The Bills managed to fire their OC mid-season, there is little reason to think GB couldn’t shitcan Barry. Although to be fair, the Bills think they can still salvage their season.

The boss in any organization is responsible for the performance of his staff.

When he fails to address shortfalls, he puts himself at risk.

That's the part of this which is most confusing because LaFleur seems smarter than that.

MLF just showed is ignorance when it comes to the defensive calls. He was up there defending barry and blaming the players for not stopping the run. This guy has no business being a HC.

I look forward to this piece by Al every week. I was one of several people who followed Al over to CHTV when he merged with Cory and Nags (I think that's how it went) form his Packers site. But I have to say this is the not the cheery try to put a positive twist on the Packers article from Al. THIS is just depressing. But then again, SO are the Packers...Depressing!

Matt LaFleur... Sorry, I'm no longer on board with anything MLF says. He can call that garbage Barry lines up anything he wants. He can justify it anyway he wants. He can TRY and suggest, LaFleur and the other "Professionals" know what is REALLY going on. But to THIS armchair Coach and GM, THIS version of Defense isn't really Defense at all. It's like a spaghetti strainer, it ain't holding water and it leaks EVERYWHERE because of it's DESIGN! What a putz!

"He might be a little too in love with and anxious to use his speed to win. I would work with him on fundamentals, the first of which is completing each aspect of his routes correctly."

Well shit, maybe he's a little in love with his speed because that's ALL he has. He can't run routes well. Can't/doesn't fight for the ball. He couldn't find a hole in a zone if it was the size of half the field. AND, he can't catch the ball very well.

I think he could be coached up but here lies the problem, that word "Coached". Watson isn't going to get the coaching he really needs from this staff. My concerns now are not with what the Packers do for the rest of this season, but WHAT are the Packers going to do NEXT season. Bringing back MLF and this staff is just going to screw up MORE drafts picks with bad coaching.

I don't really care how MLF defines his defense or what he calls his pass rushers when they are in nickel. The bottom line is that whatever he calls it, it's not working. The Packers are giving up first downs and TDs and are terrible against the run and it's not working. Why are we in nickel in this short yardage situations?

As for Watson where is the receivers coach? Shouldn't he be helping Watson with his route running and with tracking the ball? What are the coaches doing on this team? Where are the fundamentals? Thanks, Since '61

Great points Al and good conversations as well with the posters.

I am glad the 2 lineman issue was discussed and we can now see that part of Barry's issue is with LaFleur as well even though we knew that since he was HC, he was part of the defensive issues.

RE: Watson, he still needs time to grow, or at least I hope so, along with better coaching? I know we need to draft OL in the next draft and rather high I might add. I also believe a stud DL is important as well. However, even though we seem to have some very good WR's, we might want to add that superstar stud receiver if available.

Some advocate a redo on the FO. I am not at that point yet but do believe we are in need of major changes to the coaching staff.

We can discuss semantics, terminology and professional football knowledge. Or we can discuss whether the team is effective at stopping the run. It isn't. Now, how do the coaches fix the problem? That is what is important. As the old saying goes, "Fix the problem, not the blame."

Matt LaFleur is making me miss Dan Devine.

"Would you want a back blocking him, you idiot?"

Of course not, the back's busy with the ball and running between the real tackles spread 3 yards apart, outside of the guards.

I think Watson will come along eventually. It's taking longer than it should because he doesn't seem to have anyone helping him or making him want to. They're supposed to acquire and pay a veteran FA WR to mentor him instead of having the coaches do it??? Remember last season too, he didn't really get started till the Dallas game.

The problem's not Murphy or Gute. We've been off the mark. Berry and Lafleur have to be next door neighbors. Their WIVES are best friends together in the Womens Church Social. Who else do you think could really be calling the shots?

LeFleur was a bit quick to jump on that question like he knew it was coming and had to have an explanation. Hey Matt - Buuuuuullllllshhhhiiittt. But you keep going with what works for you.

Al once again a good honest assessment of this team. As for D as stated many times above Berry needs to go period. Let's see what this D can do without their hands tied behind their backs. On offense Watson needs to be dropped to 4th or 5th WR. Doubs, Reed, and Wicks have shown they play better in all aspects.

“ I say "defensive linemen" to distinguish between the 300 lb run stuffers and 250 lb pass rushers.”

Al, Al, Al, if you were a “professional”, you would know that any DB that lines up at the line of scrimmage is by definition a “defensive lineman”. Duh. And they have about the same chance of stopping a run up the middle as the OLBs.

LaFleur--

The "us in this profession" comment means we're moving toward the defensive position we saw with "I'm a successful football coach." It's good to see some angst and some bite-back in him like we've seen recently. It means people are putting some pressure on him, and pressure leads to change. If it doesn't, then change will be imposed on the situation.

