Does NFL Playing Experience Make A Coach Better?

Which Packers coaches have previous NFL playing experience and does it affect their coaching?

On Monday, the Arizona Cardinals hired Jen Welter as one of their Bill Walsh NFL Minority Coaching Interns, and in doing so, helped create more cracks in the glass ceiling. Welter becomes the first woman to coach in the NFL.

While most reactions were positive and welcoming, there were some of the predictable negative comments on twitter. How can she coach, she never played? When confronted with the fact that she has played fotball, some questioned the level she has played at, her experience, how could she be right for the NFL, etc.

First things first. Welter was hired as an intern. Bill Walsh first came up with the coaching intern concept in 1987, and since over 1,500 participants have worked through the program. The goal of the program was to introduce minority coaches to NFL coaching practices. The coaches often came from lower college ranks or players out of the league a couple of years looking for a new career path.

The intern program began as, and continues to be, a place to learn. A way to expand the NFL coaching talent pool outside of the established coaching trees; to bring new blood and ideas into the NFL.

In 2012, the NFL established an advisory committee, to help ensure that all NFL teams were reaching out and hiring interns. That year, 91 interns were hired, with 26 former players among their ranks.

Some of the interns go on to NFL coaching careers, some return to their current coaching jobs, some realize coaching isn’t for them. Teams are encouraged to hire a minimum of 4 interns a year, but the range of hired interns is 1 – 6 per team, a year. Interns work with the teams through training camp and preseason. Some famous fellowship program graduates include: Marvin Lewis, Leslie Frazier, Lovie Smith and the Packers own John Rushing.

Dr. Welter’s participation in this program is the exact reason the program exists. The internship program aims to attract people outside of the NFL’s normal circles, increase minority participation within the coaching ranks and to teach the NFL coaching principles to those who would otherwise not get this opportunity.

Jen Welter currently serves as the linebackers and special teams coach for the Indoor Football League’s Texas Revolution, the same team that she played running back for in 2014. She played for a couple of women’s semi pro football teams and won two gold medals as part of Team USA at the International Federation of American Football's (IFAF) Women's World Championship in 2010 and 2013. She possesses a Master’s Degree in sport psychology and a PhD in psychology.

She is nearly the perfect definition of someone who is outside the normal NFL circles, possesses football knowledge and has a desire to learn more about NFL coaching.

But despite being explained these facts, some still questioned: She never played at a “real” (division 1 or NFL) level, how can she coach?

Can one coach if they’ve never played? The old adage, “Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach” would suggest a coach is a teacher because they couldn’t play, but internet naysayers also don’t listen to adages.

So as the Packers season is so close you can taste it, let’s examine the “you have to play to coach” argument within the Packers organization.

The Packers have two coaches assigned to Special Teams, coordinator Ron Zook and his assistant Jason Simmons. Zook has an extensive coaching resume, yet never played a down in the NFL. After playing as a defensive back at Miami of Ohio, Zook moved directly into the coaching ranks as a graduate assistant at Murray. Simmons on the other hand played for 10 years. He began his coaching career with the Packers in 2011. He is very slowly moving up the coaching ranks, spending a couple years as a coaching administrator and eventually special teams assistant.

On the defensive side of the ball, only one position coach (outside of head coach associates) has NFL experience. Joe Whitt, Secondary – Cornerbacks Coach, went straight from a medical hardship at Auburn to a student assistant coach. Mike Trgovac, Defensive Line Coach, followed a similar path, going straight from his playing days at Michigan to a graduate assistant under Bo Schembechler.

John Rushing, Defensive Quality Control, was a 2008 Bill Walsh Intern. A 4 year defensive back at Washington State, he worked up the ranks in college with coaching jobs at Boise, Montana and then Utah State. He’s been with the Packers since finishing his internship.

Darren Perry, Secondary – Safeties Coach, is the only straight defensive coach with playing experience. Perry played from 1992 – 2000. He began his coaching career in 2002 with the Bengals

Jerry Montgomery, Defensive Front Assistant, spent training camp with the Saints in 2002, but was cut before the season, and he returned to Iowa as a student assistant in 2003. He did play in the Arena Football League for 2 years before returning to coaching.

