After Further Review: Packers vs. Lions

Ross will provide a few observations every Monday afternoon following a Packers game based on a few viewings of the condensed version of the game on NFL GamePass.  While this might not be the All-22 camera deep dive that might be more "educational", it should provide a conversation point for the rest of the week.

The defense is going to be fine if it gets healthy.  Ladarius Gunter really played well on Sunday and looks capable of prioviding the depth the Packers so desperately need in the secondary.  Gunter provides the second string outside corner that the Packers need, but it's clear that they need their long-cover man (Sam Shields) back to play the kind of defense that they want to play.  Capers' scheme likes to stick to Cover 3 and Cover 1 principles, so at least one of the outside cornerbacks needs to be able to hold up.  

Damarious Randall is going to be a very good player, but he needs to be in a "playmaker" role, not a "shut-down" role.  He's not ready for that yet.  He is (obviously) already capable of making plays consistently.  Gunter is a player whose lack of long speed requires safety help, and until Randall can hold up deep he needs deep help as well.  The Packers need to get Shields back.

Once the secondary (once thought to be the strength of the team) gets Burnett and Shields back, they can return to the level of play that was expected of them and team up with a front seven that has developed into a fearsome group.  

JC Tretter is a very good player, and a tremendous athlete for his size.  I really think Tretter needs to be part of the long term plan for the Packers.  I know that David Bakhtiari just got paid a heaping helping of dough to continue on as Green Bay's left tackle, but Tretter needs to be part of the future.  His versatility and athleticism make him a starter-quality player at seeminlgy every position on the offensive line.  That can't be discounted.  Tretter consistently made plays on the second level of the defense on Sunday and allowed Eddie Lacy to succeed, despite just 17 carries.

No one is talking about Josh Sitton being gone because Lane Taylor is playing just fine, and playing for almost nothing money-wise.

This was not a great game for Micah Hyde.  I really prefer Hyde as a slot defender or a hybrid linebacker.  He struggles pretty consistently when asked to play deep safety.  He and Dmaarious Randall were certainly not on the same page.

Kyler Fackrell might be a pretty good player.

I do think this was more than just a good game against a bad defense.  I certanly admit that not only are the Lions a bad defense on paper, but they came in to Lambeau Field almost as beat up in important positions as Green Bay was.  There is no question that the Lions' defense on Sunday was a weak one.  

With that said, what Green Bay's offense did (before it got up by 28 points and threw the game on cruise control) was not only impressive as a singular event, but important for the rest of the season as well. R The Packers did the things that they needed to do to diversify and give the opposing defense different looks than it did (successfully) in 2014 and (unsucessfully) in 2015.  Rodgers running the Packers offense under McCarthy's principles is certainly something that works, but adjustments need to be made, and they were on Sunday.

Who Rodgers does and does not trust is a real thing, and things happened on Sunday that did not help.  Part of the problem with the Packers offense in the first two weeks was the insistence of Aaron Rodgers to throw to Nelson, Cobb, Adams and Rodgers.  Those are the 4 players that he threw the ball to the last time that he won NFL MVP.  Those are the players that he trusts.

Ted Thompson, however, has been diligent in continuing to add weapons to Rodgers' arsenal.  Since 2014, Thompson has added not just Adams, but Jared Abbrederis, Jeff Janis, Trevor Davis and Jared Cook as well.  This game was not a banner day for those players.  Abby, Janis and Montgomery only made it on the field for 7 offensive plays.  Trevor Davis had 12 snaps but he had what coudl have been a costly drop on a play action pass in the fourth quarter.  Cook got injured on a perfect Rodgers throw that bounced off of his shoulder pad.  Those players need to make plays to build a relationship with QB1.

Mike Daniels is a monster.

Nick Perry is repeatedly flashing.  Perry's 3.5 sacks are certainly the headline for the young edge rusher, but he jumps off the screen on run defense.  As a bigger 3-4 outside linebacker he consistently causes problems for both tight ends lined up over him and tackles trying to "reach" him.  His ability to set the edge is forcing teams to run the ball up the middle into the teeth of a young and talented Packers run defense.

 

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Ross Uglem is a staff writer for Cheesehead TV. He can be found on Twitter @RossUglem 

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Comments (35)

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KenEllis's picture

September 26, 2016 at 04:10 pm

Encouraging to hear all the confidence in the D.

The front 7, as banged us as they've been, have played outstanding football.

he DBacks will hopefully progress as you believe they can.

As for the O, lots of optimism here as well and it was certainly great to see Aaron back to his old great ways.