There were some good things to take from Sunday's game, and it's clear that the coaching staff hasn't lost the team. That's a vital piece and that's what's going to keep things moving forward. At this stage, I don't want a lost season, and a checked out locker room will lead to that. Losing and tanking basically makes this a lost season and sets the clock back by at least a year on a rebuild.

"Watson....Musgrave"

We've been saying around here for awhile that the 2023 Watson isn't being used well based on what the 2022 Watson really excelled at. Some are saying Watson needs an ARod--based on the catch-and-go kind of stuff Watson ran a year ago, that shouldn't be true. It might also be that the umbrella/shell defenses the Packers are seeing are limiting Watson's use in that way. Whatever the case, the game plan has to be about the same for this younger developing WR as it is for a younger developing QB: get him some gimmes and put him in a position to produce and build confidence. It's still on-the-job training at this point which is frustrating given that people expected more.

Encouraged to see Musgrave getting more attempts downfield. This Packers offense needs that, and it helps to move LBs and Ss, and to clear the underneath stuff for Watson and others. I wish that someone who is supposed to be so athletically gifted (for a TE) actually looked like he can run without tripping over his own feet. Happy to see Kraft on the field more, but it feels like that's responding to an inconsistent OL that needs help than it is about being creative with 2-TE sets.

All of that said, this youth movement is all about assessment. It's all about finding out who can play, who they can build on, and then churning the rest. It might be that Watson is a big ol' miss, but they've seen enough of him to know he can impact games in several ways. They've also got other guys they need to assess and grow and they're showing signs that they're doing that (Wicks, Reed)....it seems foolish to go away from them.

"we have the referees and the video review team, who are evidently not able to draw a straight line between two points."

They drew a straight line...it just wasn't parallel to the LOS.

The egregious gaps in short yardage situations are making all of us crazy. Can we PLEASE add another run-stuffing DL to this roster? Clark and Slaton are all we have. (And please don’t bring up Jonathan Ford, he’s huge and HORRIBLE against the run).
It’s not just Watson. Both he and Musgrave have either been poorly coached, or are terrified of dropping a pass, because both of them turn to face the pass instead of catching over their shoulders and keeping their momentum. Thankfully, Reed isn’t afraid to keep running.

Interesting numbers from 3-4-4 base to the nickel.
Especially the numbers with 1 yard to go.
In 2010
Raji weighed 337. Pickett weighed 340. Jenkins 305 / Sub-Green 340.
What was wrong with CM3, Hawk, Bishop, Zombo ?
The GM changed that. Even Reggie White weighed 300.(4-3-4)
This team doesn’t look anything like that. And never will.
It’s too light. Period. The OL there facing are 310 up.
And with Rookies on the line, change the base. Per that 1 yard!!
Walker was drafted for a reason. That also showed up.

Watson -
Most here knew I loved Watson, and I knew he needed a Vet QB.
You suggest Wr Coach . I suggest he doesn’t come back for the ball.
Something Rodgers complained about constantly.
You're not wrong per coaching. But give me Wicks over Dobbs.
As long as Watson gets double teamed. Someone is open.

When I watched Matt LaFleur "school" the press on OLBers standing outside the tackles constituting 4 down linemen it thought back Mike McCarthy prefacing one of his answers with the "polluted mindset" phrase. Matt would be a better coach in this league if he stayed an OC and drew up fancy plays for a living. He is in over his head and he has surrounded himself with the only coaches who needed the job bad enough to stick around. Our big mistake is still to come when LaFleur is given next year to continue moulding this "young" team.

Lefluer was being a total dick when asked about 2 down lineman, he’s lost and he’s lost this team .

What to do about Watson -
I agree about having Wicks go for jump balls. He can get up for the ball.
One of the biggest problems with Watson has a number of the deep balls to him have been short. including the one that got tipped and intercepted. The ball needed to be placed farther back in the endzone. It wasn't a horrible throw and the CB made a tremendous play. But if he has it 1 more yard its in a spot that only Watson can get to it.
I just saw something that showed that Watson draws a ton of attention downfield. When he runs deep he is really opening up things for people underneath.
One thing that Watson has been great with is his blocking.

Musgrave - The budding :Love -
It is great to see Musgrave starting to get the downfield looks. He is really starting to make an impact. I want to see him continue to get the ball in stride. Most throws to him seem to be where he has to adjust and then he ends up stumbling and can't get any yac.

Blunders -
Deguara, i have no clue what he was doing on that extra point.
Jones - He had 2 huge blunders in this game. The dropped pass from Wicks that hit him in the chest, and not getting out of bounds.
Refs - don't need to draw a straight line with the one angle I saw. it perfectly showed that the ball went backwards. So I have no clue what the refs were looking at. That cost the Packers 7 points, and at the very least cost them a 1st and goal inside the 10.