Scott McCurley, Assistant Linebackers Coach, started his coaching career as a graduate assistant and came to the Packers as a coaching administrator intern in 2006.

Dom Capers, Defensive Coordinator, has 30 years of NFL coaching experience, yet his playing resume is limited to playing at Division III School, Mount Union College.

Winston Moss, who coaches the linebackers as well as acts as Associate Head Coach played in 155 NFL games.

The offensive coaches are the exact opposite, with nearly every coach having NFL playing experience.

Quarterbacks and Wide Receivers Coach, Alex Van Pelt, had a nine year NFL career after being a 4 year starter at University of Pittsburgh.

Mike Solari, Assistant Offensive Line Coach, played college at San Diego State and has no NFL experience.

Luke Getsy, Offensive Quality Control Coach, played college ball at Akron, and had a short stint with the San Francisco 49ers. Getsy got into coaching as a graduate assistant at Akron. His current job is his first within the NFL.

Sam Gash, Running Backs Coach, played fullback for 13 year in the NFL and stated coaching in 2006, two years removed from his playing days.

Jerry Fontenot, the Tight Ends Coach, is a 16 year NFL veteran.

James Campen, Offensive Line Coach, played 61 games for the Packers. He was away from the league for 10 years between his playing and coaching days.

Edgar Bennett, Offensive Coordinator, was drafted by the Packers in 1992, after a solid college career at Florida State. He joined the Packers coaching ranks in 2001 as Director of Player Development and has been working his way up through the offensive coaching ranks since.

Tom Clements, Associate Head Coach/Offense, led Notre Dame to a National Championship during his three years as starting quarterback. Clements spent most of his playing time in the Canadian Football League, outside of a short stint with the Kansas City Chiefs as their third string QB.

It’s an interesting side note that most of the defensive coaches, seemed to follow the same path. College to college assistant, to coach, to the Packers, whereas the offensive coaches have more playing experience. Do offensive coaches need the playing experience to coach? Is defense something easier learned through film, while offense you need to have lived through?

But what about the man who calls all the shots? Mike McCarthy, the quarterback guru, the offensive head of the Packers? Head Coach Mike McCarthy played tight end at Baker University, which is an NAIA school. Like many in his coaching staff, McCarthy went straight from college playing days to assisting, as a graduate assistant at Fort Hays State, a Division II school. McCarthy then worked his ways up within coaching in college and the NFL.

Are James Campen and Darren Perry better coaches than Mike McCarthy and Joe Whitt, because they had NFL playing careers? Are Capers and McCarthy bad coaches because even when they did play college ball it was at the lower levels of the game? How much does playing matter when coaching?

Perhaps the only person that knows if their playing affects their coaching is each coach themselves. Perhaps each of the coaches listed brings their own knowledge and skills to the position and for some people that is their playing days, for some people it is their coaching days, and for some people it’s the sum total of all their other experiences.

So as the Packers take the field as training camp starts, know they’re coached by men from a myriad of backgrounds. And also know that the NFL tries every year to expand on types of people who get to gain coaching experience in an effort to diversify and better their coaching staffs, so that the myriad of backgrounds and knowledge can grow. Jen Welter is an example of that. There were many minority interns before her and hopefully there will be more women interns, and coaches, after her. 

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Comments (15)

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D.D.Driver's picture

July 29, 2015 at 09:30 am

Packer coaches without NFL playing experience: Vince Lombardi, Mike Holmgren, and Mike McCarthy.

Packer coaches with NFL playing experience: Bart Start, Forrest Gregg, and Ray Rhodes.

I don't know how anyone can argue that NFL playing experience confers any significant advantage in coaching.

Also, not to go Super Feminist on everyone but...with all the terrible coaches in the NFL it is impossible for me to believe that Ms. Welter would not be better than some male coaches that currently have jobs.

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DraftHobbyist's picture

July 31, 2015 at 06:47 am

"Also, not to go Super Feminist on everyone but...with all the terrible coaches in the NFL it is impossible for me to believe that Ms. Welter would not be better than some male coaches that currently have jobs."

Nothing about that stance is Feminist.