However, the most important part of your analysis of the O was your statement:

"I certainly admit that not only are the Lions a bad defense on paper, but they came in to Lambeau Field almost as beat up in important positions as Green Bay was. There is no question that the Lions' defense on Sunday was a weak one."

That was a bad, bad defense playing without its 2 best front 7 players. The O needs to show it can produce against average Defenses and then maybe we can hope for success against the Vikes, Seahawks, and (maybe in the Super Bowl) Broncos, etc.

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Savage57's picture

September 27, 2016 at 08:23 am

The sooner the Packers, and as a result, AR, put all this 'trust' and 'relationship' nonsense in the rear-view mirror, the sooner the team will gain a some consistent productivity from the offense.

You have a scheme that is universally considered by opposing defenses in the league as simple and easy to defend, and you make it more so by limiting the player options because they're not in QB1's Circle of Trust.

I hear of no other so-called elite QB's in the league quacking and deflecting as much as the Packers guy does.

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Big_Mel_75's picture

September 27, 2016 at 08:49 am

Remember a couple years ago when Rodgers would have thrown to 9-10 different players? Now it is three or 4.... How the mighty have fallen...

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Point-Packer's picture

September 26, 2016 at 04:48 pm

- Been waiting for years to see what we are seeing from Perry this year. He's been great, totally agree with the praise above.

- I'm sure he makes mistakes that I don't see, but Blake Martinez just looks like a football player and a guy you can see blossoming into an all pro at ILB.

- Is it just me, or does Jake Ryan look faster and bigger?

- Can we please get Abby and/or Monty out there every once and awhile. For the love of god Missionary Mike.

- Randall is not a #1 CB. Yet.

- Mike Daniels is a man beast.

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ray nichkee's picture

September 26, 2016 at 05:13 pm

Great comment if you take out missionary mike. Are you starting to lighten up or are you still an assbag?

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Point-Packer's picture

September 26, 2016 at 06:58 pm

Still an assbag.

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RCPackerFan's picture

September 26, 2016 at 10:06 pm

I agree on most points.

Perry has been great. He has flashed in the past, but finally is healthy and is showing what he can do.

Martinez has really looked good. His speed and range have been really good.
As has Thomas and Ryan. I thought the same thing with Ryan. That he looks bigger and faster.

I really don't get why Abbrederis hasn't seen more playing time. All preseason he made plays and earned high praise from Rodgers, yet he had barely played.
McCarthy did a better job mixing and matching personnel this week, but I hope he does more moving forward.

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Tundraboy's picture

September 26, 2016 at 11:08 pm

Abby not playing is bizarre. Curse of playing well. MM goes exclusively with Adams. Same with Ty. Ridiculous. Janis wont play til Jan at this rate.

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NickPerry's picture

September 27, 2016 at 07:27 am

What's mind blowing is Ian Rappaport even mentioned the Packers were going to use Buys like Montgomery and Davis and you'd think that would have included Abby. Rodgers threw to Cobb once that I can remember for 33 yards. For as much praise as AR and MM gave to Abby in TC, you'd think he'd see more than ST snaps.

Side note...I was happy with Adams on Sunday. Did he have a drop? I didn't think he did but may be wrong.

Thank you for the week 4 Bye.

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RCPackerFan's picture

September 27, 2016 at 08:03 am

I saw that Rappaport report and watched him on NFL network. So that made me more excited to hear they recognized they had to get more speed on the field.

Adams had a very good game. 2 targets, 2 catches and both catches were big moments in the game. The first was for a TD, the last was on the 1st and 10 after the Lions used 2 of their timeouts. He catches it for 9 yards setting up 2nd and 1 which essentially sealed the game.

Adams played a lot less snaps in this game. In the first 2 games he played like 80%+ of the offensive snaps. In this game he played like 40% giver take. Much better.

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RCPackerFan's picture

September 27, 2016 at 07:52 am

It is just weird to me. I know Abbrederis is mostly a slot WR, but can't they put him and Cobb in the slots together?

I am hoping we start seeing a lot more of all of our WR's. They took a step in the right direction Sunday. hopefully they keep going that way.

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ray nichkee's picture

September 26, 2016 at 05:11 pm

Totally agree.

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SpudRapids's picture

September 26, 2016 at 05:19 pm

"I really prefer Hyde as a slot defender or a hybrid linebacker. He struggles pretty consistently when asked to play deep safety. He and Dmaarious Randall were certainly not on the same page."

My opinion is that Burnett is the QB of the secondary and is heavily responsible for communication on the back end. When he is out the play of Clinton-Dix drops off the map... when he is going to make a play this season? Maybe not until Burnett is back.