"In the end, while we have plenty to complain about, we are seeing some signs of a light at the end of the tunnel. And that's about all we can expect from the 2023 Packers. Just keep moving closer to that light."

Trust me, there is plenty of complaining going on. The funny thing is most people expected a down year, a learning year, and yet are still complaining.
There is light at the end of the tunnel. Look while we have a very young offense, we have had 3 4th quarter leads. Outside of the Lions game (which we got within 10 with a full quarter left to play), we have been in every game. our offense is starting to find its way downfield more. The young WR's are starting to really turn it on. Love has looked good these last couple of games. I'm excited to see how we finish out the year.

Once AR was traded, many on this blog said we will now see what kind of HC we have. It took 10 weeks, MLF's answer to that question just might confirm it.

Always an accurate and insightful, JA! A few weeks ago, I believe it was you that said, in reference to MLF, that the bloom had fallen off the rose......again, accurate and insightful. I agreed with you then and his acerbic responses in recent press conferences seem to support that he's aware of this as well.

MLF planting his flag in the Joe Barry camp is confounding considering what everyone has seen from JB. The baffling alignments and schemes in down and distance situations have failed every time and now even the football "novice" community can reasonably question this. To dismiss these questions bc those asking are not "professional" evaluators is hubris..... at it's worst.

MLF's steadfast support of his failed coordinator has been questioned since he hired JB and then became more heightened when MLF chose to keep him on staff after seeing zero growth. It appears that JB is MLF's ride or die guy. These winding roads were ultimately going to converge and now it appears that rather than preserving his own position, he prefers to risk everything by deflecting responsibility and acknowledging the issues that others now question.

It should be an interesting next few weeks with SD, KC and DET games looming. There will be no hiding JB against these prolific offenses and could dictate if he sticks around thru the end of the year. If JB stays, MLF should expect to have even more questions from the "novice" community. How he answers/handles these questions may determine what his own future looks like with this team.

Hull is breached and taking on water!

Yes Matt, and perhaps if we named the remains of Nitschke our new DC, the players will autonomously figure it out. Honestly, I bet all of us would prefer that option at this point over Barry's scheming.

NFL players train together in the offseason...no reason why Watson couldn't seek out Davante. Seeing the Houston highlights, the camera angle didn't pan out much, but based on the numerous protection breakdowns, you could tell Houston WRs were doing a lot of comeback routes to rescue Stroud...our receivers too often operate in linear fashion and improvise poorly--lone exception might be Wicks--he seems to be in the right spot often, whether by design or improvisation.

When it's all said and done, Murph will be tagged with "we're not idiots" and now MLF has "just so you know how us professionals...." Gute better bite his tongue.

Kudos to Wilde for asking the question.

"He says people are exposing themselves when they complain about two down linemen." Projection is a very real thing, and when Matt talks long enough in unscripted language, he tells us who he is. "People expose themselves."

My hat's off to all of you who pointed out the emperor had no clothes during those 13-3 seasons; CW, Taryn, and others. Yes, I enjoyed the ride and the moments, but it is very clear that Coach LaFleur is ill-equipped to be a successful HC in the NFL.

These players deserve better than Joe Barry and Matt LaFleur.

"we are seeing some signs of a light at the end of the tunnel."...it ain't a train a coming is it? 😀

All guess, no breaks...

*Seriously, I don't expect anyone on this forum to have the answers or insight into the Packers and the happenings at 1265 Lombardi Ave. What I can tell you, is with this mixed bag of opinions and insight/observations you all share. I am a more knowledgeable fan (at least in my opinion)

Thank you all for that!

GPG

*I may be wrong but I thought Wilde, or someone else followed up Coach LaF's response with (paraphrasing), "Taush will have a field day with that response". I know Taush was an OL, but with his experience in the NFL, he may have valid insight. That, or I could be simply wrong in what I thought I heard?

Not sure the difference between OLB Smith/Gary/Van Ness who are all around 6-5 275lbs plus compared and DL Wooden 6-4 270, Brooks 6-3 290lbs. Even Wyatt is is on the lighter side being just over 300lbs. When you look at raw strength numbers there is even less differentiation between all the “down lineman”

LaFleur and Gutekunst allegedly have college degrees-'Us professionals' is painful to listen to. Both of them stumble through their native language and job assignments.

OLB = Defensive End. Full Stop. End of story. They can, and do, line up in gaps 5i to 9.

If you want to run a base 3-4 you DO NOT get to whine about an OLB dropping into coverage at times. And yes teams will scheme to try and exploit this. Put on your big boy pants and deal. And if it was a base 4-3 the same thing can happen.

Oh and if you didn't know this: ALL teams run more nickel than anything else these days. See above.