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DraftHobbyist's picture

July 29, 2015 at 08:21 am

Well, as many of you know, I'm a Men's Rights Activist (MRA). One thing many of you may not know is that I want more women in sports, especially the NFL, and I believe that women will play in the NFL some day. Actually, the reason I got into soccer was because of the USWNT back in the 90's, but I have my criticisms of women's soccer (banning men from officiating), just as I criticize the NFL for this minority program as it is patently sexist against men and racist against Whites.

I'm a big believer in equality, but this intern program gives extra resources to non-males and non-Whites because of a bad strategy for equality. We should look at individuals having an equal opportunity, not be looking at groups. If a White male is more qualified than a woman or a racial minority, why should that White male be passed on for a job or internship? Why should that White male not be allowed into an intern program because he is White? I cannot get behind such racism and sexism.

I agree with many of Jayme's points, though. A coach doesn't need to have high level football play in order to be successful. That kind of thinking it ridiculous. In fact, people who come from outside of the NFL circles will often be extremely innovative because they think differently. Having said that, I still cannot get behind a program that bans Whites for nothing other than their race and males for nothing other than their sex. That is morally and ethically wrong.

In e-sports, there is a game called Starcraft 2. There were multiple tournaments for just women to try and get females in, and there was a monetary pot. There were "showmatches" that gave money as well. All this did was hurt Starcraft 2 because the money was put towards these women that never became pros while other actually professional males had to drop out of tournaments because they couldn't afford travel costs.

For people who don't connect with the gaming part and like politics, I urge you to look up "Thomas Sowell Wage Gap" on Youtube. He talks about how women (and minorities) got paid less as a group, but there were reasons for that, and if you look at an individual woman and man with the same qualifications, women got paid at least as much or more than men. Many people today think that women make 83 cents to every man's dollar and while that is true (or whatever the number is now as it is getting to be less and less), on the individual level, women are making over $1.10 to every man's dollar if they are equally qualified and work just as much.

Today, men and boys are losing in education. They are now starting to graduate every level of education at a lower rate, they get into college at a lower rate, etc. But the education system has the same sexist policy that this internship has, but the special programs for females has not gone away. There are still extra programs to help females write essays, get money for college, etc. So when will this anti-male, anti-White internship program be taken away?

Honestly, I could go on and on about how societies overcompensate, how this internship program is morally and ethically wrong, how prioritizing women over men and minorities over Whites actually puts women and minorities in places where they will more likely fail, etc., but this is getting long already so I'll stop here. If anybody wants to respond I have plenty more to say on the topic.

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TarynsEyes's picture

July 29, 2015 at 10:41 am

GEE-ZUS

As Spencer Tracy opened with his monologue in Guess Who's Coming To Dinner in regard to his daughter marrying a black man,Sydney Portier,he says,"Many things have been said today....but there is one in which I will take issue with..."for me,at least from this rant is this item.

"and I believe that women will play in the NFL some day. "

This IMO would have more credibility as becoming true 'if' the mentioning the NFL undertaking a huge change in play,like eliminating all contact.Women will never be able to compete in the savagery of the game as we are often reminded of it being so,and no matter how many women can dead lift extreme weight in body building or play football in their lingerie(women vs women) etc,women will never be able to sustain much less inflict the constant barrage needed to play with men for a games duration much less survive a whole season..unless the game is being played via a Hollywood movie or a video game which appears to have become the thinking of 'it's real'.

The True Detective show this season had the female cop say...I being a woman and working in a profession where men,good and bad, can physically kill me needing only their bare hands.....She carries many knives on her person and adds....any man that touches me in anger will bleed out in under a minute...no knives allowed in football,sorry.

The woman being hired as a coach at an intern level isn't an issue nor would it be at any time as a permanent coach in the NFL whether playing the game or not being on her resume',but let's not lose grip on reality,women will never be able to match the physical demands of men in this arena called the NFL in real game time action as a player.

I'm also sure that Ronda Rousey can kick the arse of many a male in a fight outside the arena,as long as there's a time limit in which she can make him submit,but the longer it takes,the chances diminish greatly of victory....reality.

