Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - Exhales Loudly
The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.
By JerseyAl
The Draft guide is finished (exhales loudly). The initial response has been fantastic - I am so appreciative of those of you who already ordered a copy. Your support has been amazing.
Jonesy - Look, the Packers have paid Aaron Jones well. Even with the recent contract adjustment, they're paying him a lot more than most teams would give to a running back that will turn 29 this year with over a thousand carries on those legs. And I'm not complaining about the money, I just would like the Packers to actually make better use of him. Give him more opportunities to get the ball out in space, especially as a receiver.
Thursday Blues - Maybe it's your first time planning to visit football's Mecca, Lambeau Field. Or maybe you make the pilgrimage every year, it doesn't matter. You plan your weekend visit - book your non-refundable flights, hotel stay, Lambeau Field tour, etc. Two weeks before, the NFL flexes that Sunday afternoon game to Thursday Night. You're screwed. The NFL (well, at least 22 owners) don't care about you, the fan. They care only about making the cash cow Amazon, who is paying them 1 billion per year, happy. Aaron Nagler, on Monday's Packers Daily chat put it this way: "As fans, we are just paying to be extras in the NFL's show." It's not about us anymore, and there's nothing we can do about it other than stop watching football. So yeah, there's nothing we can do about it.
Super Seconds - Now that I'm done with the draft guide (exhales loudly again), I'd be fully onboard with the Packers trading back in this draft. There are going to be some really really good players to be had in the second round. With the multiple holes the Packers have to fill, I'd rather stock up on two or three starter-level players than throw everything into one top-15 pick with no guarantees of stardom. This has also shaped my feelings about the Rodgers trade - I'd be good with getting both of the Jets' second-round picks this year or one this year, one in 2024 plus a fourth-rounder in 2024. The Jets would probably try to throw some conditions in, but I would not give in to that.
Richie Rich - I know Rich Bisaccia is now the Assistant Head Coach, but did I miss the announcement of him being made Assistant GM? Tarvarius Moore, Matt Orzech, Corey Ballentine, Rudy Ford, Keisean Nixon, Eric Wilson, Dallin Leavitt. The man gets what he wants!
Yet another plug: The CHTV Draft Guide is now available to order right here.
PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.
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"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther. Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP.
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Comments (160)
greengold
April 05, 2023 at 06:23 am
Great stuff, Al, especially on the heels of your 2023 Packers Draft Guide. And, what a great piece of work that is!
I spent the entire night reading through it, and have more nights dedicated to that in my future. That, I know! It’s a wealth of Packers specific info, and eye opening with regards to how comprehensive this draft resource is, without question.
Great, great work by you & all of your contributors.
I subscribe to a number of time tested draft resource publications, and I’ve learned quite a bit more via this CHTV offering. New to me players/info. Well done!
__
Jonesy. Agreed. I can’t wait to see him fully integrated as an important part of our scheme, as opposed to the spot duty he was relegated to in years past.
His having joined Jordan Love with our WRs for workouts in California speaks volumes on leadership and dedication to achieving team goals.
Thursday blues, agree with Nags. It is whatever they say it is. Sadly.
Super seconds? Nothing sloppy this year. I’d love a trade down for more hits, but, finding a trade partner…
Richie Rich, a Head Coach in waiting. I love the guy.
Way to Carry the G!
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 05, 2023 at 08:51 am
I too have read the 2023 Draft Guide yesterday and found it very helpful. I will review it again & again prior to the draft, and particularly following the draft to see what was said about the Packer draft choices. About these draft choices in relationship to where they were drafted compared to other draft choices by other teams.
Yes, Rich just might be a head coach of the Packers in waiting depending on this season. A phenomenal coach who the players love and play hard for him. Should LF stumble it is nice to know Rich is available & I would not be upset with the decision.
Trading back.....well, that just depends on the trade compensation, and the way the draft is falling. Until we know the answers to these two things claiming you want to fall back seems way to pre-mature. Way to pre-mature! If the Pack end up getting both the #42, and #43 to go with the #15, and the #45 I would not want to fall back from #15. Get the best 'game changer' type player available at #15. Potentially having 3 picks in round 2 without a fall back would be huge!
greengold
April 05, 2023 at 10:28 am
Hey Knock. I agree. It's too much for me to think about right now... and I'll be shocked if we don't walk away from this with the Jets #13 as well. Should be fun to see what happens.
Coach Cleve Steamer
April 07, 2023 at 08:04 am
Prepare to be shocked!
