You said Barrington was small. Now you are changing your argument to something else to try to hide the fact that you are wrong.

cow42's picture

hey - i admitted that i was wrong regarding willis' size.

but willis is an outlier.

barrington not only is undersized, he also doesn't have the otherworldly athletic gifts that willis has.

if barrington was undersized BUT explosive he'd have a chance... but he's undersized and runs a 4.9 and only had a 9.9 broad jump.

packeraaron's picture

No more creative than instantly killing a draft class. We won't know how ANY of this works out for ANY team for at least a couple of years. But by all means, declare it a failure. Jumping to the instant negative is all you know.

cow42's picture

"We won’t know how ANY of this works out for ANY team for at least a couple of years"

that's the problem.

you have Rodgers RIGHT NOW.

draft/sign players that you can plug in RIGHT now.

who knows if Rodgers will even be playing TWO YEARS FROM NOW.

when do you say "screw the future... let's go for it!"?

MLecl0001's picture

Hey Aaron love your stuff, love seeing you do something you love and now can feed your family doing.

But for the love of everything that is holy why do you insist on feeding the troll? Every one here knows cow and his attitude, they know his tune, so why continue to give him attention?

I recently got a puppy and all the experts say that if you want to get rid of a behavior you dont punish the dog, you ignore the dog when misbehaving and reward when behaving the right way.

He keeps coming back because he knows he can get attention.

some guy's picture

"Screw the future, let's go for it"

Yeah, that strategy works great in the NFL. Like how the Philadelphia Eagles won the last two Super Bowls, for instance.

Stroh's picture

Hey cowpie... Signing FA is by no means necessarily plugging a hole! or haven't you noticed how 90% of teams that sign FA every year are rarely in the playoffs?!

some guy's picture

You're hilarious man, you really are. You think you can look at a guy's weight and, without doing any other homework whatsoever, immediately know his playing style. You're slamming Bakhtiari as 'too light' and 'a finesse guy' when he's thicker than the guys that were taken 1st and 2nd overall (there's this thing called BMI, you should check into it) and is generally regarded by the beat writers as a nasty trench fighter. But hey, he's 6 pounds lighter than what you've decided he should be, so that's all you need to start crapping all over him.

You certainly bring some humor to this place if nothing else.

RC Packer Fan's picture

Man. I wish Cow was our GM. Then we would have a good team.

the packers won't win more then 4 games this year because they didn't draft big enough guys. WTF???

Cow. Your an idiot. No offense. But do you know 1 thing other thing height and weight of these players? have you watch any of these players play?

You can't judge a player by his measurables. Here are some of the top rushers in the last few years.

Ray Rice - 5'8" 208 lbs.
Chris Johnson - 5'11" 191 lbs.
Jamaal Charles - 5'11" 199 lbs.
CJ Spiller - 5'11 200 lbs.
MJD - 5'7 210 lbs
Lesean McCoy - 5'11 208 lbs.
Alfred Morris - 5'9 218 lbs.
Doug Martin - 5'9 215 lbs.

packeraaron's picture

THANK you. I am so tired of all the "Harris isn't an every down back" BS. Guy is a beast and will play much more than people think in 2013, new draft picks be damned.

PackersRS's picture

Good point.
Good point.
Ok.
I can kind of see that.

(6-10)

And boom goes the dynamite.

California Cheesehead's picture

We finally have the potential for a thunder-and-lighting attack at running back. Can't wait to see what our team will look like, next season. People will be who they are, and these picks can be broken down any which way from Sunday, but I was really high on Datone and so glad we picked him.
I don't know what was up with trading down again because the Rams got our targeted receiver, but am intrigued by Johnson, as well.
Excited for football, but we have some Brewers coming back from injury that will make baseball season good enough to hold off the pigskin fervor. GO, PACK, GO!

packsmack25's picture

Don't take the bait, guys.

Drealyn Williams's picture

Damn! Too late...

jeremy's picture

true, true, he has nothing else to do...

FITZCORE 1252&#039;S EVO's picture

You are wise oh Smacky McSmackerson.

al's picture

hey packsmack25 ? ya like me smart about football one thing i didnt want lacy but o well then we got franklen i really think the packs fooling every body thinking their running the ball more i just dont see more than 20 touches a game for any RB what you think sir ?

Drealyn Williams's picture

Waste draft picks to fool teams? Don't think so. Every coach would like to have a good running game. It makes things so much easier.

some guy's picture

But it's so fun! I love watching him be wrong, and if you say things to him he'll usually be wrong even more in response. It's a conundrum.

norm's picture

Funny how this draft was rated an A, yet the trolls and cry babies think they are smarter than the pros. Ha Ha

Jamie's picture

Seriously, Cowpile...if you're going to be a troll (you don't even dispute that is all you are and have ever been), and you are a fan of the Packers (that is debatable...and I'm still not sold), why don't you go find a Vikings or Bears board to troll on?