If you want to complain about the Packers lining up in Nickel in short yardage, by all means do so. But the way the question is being phrased is not accurate. Personally I believe the inaccuracy is purposeful and intended.

In the goal-to-go example the ROLB shifted to line up on the GUARD. With 25 jamming into the 5 spot. I notice the article implies that this did not happen.

We aren't who we thought we were! We let ourselves off the hook!

",,,we are seeing some signs of a light at the end of the tunnel. And that's about all we can expect from the 2023 Packers. Just keep moving closer to that light."

That's what they say right before someone dies. Are the Packers dead?

I'm not going to quibble whether people are ends or linebackers. I view it as depending on the situation, Gary and Smith can be BOTH. But if they're standing up on the end of the line their primary responsibility is to defend the edge or pass rush.

My take on the team is to stop looking at this team as an extension of the past. This team is the second year of a trend that started a year ago, namely just not good enough. We're reaching the point where 'young team' fades as an excuse. I don't really get ticked off because losing is about all you can expect now.

Two teams stick out to me now: Denver and the Texans. Both have new coaches and with the exception of C.J. Stroud have really taken off with largely the same personnel as a year ago. The difference: two coaches who can get their teams to play smart, aggressive football. I see the 49'ers who are perennial contenders and the Eagles. What's the difference: shrewd personnel development and coaching that is rock solid.

Hopefully when Murphy leaves someone with the organization will realize this is starting to smell like the 1970's and 80's all over again. Where's the next Bob Harlan?

I don't listen to LaFleurs' post game pressers any more - or should we call them "excuse-fests".

His "illusional" first 3 years were built solely on Rodgers and Adams. It masked all the weaknesses of this organization during the regular season. But when the playoffs came, LaFleur was always unmasked as a poor HC.

Fast forward to our current situation. A team with no identity. Whose defense is seemingly defenseless against the run (mostly due to strange defensive schemes which the HC endorses, until he doesn't). Young players with promise that are badly coached. Whose coaches justify poor scheming/play calling accusing young players of not executing. Truly bad leadership.

So this defense of Barry does not surprise me. But it does disappoint me greatly in what respect i still had for LaFleur. So, if fans are tuning out LaFleur, do u think it's much different for the players, deep down?

Like many realistic fans, we all knew this was the start of a rebuild/evaluation season. But who thought that the coaching and leadership would be so subpar, from top to bottom?

LaFleurs' ridiculous defense of Barry only goes to prove his total weakness as a leader. He prefers to unjustifiably protect a bad DC versus do what any competent HC would do - let him go! But alas, that's what a competent, strong HC would do...

All you need to know about Pack run defense and who's to blame is exposed by Matt Lefleur.

Clearly the guy has NOT A CLUE about short yardage or goal line defense.

What an idiot. Those comments following the game should immediately get him fired.

What a joke. The gig is up. Lefleur is the PROBLEM.

Regarding the DL point:
I could copy and paste my response to your things that make you go hmmm article yesterday - the Steelers have a TE named Darnell Washington, who at 6'7" and 265lb is essentially another T (a la Marcedes Lewis), and can bully OLB's. With 3 Tackles on the field, the Packers have no need for Nickel and needed to adjust with more beef in the middle (especially when the RT pulled inside on those 2 rushing TD's).

So in response MLF, did you not see that it WASN'T a RB opposing Gary or Smith, it was the TE\T, and YOU needed to adjust to that Jumbo package. Bad scouting and bad reaction MLF.

The "attack" response from MLF is typical when one gets embarrassed like that - it's easier to be overtly combative than to fess up and own the issue (but I guess he knows that he's run out of good will in that department).

Regarding Watson:
Yep, use that speed on crosser routes and attack the middle and hone your craft. Ask Justyn Ross (he of the 4.22 40), what's the point of having track speed with limited football IQ. They really do need a veteran receiver on that team

"Just keep moving closer to that light." -- "Light" meaning the 2024 Draft because that's all we can cheer for this season. Playoffs are not in the cards this season. Packers have a legit shot at a Top 10 draft pick; probably not a Top 5, but a Top 10 is quite possible. Just don't end the season around a .500 record.

MLF's response is disheartening to the point of wondering if he even knows the basics. As Al points out, DL means defensive lineman. 2 DL is basically giving up run yards. I do not remember which 1-to-go play it was, but Steelers went heavy with 2 TE and the packers went 2 DL and i think 6 men in the box.

What is really frustrating is that packers can play run defense when the defense has the correct personnel for playing the run.

The first time I was concerned about MLF's mental prowess was on Love's first start years ago and not being prepared for blitzes. Nothing since has suggested he is nothing more than a beneficiary of AR's ability.

Good article Al.

This was Lafleur's "I'm a highly successful head coach" moment. The end has to be near.