TT has really cultivated some front 7 talent. Outside of Peppers there are a lot of home growns. I said it once but I'll say it again... we all need to apologize to him on being so harsh on the MLB position. I think we are setup for years to come.

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KenEllis's picture

September 26, 2016 at 06:22 pm

Agree we need to acknowledge that TT has apparently stocked the ILBer position for 2016. What is there not to like about Martinez? Ryan looks so, so much better than last year. Of course, Joe Thomas may have made even greater strides than Ryan. Lots of room for optimism.

As for the apology, sure TT will get one ... right after he issues his apologies for DJ Smith, Brad Jones, Jamari Lattimore, Nate Palmer, and AJ Hawk at the position between 2012-15. What a collection of yuck and in Jones and Hawk's case vastly overpaid yuck.

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Tundraboy's picture

September 26, 2016 at 11:11 pm

Collection of yuck is right. Dont forget Worthy, Thornton....

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Oppy's picture

September 26, 2016 at 11:55 pm

Martinez has plenty of instinct and doesn't take false steps, but his tackling needs to drastically improve. I think he is a good LB, but people talking about all pro is silly at this point. I think a year in an offseason training program and a full course of OTAs and another training camp, his tackling will be much improved.

I was completely off on my take of Jake Ryan last season- I didn't think he was anything more than a stop gap player- but so far this season, Ryan is the most impressive LB on the field save Nick Perry. It looks like the defense has sunk in and he's out there 100% go and reacting instead of thinking. Very good play from Ryan.

Thomas has been quite good too. Really impressive output from all three of the ILBs as a group. What a turn around at a position a year can make.

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4thand1's picture

September 26, 2016 at 05:56 pm

Hmmm, Packers win, AR lights em up, and cow vanishes. PRICELESS!

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EdsLaces's picture

September 26, 2016 at 06:27 pm

Mike D. And Nick Perry are the best players on our defense right now .....50% of that comment is just so weird to say....

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GVPacker's picture

September 26, 2016 at 07:13 pm

Mike Daniels is a Total Beast!

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DrealynWilliams's picture

September 26, 2016 at 07:48 pm

Spot on with the statements about Randall. You have to either give him some help or stop putting him in read and react situations.

4th Quarter - 3rd & 8 - Zone

Why is he even worried about the RB?!

4th Quarter - 2nd & 20 - Zone

Play the down & distance. I'm sure Dom was thinking the worst case scenario should be 3rd and 12 or 10.

4th Quarter - the last score

*face palm*

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Oppy's picture

September 27, 2016 at 12:17 am

This is the one place where fans that continually gripe about MM's "arrogance" are close to being on to something. I'd refer to it as philosophical stubborness, but whatever.

The packers simply demand that the next man up do the job of the man they are replacing, no excuses, because they want to execute the full defense (or offense) and not be hamstrung by having to supply extra help.

It's a tall order and it's not always realistic, but I guess the idea is that if you don't set the expectation high, and send the message that backups will get help, you're not pushing your players to be their best.

It definitely bites us in the ass from time to time, whether it is a backup OL having to protect Rodgers' blindside in a pinch, or a 3rd string CB forced into man covering the opponents best WR with no safety net.

For better or for worse, the Packers don't coddle back ups unless it's absolutely necessary, and they are sometimes too late to admit it's necessary. They simply value the philosophy and depth of their packages too much to cut it down to help a guy out most of the time.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

September 27, 2016 at 01:04 am

I agree with you, Oppy. The exception is when they are covering their ass. Lane Taylor has been getting help in pass pro, which in his case is the correct decision.

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croatpackfan's picture

September 27, 2016 at 07:04 am

I just read article from Bob McGinn
http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/mcginn/2016/09/26/mc...
and I found that I saw game correctly. There was no help for Lane Taylor at all for the whole game. Left side (LT+LG) of the OL was very, very good, especially in comparison with C and right side...
Can you explain me that help, please?

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

September 27, 2016 at 09:19 pm

No Ansah, so Taylor did not need help against Detroit. Read McGinnś rating the packers for MN, where McGinn wrote that GB gave help to Taylor on 55% of our pass attempts. No way would GB have given Sitton any help against MN. Taylor is an about average OG - there is nothing terribly wrong with him. My real problem is if anything happens to Lang, you are looking at Taylor and Barclay at OG.

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DrealynWilliams's picture

September 28, 2016 at 04:25 pm

Hey @Croat, how did you feel about that TD pass to Nelson in the 2nd Quarter?