Or better yet, go see a psychiatrist and get on some really good meds. It would be a simple diagnosis...just show the doc your deeply demented obsession with being a trolltard on this board, and BOOOM...there's your scrip.

Who am I kidding...ur far too gone.

Trolltard on.

cow42's picture

because i don't care if the bears or vikings get better (which they have)... i only care whether or not the Packers get better (which they haven't).

IT PISSES ME OFF THAT WE'RE WASTING RODGERS.

20+ YEARS OF HAVING HALL OF FAME QUARTERBACKS AND WE'RE ONLY GOING TO GET 2 TROPHIES OUT OF IT... THAT SUCKS.

TT should have been moving UP to get DIFFERENCE MAKERS... not trading DOWN to get camp fodder.

we don't have time to wait for these young projects to (hopefully) develop... we need to win NOW... because we have Rodgers NOW...

'F' THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!

NOW IS THE TIME!!!!!!!!

RIGHT NOW!!!!!!

ted, of bill and ted's picture

i tend to side with cow on this. although i think he puts a tad to much emphasis on having guys that are not 'undersized' (there are plenty of players who play bigger than they are) i completely agree that now is not the time to be drafting a majority of guys that 'may' be good 3 years from now (bahktiari, tretton...pretty much every pick besides jones, lacy, and franklin). now pay attention to the fact that i said majority...i understand the packers philosophy is draft and develop, and that's fine, i think it's good to take a couple guys every year that could be really good down the line. but with only so many years left of rodgers i really would have expected some more immediate impact players, or at least players that would really push the guys we have to step up their games. it seems to me that like half the picks we made were guys we could have signed as udfa's. the only thing i can infer from that is that the gb staff must have a lot of faith in some of the draftees from last year to really come into their own this year. fingers crossed?...that's a lot of faith to have. but cow is absolutely right when he points out we've had 20 plus years of great quarterbacking, and only two lombardi's. that shit is weak.

Stroh's picture

I would say we got 2 immediate starter in Jones and Lacy! Doesn't that qualify as immediate help? Just cuz teams sign FA doesn't make them playoff teams, as a matter of fact it rarely does! FYI, this was a draft that had very few playmakers. Why do you think 2 OG went in the top 10?

Last time we had a draft like this one was in '09 which the experts said was a poor draft, yet Thompson mined BJ Raji and Matthews out of that "poor" draft. This year we got what looks like 2 immediate starter too.

That Thompson guy is a hack, how the hell will we ever make the playoffs again?

jeremy's picture

TT should have been moving UP to get DIFFERENCE MAKERS… not trading DOWN to get camp fodder.

Go count the differences between the numbers of Probowlers drafted in each part of the draft historically.
- Picks 1-19 are all about the same.
- Picks 20-50 are all about the same.
- Picks 50-100 are all about the same.
- Rounds 4-6 are all about the same.
- Rounds 7-9 are all about the same.

Basically you the same chance of getting an impact player no matter were you pick in those zones. Given the nature of draft day trades it's just not possible to trade large numbers of later round picks for a substantially earlier one. TT knows this, so he trades back in the same bracket and gets more swings. You don't have to like it. TT has been a part of the drafts for at least four Superbowl teams.

How many you got, Cow?

al's picture

ya cow will eat crow this year because i see this years packers will be more phyisical plays offence and deffence !!!

PackersRS's picture
Jamie's picture

Ramp it up trolltard...a true loser at life.

glorious80s's picture

My only problem with TT's method is that if you are relying on the draft to stock your team, you need to get a shot at the higher draft choices. Only way to do is lose, package lower round draft choices or next year's picks to move up, or trade. The first is not optimal, the second needs a willing partner, and to trade future picks is risky and the last is something GB doesn't seem to want to do. Unfortuneatly, GB tends to let players go free agent rather than get some value for them.

some guy's picture

"if you are relying on the draft to stock your team, you need to get a shot at the higher draft choices"

What on earth are you talking about? Shouldn't the fact that this team consistently gets low draft picks <em>because it wins so many games on such a consistent basis</em> tell you that your argument is a bit off-base?

Clay's picture

Cow (and other paying attention to Cow), please don't forget you ave said that Aaron Rodgers is to quote, "an above averge QB". You advocated trading him instead of signing him to an extension.

So know in your world we are stuck with an overpaid, above average QB, and here's the best part of your logic...now you want to sell out in the draft so that we don't waste his glory years!