Ronda Rousey(135 lbs) vs Conner McGregor(145 lbs) with him matching her weight...not even close.

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ray nichkee's picture

July 29, 2015 at 12:10 pm

You could have said that shit in three sentences.....why dont you?

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TarynsEyes's picture

July 29, 2015 at 12:34 pm

So the person I reply to is allowed to write a novel and I should limit myself to a couple of sentences.

Why go out of your way to be an arse like another does.

Lets play....Shouldn't you be trying to find a station on your AM radio.

What is the point in this level of retort.....SMH

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ray nichkee's picture

July 29, 2015 at 02:26 pm

You dont get it. 99% (just an estimate, not fact) of the followers on this is site are male football fans on this site. They are comfortable watching the game in their underwear, drinking beer and belching and farting. They dont give a rats ass about your poetry and prose.

You went after me with a smart ass question so i chose to do the same thing. Its not any kind of attack or retort, just pointing out the obvious.

Why must you judge someone on their preference of technology or how they choose to spend money on luxury? Answer or ignore, we all have the choice. Put that useless book down that makes your butt fat and get a grip on life.

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DraftHobbyist's picture

July 29, 2015 at 12:14 pm

I don't deny that on average men are physically stronger, but at the same time, how much contact does a kicker in the NFL receive? Not much. Martin Gramatica was 5'8" and 170 lbs, which is not a weight that uncommon for women.

As for women playing football in lingerie, I often hear arguments like this. The fact is that most football leagues outside of the NFL fail. Even leagues like NFL Europe and the XFL failed. The lingerie aspect adds sex appeal to help sell tickets.

One thing people don't want to admit about women's leagues is they are putting an inferior product on the field. The whole purpose of a women's league is because women can't compete, in general, with men in sports. Men's teams would crush women's teams. In fact, many women's soccer teams even get crushed by U-18 men's soccer teams. If women were as good at a sport as men, segregation wouldn't be necessary. So in order to pull people in to sell tickets for a product that is lesser, something else needs to be sold. In the lingerie league that's sex appeal. Colleges use college loyalty/pride to be successful.

Having said all this, the fact that men as a whole are better at sports than women as a whole does not mean an individual woman will never be able to rise up and play with the men, especially in the lower contact positions, and no TV show is going to change that.

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Evan's picture

July 29, 2015 at 08:42 am

While I'd think NFL playing experience would help a coach relate to his players - beyond the Xs and Os, the coach knows firsthand the rigors and demands of being an NFL player, he's lived it, and I think there is benefit to that - there is certainly no direct connection between playing in the NFL and coaching success/ability.

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DraftHobbyist's picture

July 31, 2015 at 06:42 am

Another thing is variety. Men and women are different, so if coaches are both men and women it would theoretically be possible to take the advantages of both the men's advantages as well as the women's advantages while simultaneously limiting the disadvantages of both sexes.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

July 29, 2015 at 08:44 am

Bill Belichick?

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Allan Murphy's picture

July 29, 2015 at 11:36 am

Chilax

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ray nichkee's picture

July 29, 2015 at 02:42 pm

Buurruup. (Taking another swill)

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J0hn Denver's Gavel's picture

July 29, 2015 at 05:03 pm

Mr Allan Murphy, I was hoping you'd say that!

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

July 29, 2015 at 10:06 pm

Those who can, do, those who can't, teach. Fine. Those who can play can't necessarily teach well.

I don't think the essence of sports depends on the level of play. One battles one's own self in sports. Is the pressure one feels to succeed in high school sports any (or that much) less than the pressure a player feels in the Super Bowl? For the punter or field goal kicker who shanks one in the Super Bowl, much of the world might know it. In high school, much of MY world would have known it. IDK, since I never had more than perhaps 100 people actually watch me play in a pressure packed situation. It might well be different if 50,000 people were watching, and millions more on TV: I wouldn't know, not having that frame of reference. In my particular sports (golf and tennis) I had to also devise my own strategy - whether to try to reach the green in two on a par 5 or lay up; in tennis whether to go for the big serve or kick one in. No coaching was allowed during each set in tennis.

I don't see why a woman coach can't teach the fundamentals as well as a man.

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