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DrealynWilliams's picture

September 27, 2016 at 02:39 am

"I'd refer to it as philosophical stubbornness, but whatever."

Yea, I agree. But at what point does it go beyond stubbornness?

I'm all for finding out what a player is made of by putting him in tough positions and not scrapping your game strategy over a non-QB, but if it happens again and again.....and again....and again - shouldn't we have a clear understanding of that player's weakness(es) and offer some kind of assistance from time to time?

I bet we won't see as much Single High against the Giants as we've seen in previous games. Gotta help the young guy(s) out a bit.

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Colin_C's picture

September 26, 2016 at 07:45 pm

Great comments Ross.
I agree about Shields, and that's what worries me. If he goes down late in the year, what then? Hopefully our other guys will be improved enough to take over in that situation. Rollins has only been playing ball for a few years, and Randall is a converted safety, so it makes sense they're still raw. Would be nice to have another vet though. As much as I hate to say it, they may need Goodson.

In my humble opinion, 76 is our best guy out there on defense. I'm proud of the entire front 7 though. They're playing lights out every down!

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RobinsonDavis's picture

September 26, 2016 at 07:54 pm

Just want to thank you, Ross, Al, and Jason. I missed much of the televised part of the game due to travel. Thank god for our great radio announcers....really appeciate their insights.

I wish to acknowledge and thank you for the shout to Mike Daniels. His play has been awesome, but probably does not show up on the stat sheet for as destructive as he has been to opposing o-lines.

Regarding Tretter, I thought he stuggled against Minnesota, but concerning who was lined-up across from him many times (Joseph), he did OK. I really liked his play on Rodgers TD run during that game. I think Tretter's feet lead better to him playing guard, but appreciate any take you and others have. Agree with you he is a must sign, but feel TJ is too.

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Bedrock's picture

September 26, 2016 at 09:07 pm

I think Perry's shoe-string tackle on pass defense shows a bigger glimpse of how he's starting to get it. He's always had power enough to bull rush and set the edge, baring injuries.

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Lphill's picture

September 26, 2016 at 09:53 pm

People who continue to bash AJ Hawk prove they don't know football , Hawk is the all time leader in tackles for the Packers and led the team 5 years in tackles including the SuperBowl year , Hawks responsibility was to take on blockers to fee up the other inside linebacker to make plays , yet while doing this he still was making his tackles. He was a solid linebacker that also played in a different defense at Ohio state and had to adjust to his role He did a good job. .

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Oppy's picture

September 27, 2016 at 12:04 am

I'm on record over the years on this. I concur. AJ Hawk took on a thankless job for Dom Capers' defense, did it well, and never once complained about it.

More over, for all the fans who were ignorant of his job duties, and said things like "Yeah, he gets tackles from behind the ball carrier 5 yards past the LOS", he never once spoke up and explained the reason why he was making all those tackles from behind, was because his job was to stand up a guard or FB and allow the other LB to make the play on the ball carrier.. But when the other LB missed the play, he'd have to disengage and chase down the play from behind to make the tackle.

Hawk wasn't an all pro, but for a guy drafted to play weak side LB in a 4-3, he sure stepped up and did a solid job for near a decade playing jack backer in a 3-4 for a fan base that didn't generally appreciate or understand his role.

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dobber's picture

September 27, 2016 at 08:09 am

^^THIS^^

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Oppy's picture

September 27, 2016 at 12:09 am

With all the hoopla about Randall struggling as a #1 or how Randall will become a good starter in time, what's getting lost is Quentin Rollins hasn't really been picked on too much as the other starting CB.

I know Gunter has taken some of those snaps as well (and done fairly well), but in general, this is a great sign for the secondary once Shields comes back on board, with everyone's assignment 'shifting down' a notch (in theory).

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

September 27, 2016 at 01:47 am

I'm a big fan of Rollins: I've even gone so far as to suggest that he will be better than Randall. I have to mention though that Rollins got torched (and benched) against Jacksonville, was just okay against MN and Detroit. Gunter also had a bad game against Jacksonville, but has looked more adequate since then. These experiences may help our players down the road, and I do agree that the return of Shields would help due to his own play and the shifting down a notch theory.

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sheppercheeser's picture

September 27, 2016 at 04:58 am

We are so spoiled as Packer fans. Yes, I was one of the many that had many complaints after the win against Detroit, but imagine how it feels to be a Bears fan! Zero wins, zero confidence and a team in disarray. But yeah, I'll still complain when MM plays "not to lose" and keeps Abby on the bench.

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