Oh the glory years of an above average QB.

Thank GOD your take on reality is limited to your perception.

Clay's picture

* have
* now

Typos:)

cow42's picture

i never advocated trading Rodgers.

and he is above average.
way above average... but above average non-the-less.

and i'm not advocating "selling out the draft". i just would like to see more of a sense of urgency.

Rodgers won't last forever.

Clay's picture

Right..it was the other Cow 42.

Fact is you did advocate it.

Sometime in December I suspect you will also disown your prediction of a 6-10 season.

Stroh's picture

Somehow in your warped reality the best player in the entire NFL is "above average"?! Right? Got it...

JJB's picture

I just love the Viking bloggers on other blogs saying how the vikings went from the worst WRs in the division to the best. Hahhaha OK then. The Packers went from the worst RBs in the division to the best. Home run on this draft TT. I questioned the first pick but better now. Only problem I have is if one of our big 3 WRs go down then we might be in some trouble. Would of loved Patton but to late. Go away cow

cow42's picture

The Vikings could actually make that argument... I hadn't even considered it - but if you add TE to the mix... they may be right.

As for the RB argument... stop it. AP and (enter any name in the universe here) is still a better tandem then Lacy/Franklin.

Point Packer's picture

Go away.

jim's picture

but........ap doesnt have aaron rodgers on his team

Moe's picture

How many years have the Vikings wasted the talent of AP by not drafting a quality QB to go with? One year with #4 does not count.

Mojo's picture

I like the Johnson flyer in the seventh. Nice size - super speed and a 40 inch verticle - are you kidding me? Dorsey seems slightly less athletic, but more polished. Wasn't Victor Cruz a UDFA?

Hyde seems like to much of a tweener, but you never know.

Tretter seems like a much better prospect than the backups they have at quard and has good size to play center if they went that route.

Hated Lacy at 26, but satisified they took him late 2nd. No problem with that. With him and Franklin, the Pack finally have a running game teams will have to respect. Really makes play-action more viable.

The o-line competition just picked up with Bakhtiari. Keep in mind we don't know what the status of Datko and Sherrod will be coming into camp. Supposedly Sherrod had a second surgury and is progressing much better after this one. Is Datko recovered from his shoulder problems? If so he and Sherrod, along with the new guys who most likely will play inside, would give the Packers more than enough depth on o-line. And Barclay was a decent player at RT considering how little time he had to prepare.

Overall not a bad draft. Alot of bodies, but the Pack will need to constantly replenish what they have, because they'll be losing a couple of quality players in each of the next few years.

jim's picture

remembering that injuries have taken their toll, and still will, i am excited about the future of the running game. last year, what running back didnt get injured... and i believe backs were rushed into service before they had an oppurtunity to heal. with the lacy and franklin additions to starks and greene, it seems that, even with the inevitable injuries, someone will be available to move the ball on the ground. and, with a ground game, cover two wont be so prevalent and the pass rush on rodgers has to be adjusted to respect the new ground game. bakhtiari was rated as one of the very top tackles after the big boys got away.... and moving up for an offensive tackle and losing the rest of their board would have been a major mistake, in my opinion. excited about the running backs, defensive linemen, and wide receivers appear to be a steal in seventh round, if they can make the team. it is kinda tough to build a super bowl team with all first rounders when you only have one each year. t.t. hit it, as far as i am concerned....great draft.

cow42's picture

the backs don't matter if your line sucks... and your coach is pass-happy.

i'd put $ on the offense looking exactly as one-dimensional next year as it has the last 2.

packeraaron's picture

Yes Cow. The 49ers killed it by taking guys you heard of.

Deep man. Real deep.

FITZCORE 1252&#039;S EVO's picture

Lmao... So effing true.

cow42's picture

I knew (ie. heard of) every one of the Packer draft picks...

which is why i'm so upset.

some guy's picture

Oh yeah? Where did you hear these things? Was it the same place that told you Bhaktiari is a finesse player? Sorry, maybe I'm being unclear - what I'm trying to ask is, did you pull your scouting report on the other 9 guys out of your ass just like you did with Bhaktiari?

jeremy's picture

I especially appreciate how he says he is "just voicing his opinion" with this nonsense.

Then he goes on to insult TT for wasting Aaron Rodgers, the Packers organization for only winning two Superbowls in the last 20 years, and basically calls half the Packers Players weaklings.

Does he know that the rest of the NFC North/Central has only won one Superbowl ever?

It's truly unbelievable.

FITZCORE 1252&#039;S EVO's picture

I am absolutely STOKED about this draft, for two reasons... Lacy and Franklin. Those two have the potential to make our offense damn near impossible to stop. Defenses are going to have to pick their poison, and whatever they choose, we have a very good chance of exploiting it.

Also, I hope this means Kuhn never, ever gets another carry. Actually, he can just leave, not a great true FB.

It's been pretty much a decade since we've had a back with talent like these two have. Can only help our team. Fucking love it. Oh, great value too... Got both these studs AND Dialtone... Ted doing what Ted do.

cow42's picture

yeah, yeah - you won't respond to me...

but...

yes-are their backs better now than they were friday? yes.

are the backs they just drafted talented enough to "make something out of nothing"? because that's what they'll have in terms of holes with this offensive line... nothing.

i have my doubts that they're talented enough to do it.

an the 4th rd tackles the Packers just drafted will not help in the run game... not this year for sure.

jim's picture

what round was josh sitton drafted in???

cow42's picture

4

RC Packer Fan's picture

Its funny to me how Harris was able to run for a 4.8 yard average against the 49ers with the Packers o-line.
He ran 34 times for 157 yards. 4.6 yard average. Is that nothing?
The best part about Franklin when I watched him was his ability to find little holes and attack them. He has the ability to get through tiny holes. Harris excelled at that last year as well.

Packers run game will be much improved. Imagine what Harris with a full offseason could do. Also Lacy will provide a big physical runner that they didn't have before. Franklin is a physical runner as well.. They will actually have a run game this year.
The part that excites me is getting rid of Kuhn on short yardage runs.

Also the RB's will provide a receiving threat out of the backfield. Something they haven't had for a while.

FITZCORE 1252&#039;S EVO's picture

Yeah, why coach abandoned the run game in S.F. after that hot start baffles me. I think he had some kind of epiphany while watching that tape or something. Signed a run blocking TE this offseason, drafted two good looking backs... I've gotta believe he's finally realized what potential even a threat of a ground game could give this offense.

jim's picture

when the packers backs were healthy lately, which was rare, i loved the running attack. with these additions, i agree with you, fitz, this entire backfield is going to create a nightmare for d coordinators throughout the league. if we can get the walking wounded back on the field to play at a level near what they are capable of, this is going to be a real exciting year. pickett, raji, jones, backed by worthy and others ought to make a formidable d line... what if john jolly returns and gets back into shape? i loved how intimidating he was... d line backed up by perry on the strong side and matthews on the weak side and, if they can remain healthy, ought to benefit from the first round acquisition. d backs are the packers forte, in my opinion. lots of promise. great to see. best qb in the game today, a running game that has improved immensely, and the addition of a tight end who blocks well. i just cant see how somebody cant like what the packers look like this year.

Carl's picture

There have beem alot of decent ol mem thuogh green bay,in the last few years.
I don't beleave they can be all that bad.
Could it be Campman can't couch zone skeem!!

FITZCORE 1252&#039;S EVO's picture

Well said Carl.

Jamie's picture

Barrington may be a find...at worst a quicker and more explosive version of DJ Smith.

I was alarmed by his slow 40 time at the combine, but also saw that he had to cut his combine short due to a bad back.

At his pro day, he dramatically improved his 40 time (to 4.69) as well as his vertical and broad jump, which to me would indicate his back affected his combine results.

*Yes, I am well aware that pro day 40s often time faster than combine 40s...but verticals and broad jumps are typically similar.

jeremy's picture

"pro day 40s often time faster than combine 40s"

Maybe some of that is waking up in your own bed at a reasonable hour instead of 4am in some Indy hotel.

ScottM's picture

Its really hard to get excited about mid round OL picks but unless you are drafting early you are taking a flyer on incomplete talent in your OT's. Sure it would be great if Fisher was taken by the Pack, but he was drafted 1 overall....so getting bent out of shape on who the Packers grab in the 4th at OT is a waste of energy, they will all be hit or miss.

cow42's picture

so take a flier on OL later.
r4's are for players you can use soon.

packeraaron's picture

No. They're not. They're investments in talent.

cow42's picture

some investments are expected to pay off sooner than others.

i agree with tt's philosophy...

don't mortgage the future.
keep the roster young.
develop the players you have.

problem is the players aren't developing.

of the last 3 drafts (not including this one) they've really only gotten QUALITY on field contributions from...

bulaga
burnett (debatable)
cobb
hayward

that's not a high enough % of "hits" to offset the talent that's been leaving due to age or what have you.

lebowski's picture

damn injuries are really killing things

some guy's picture

Nah dude we should have pulled a Ditka and traded the entire draft to move up and take Fischer. That's the kind of WIN NOW PHYSICAL MENTALITY this team needs. Without it we're simply doomed -- actually I just checked the front page of the JS and they said we're already eliminated from the '13 playoffs :'(

Bibbon Hazel's picture

Tinkering Ted scheming again. Grade A. Speaking of fodder, after the "undersized" claim was completely debunked its hard to argue with the production of all the Ted's picks. Every pick produced and had great numbers on the field where it counts.Aaside from Dorsey who had the water boy throwing him passes by week 3 last year, Ted knocked it out of the park with all conference team leaders aka football players. Great job Ted. At least 5-6 of these guys will be making positive impacts this year. Great job!

cow42's picture

debunked?

because barrington weighs more than willis?

clearly has NOT been debunked.

but, whatever.

cow42's picture

"At least 5-6 of these guys will be making positive impacts this year."

this statement is absolute blind ridiculousness.

unless you define a "positive impact" as making a special teams tackle. then i might agree with you.

but if as a GM you are going to ONLY use the draft... you've got to be better than pulling a couple special teamers each year.

just my opinion.

zeke's picture

What is "absolute blind ridiculousness" is thinking you can accurately assess a draft class an hour after the selections are made.

some guy's picture

Everybody knows that weight is the one and only measurement of a good football players. These guys just aren't fat enough -- tough luck, we lose. Maybe next year.

Lucky953's picture

I think this staff does a pretty good job of identifying guys with some talent. Coaching and competition makes players better. Some will develop " unexpectedly ". I say that because picking the Fishers and Lanes is pretty easy (and they don't all make it either, think Gabe Carimi). Some of those won't blossom. Oh well. You have to trust your scouts and your coaches. I don't care what pick you're drafted: NOBODY is a sure thing in this league. Some people don't have faith in the Packers staff. Ok, fine. Root for SF or Seattle or NE, wherever you can believe in a team. I love the Packers organization. I believe they want to win Championships even more than I want them to and I do believe they are using every bit of intelligence, experience, effort, and know-how they can. I couldn't ask for more than that. 36-9 is something to feel proud of. Some of these guys drafted are going to give us a pleasant surprise. I love that. This has been a really fun 20 year run for our team. Go Pack Go!

cow42's picture

never said i didn't think the Packers were trying.
just think they can do a better job.

i'd gladly trade coaching staffs with any of the teams you listed, by the way.

some guy's picture

You're bitching about bad drafting while simultaneously pining for Belichick to be your GM and coach? Yeah, if only we had been good enough to lose 2 Super Bowls in the last half-dozen years. That would have been so much better than winning one.

packeraaron's picture

Well what do you know. McGinn's pretty high on this draft class.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/draft-could-be-repeat-of-gms-2009...

But, you know, cow says they're all undersized, derp.

zeke's picture

What does McGinn know? Sure, he talks to scouts who do this for a living. And maybe he's watched hours of tape and has years of experience analysing football. But at the end of the day he doesn't really have any credibility because he doesn't troll a fan web site by pulling things out of his ass in an effort to get attention like some idiot fucktard. You're dead to me, McGinn.

cow42's picture

I think I read this article.

It's the one where he refers to Bakhitiari as a "finesse player", states that Franklin is "probably too small to be an every down back", and mentions the fact that Tretter's going to need to get stronger, right?

Hmm... maybe I'm not as far off base as all of you seem to think.

cow42's picture

Oh - and basically dismisses Barrington as camp fodder who lacks "instincts".

That is the article you are referring to, correct?

Stanislaw's picture

Cow,

I'm in agreement in some of what you say - just because you get some good backs, doesn't mean they'll have holes to run through or the head coach will actually give them the ball to run with - but you claim that TT took projects instead of 'players' who can play NOW. Take a look at the lists and tell me, who would you have taken in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th rounds.

Thanks

Fi cr's picture

Why he would have bundled the ten picks into a trade for a second rounder who is oversized and can help N0W

devil doc's picture

I wouldn't be surprised if Franklin is getting the majority of the carris over Lacy by the middle of the year.

some guy's picture

No, Franklin is tiny. He only weighs 205 pounds and as soon as a linebacker touches him he's going to disintegrate. Literally. It'll look like someone smashed a pinata on the field. Everyone knows that running backs who weigh less than 210 pounds spontaneously combust on initial contact.*

*unless he adds weight before the season, in which case the magic cutoff for automatic failure will be moved to (his weight + 5 pounds)

PackerPete's picture

I'm so glad to see that Barry Sanders (5'8'', 200 lbs) and Walter Payton (5'10'', 200 lbs) were really undersized and tiny, and should've never made it in the NFL.

Ma Linger's picture

I used to love the hate the Vikings. Having lived in Miinny for a long time due to govt job, I was forced to watch them. Over time they gained some respect for me. As an observer I noticed they do pretty dam good in the draft. Adrian Peterson - five teams passed on him, Randy Moss -every team passed on him. I also noticed they tend to draft guys from Stanford, Harvard. Ya guys who are smart enough to learn the rules and not MAKE STUPID MISTAKES.

The Vikes have been one of the least penalized teams in football and have had winning records, albiet no SB victories.

Last year they drafted 3 pro bowl rookies. This year they cunningly added another 3 top rookies, 2 of which were predicted in the top ten but they went later to the Vikes.

Last year we drafted two guys who have yet to produce. I've heard the word 'potential' used on Perry so much I could puke. A number one isn't supposed to have potential. He is supposed to be a play maker our of the gate and help the team right now. A three pick, had potential.

Ted is forced to play Money Ball and get cheap players from colleges you never heard of. He trades back to save money not to show off how smart he is. Most of our late draft picks will be busts while our counterparts loaded up on free agents and top draft picks to put on the field against us.

There is a reason why a Michigan beats Furman every year. The Play makers on are Michigan. The Pack are getting a lot of Furmans. But there cheap.

I think this draft could be a bigger bust than last year.

Point Packer's picture

Yeah, the Vikings have constantly beaten the Packers and all its "Furmans" during the Ted Thompson era.

Stupid post.

bill from trenton's picture

INJURIES WERE OUR MAIN PROBLEM LAST YEAR O-LINE KILLED US. P.S. I THINK COW42 IS REALLY TED T STIRRIN THE POT

Ma Linger's picture

5,6,7 round draft picks are the guys who didn't play div 1 because they weren't tough enough. Were drafting pansies and expecting them to be NFL caliber players.

Point Packer's picture

Donald Driver was a pussy.

Stroh's picture

So was Tauscher and Wells.

mani2packers's picture

How many effin teams lose their 2010,2011, 2012 first round picks to IR and starting RB. Two starting ILB. #1 wr for at least half the season. #2 wr for a bunch of games, starting safety and still win 11 games and wild card round?

mani2packers's picture

And harris was avg 5 yards a carry against niners and a few teams towards the end of the season behind this crappy line. Hard to keep running the d cant stop the other team.

mani2packers's picture

Complains about having to extend Matthews and Rodgers check. Should have released them. complains about not addressing a rb. Check. Pack get two of the best in the draft and still not good enough. 49ers could draft a turtle and he would say hes the best in the world. Dude is a bandwagon bitch. Follows any team that is on top of the conference. Never was or will be a real packers fan.

cow42's picture

sure.
i'll just go down with the sinking ship with a smile on my face.

that oughta' make me a "real Packer fan".

plain and simple - i didn't think this draft addressed the Packers' lack of physicality.

that's all i posted.
that's all i've been arguing.
it's my opinion.

RC Packer Fan's picture

I just don't see where they didn't address their physicality. The 2 RB's they drafted are the 2 most physical RB's in the draft. If you watch them you see that.
I don't know about the lineman but I read that they had a nasty streak.

Datone Jones is the prototypical 3-4 DE, and can play all over the line. He is more of a pass rushing threat. And that addresses a huge need.

I don't want to rip u for your opinion, because it is your opinion. I just don't get the physical part.

Also just because Franklin is 205 lbs doesn't mean he isn't physical. He is a hard nosed runner. He is a lot like DuJuan Harris/MJD with the way he runs.

They really improved the RB's in this draft.

PackerPete's picture

Let's face it, how many college teams is each of us watching during the season? Many of us have one team, watch them every week. Then maybe one or two other teams on occasion. Then maybe watch the bowl games. But can somebody really say they know every player the Packers drafted? Even if one has heard the name, who has really watched those guys play? I have to admit, the only 2 players I have seen this season play and remember how they played were Jones, Lacy and Franklin. And even those 3 I saw in 2 games each. That is because I mostly watch Northern Illinois (closest to my home), and Wisconsin on occasion. If there is an interesting game on, I watch Pac-10 or SEC. And then a few of the bowl games. So I wouldn't judge any of the players really, but see how they work out first. And just checking someone's height and weight and concluding on whether they make it in the NFL or not is downright foolish. Guess the Packers should've never signed Donald Driver then?

packsmack25's picture

The trolls won this thread. Any thread here that gets over 100 comments is inevitably: A) A post about a jerk that was once a QB here or B) A thread that was hijacked by trolls. They won. As long as you respond to them, they will always win. Attention and constant argument is what they desire, not the logic of normal people.

jeremy's picture

Boy, you said it. Acknowledging him only makes it worse. I feel sorry for whoever has to work with this guy. Can you imagine?

Ma Linger's picture

When I hear comments, we were lucky Lacy was available, and how smart TT was to move around and still get him, I shrug my shoulders and say, wait a minute. When the pack has a chance to pick, there were some very good football players available be passed on for late round picks. Late round picks that are cheap to sign. That is Ted's secret, he has no money and because of the Packers situation, he cannot go in debt. This is a public held company so he must play by different rules.
Ted is playing 'Money Ball'. Unfortunately we have some of those cheap players on the team that aren't producing, they seem to get hurt often, you can't trade them for other picks and they take up money and time coaching them just to see them leave after two years as busts.

FITZCORE 1252&#039;S EVO's picture

Ted has no money? Ted must play by different rules?

Are you FUCKING HIGH, son?

Point Packer's picture

I think so. Must from time to time take a break from listening to the "Coast to Coast AM" archive to scan CHTV.

FITZCORE 1252&#039;S EVO's picture

LMAO, I occasionally get thrown on nights for a day or two, coast to coast rules at 2:00 am! It's absolutely the Jerry Springer of radio, I can't believe people like that actually exist!

Point Packer's picture

Oh, they do. Every once in awhile there's a nugget of truth in there. But they are few and far between. That being said, its occasionally a guilty pleasure that I'm guilty of.

Art Bell was better than Georg Noory...

Evan's picture

Just another troll. Can't shut up about the Vikings 3 pro bowlers.

Lucky953's picture

Of all 10 teams running a 3-4 defense, the average of starting DEs is 6-4 304 lbs. They range from 6-2 to 6-8 and 280 to 345.

The TKstinator's picture

It's really too early to comment on the draft, except to say that some of these guys will exceed expectations while others will fall short. Thing is, none of us KNOW which is which. Yet.

Also, I hit you guys with some zany crap during the live chats.

Yowza!

Stanislaw's picture

Again Cow - you said this:

"plain and simple – i didn’t think this draft addressed the Packers’ lack of physicality."

Ok - who would you have picked? Because if you don't say a name, then by all accounts you're just a troll. Give me who you would have taken instead and let's meet in a year and see how it ended up.

FITZCORE 1252&#039;S EVO's picture

DO NOT ENGAGE. I REPEAT. DO NOT ENGAGE.

cow42's picture

Schwenke C Cal
Winters G Kent St.
Foketi G West Texas A&amp;M
Williams OT UNC
Gilkey OT Chad. St.
Kelce TE Cin
McDonald TE Rice
Sudfeld TE Nev
Patton WR La.Tech
Bailey WR West VA
Boyce WR TCU
Harper WR KSU
Juszczyk FB Harv
Bell RB MSU
Michael RB Tex A&amp;M
Williams DT 'Bama
Jenkins DT UGA
Williams DT MSS
Hughes DT TN Martin
Williams DE UNC
Moore OLB Tex A&amp;M
Lemonier OLB Aub
Collins OLB So Miss
Washington OLB UGA
Simon OLB OSU
Bass OLB MWS
Powell OLB Harding
Minter ILB LSU
Klein ILB ISU
Williams ILB FSU
Taylor CB BSU
Cyprien S FIU
Elam S Fla
Wilcox S Ga. So
Williams S UGA
Rambo S UGA

cow42's picture

I didn't include anyone that the Packers would have had to have moved up to get.

PackerPete's picture

Well it's nice to see a list with 36 players... But the Packers in the end only had 11 draft picks. So I guess if only 5 of those 36 will be great, then you'll say see I told you so... Here is a challenge: Instead of giving 36 names, just give 11. For each of the Packers picks, who would you've chosen in rounds 1 - 7? And no, there won't be a "I would've traded up..." just 11 names, starting with pick #26, all the way to #232 when they took Barrington.

cow42's picture

So I can pick any 11 players that were picked after 25?
I could pick players drafted 25 - 35 if I wanted?

That's silly.

This whole idea is dumb. What are you going to do, save the players I pick and compare them to players the Packers picked?

That's ridiculous.

Who knows how a player would perform on one team as opposed to another? For instance - Bahktiari can probably compete for a starting spot on the Packers because their line sucks, whereas if he was drafted by the 49'ers he would probably be on the practice squad. But at the end of the year you'd say Bahktiari had a good year for the Packers because he "made X amount of starts".

This would be a waste of time.

PackerPete's picture

No, I just wanted to call out your BS... You throw out a list of names, but then state yourself that one cannot tell at this time how certain players will perform playing for different teams.
I guess if you are so great about predicting who will be a great NFL player, just submit your resume with the Packers or any other team, and become a scout or GM or whatever other function let's you influence draft decisions.
In my opinion, Ted drafted well. We will all see how it shakes out, but overall he drafted players who can help, but I've only seen 3 of the drafted players play myself, and only for a couple of games each. That's why we have professionals picking for the Packers, and based on the success in the past few years, they did well for quite some time. I am looking forward to the 2013 season, and will just sit back and enjoy. Whether the Packers will win it all or not even make the playoffs, or anything in between, nobody knows, and nobody will know until 2014. All I know is, nobody has won a SB in April, so I'm not going to worry about it.

cow42's picture

That's the problem I have right there...

You like the draft - so everything's cool.

I don't so - I get sarcastically told to "submit my resume" to NFL teams.

Neither of us know sh*t.

Both of our opinions are just that... opinions.

The fact that my opinion is a negative opinion does not make it any less of an opinion than yours.

I shouldn't have to support it any more than you should.

hump's picture

well cow,everyone is on your ass,but most of the players you mentioned are pretty solid,so that deserves merit,cuz you didnt just pull them out of a hat,and i couldnt agree more that, a rod has prbly 5 prime yrs left,and now is the time to load up and go for it, and that does not mean signing free agents to astronomical contracts,but please ted,cant you just grab us one nfl starting caliber safety!!! meanwhile, when datone jones,mike neal,nick perry and clay matthews are all rushing the passer on 2nd or 3rd and long,thats a pretty solid group,only problem is....if they dont get home,you will see md jennings trailing the ballcarrier 10 yards behind! if anybody still has seniorbowl practices still on dvr,go back and watch the 1on1 pass rushing drills,DATONE JONES is a man amoungst boys including ERIC FISHER!!! like i told STROH.......DATONE JONES IS TOP 5 TALENT AND IF HE IS THERE AT 26 THE PACKERS WILL PICK HIM!!! NOW TED....PLEASE GET US A SAFETY SOMEHOW!!!!

CSS's picture

"..cuz you didnt just pull them out of a hat..."

Not out of a hat, but from other amature scouting reports he's read off the internet. He's never seen 95% of the kids he listed play in a game (I'm being generous, it's likely 100%). I'd be happy to copy and paste 100 names, doesn't mean I've seen them actually play and if he was only going by highlight clips I'd bet my savings he doesn't know what he's even assessing.

Scout: footwork, open/closed hips in-line, flexibility, hand-placement, punch, slide, extension, functional strength, balance, stamina, weight distribution, reach, peddle, plant, anchor......

Cow: I like his size I read on the internet and recognize his name. Therefore, got game.

FITZCORE 1252&#039;S EVO's picture

"I like his size I read on the internet and recognize his name. Therefore, got game."

AbsoFuckingLutely.

cow42's picture

So anyone who "likes" this draft class is automatically more knowledgeable than anyone who doesn't.

Why?

I'm guessing the majority of people who think this was a good draft for the Packers think that way because of reports they've read ON THE INTERNET.

Why do I need to "support" my opinion because I'm not high on this year's class.

Why don't you guys "support" your opinion. By the way - don't use any information that you may have read in publications or on the internet. Only use information that you gathered by reviewing game tapes and scouring scouting reports.

The double standard here is comical.

Point Packer's picture

What's comical is your uncanny inability to be positive about anything related to the Packers. I've met my fair share of Debbie Downers, but you my friend, take the cake.

cow42's picture

"What’s comical is your uncanny inability to be positive about anything related to the Packers. "

Did you watch the 49'er game?

Stanislaw's picture

Cow, you state (and I'm paraphrasing) TT picked 'projects' when I would have picked 'starters'. Correct me if I'm wrong but to me that sounds like you are saying you know better than the Packers GM.

So let me clarify my request. we don't need a bunch of player names, all that proves is that you can copy lists. Why don't you say who you would have picked instead of the actual player chosen. Obviously you couldn't have picked Luke Joeckel in lieu of Datone Jones but you can go, GB picked Lacy at 61 but I would have picked 'John Jenkins'. Capeesh?

I think this would do a couple of things. Show your acumen - let's see, maybe you have really good ideas and it would gender a more interesting debate.

What say you?

007's picture

Did you watch the Vikings game? Ponder would have made not much of a difference. Yes the glass is half full.

cow42's picture

i don't want a half full glass.
looking for the whole thing to be full.

-a

007's picture

simple analogy don't read into it too much. Besides NO nfl teams glass is completely full year in and year out. Its optimism and professionalism that makes Green Bay a great franchise. You know the queens were a stadium deal away from hauling ass to LA right?

Tundraboy's picture

5 , 10 lbs who cares. Abilty, Passion for football, not to mention heart is what counts. Great things come in small packages. These are all young guys who are bound to add weight anyway.

Time will tell who are players and who are not regardless of size. Cant wait til camp and the season

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