Cermit
April 05, 2023 at 10:09 am
https://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/aaron-rodgers-likes-girls#comme...
marpag1
April 05, 2023 at 06:50 am
And if a fan is coming from a distance for a single game, planned in advance, he is obviously going to try to target a "big game," which is exactly the sort of game that is most likely to be flexed. Not many people will want to spend huge money to watch the Packers dismantle the Texans.
The NFL joining hands with Amazon is like Hitler joining hands with Lucifer. I love football, but the NFL can go %$#&@ itself.
NJmike15
April 05, 2023 at 07:42 am
Very true. When our group flew into GB a few years ago, we came earlier in the season before the flex changes took affect. Now with Amazon I don't know if all games can be flexed or only after a certain date.
Coldworld
April 05, 2023 at 07:48 am
It’s later in the season, when games can currently already be flexed on Sundays.
Whiteside441
April 05, 2023 at 10:31 am
What’s wrong with Amazon ?
Coldworld
April 05, 2023 at 04:56 pm
They are pushing the Sunday to Thursday flex option.
SicSemperTyrannis
April 11, 2023 at 02:04 am
Amazon is a terrible company. I don't know when their affiliation with the NFL started though.
NickPerry
April 05, 2023 at 06:55 am
Packers Draft Guide...Outstanding as usual Al. I have a few questions about your mock draft (No Edge player until late) but all in all I wouldn't be mad if it looked like that. I'm looking forward to the weekend when I'll have more time to REALLY get into it. I've purchased the CHTV Draft Guide every year for as long as I've been coming here. If you've never purchased it I suggest you do.
Jonesy... I think THIS year is the year they really use Jones, at least more than they have in the past. Jones going out to participate with Love and others this offseason speak volumes about his leadership. Jordon Love couldn't have a better player to help with this transition. Both Dillon and Jones will be huge this season.
Thursdays... A majority of the owners haven't given a flying fuck about the fans for YEARS. Anytime they suggest they do care is just the "Salesman" in each one of them. These guys didn't get filthy rich by telling people what the DON'T want to hear. They're all master manipulators worried about one thing...MORE $$$
Seconds... I've been on board with the Jets second round picks (Both of them) since the day they traded Moore away to get the second 2nd round pick. The value in THIS draft is the 2nd round and into the 3rd. The difference between 15 and 42 (The Jets first 2nd rounder) isn't all that much. Now if Gute was able to trade up just a few spots to grab Jaxson Smith-Njigba in the 1st I wouldn't be too mad... If not, I wouldn't be opposed to trading back a few spots for more picks in the 2nd and 3rd.
Handsback
April 05, 2023 at 06:55 am
Trading down in this year’s draft will be very possible I think because of all the QBs that will be sitting there in the 1and 2nd rounds.
It seems that Green Bay needs to address several areas in their roster and maybe the more picks the better.
Just MHO
PatrickGB
April 05, 2023 at 07:50 am
I looked at many of the draft profiles. Like every year, some stand out as being drafted high. But once you get below the top 10 it seems like many of these guys look like second or third rounders. So, yes, I am in favor of getting more picks in the second round.
packerbackerjim
April 05, 2023 at 07:53 am
You must have been reading my mind, NP. Trading down (unless there is THAT player that mysteriously falls to 15) to load up on second rounders makes all the sense in the world.
JerseyAl
April 05, 2023 at 10:38 am
As for EDGE players, it was either Round 1or Day 3. I decided to go OL in Round 1.
Coach Cleve Steamer
April 07, 2023 at 08:07 am
Good take. Gutey should listen.
stockholder
April 05, 2023 at 07:10 am
I'm against trading back.
I prefer Blue chip players ,
"with that 5th option."
Let's not forget the 3rd round busts.
And how Gutey traded up for them.
He isn't TT, so don't live in the past.
And as much as it's possible.
The odds are not good on getting many 2s.
So now Hooker QB is coming in for a visit.
Think about that when you work out the
trade for Rodgers. He's rated in the 60s.
Where's the fit?
greengold
April 05, 2023 at 07:30 am
Well, Hooker’s not going to fit if we continue to fail to address R3 failures, because he’s projected to go in R3.
I like the player. Not sure about burning such a valuable pick during such a key portion of the draft on a backup QB. Seems doing that would take away from the value quotient.
stockholder, if the Packers were to land NYJ’s #13, would you trade that or the 15? Or stick with two blue chips?
I’d take the blue chips, or maybe trade one, depending on the return.
dobber
April 05, 2023 at 08:04 am
Too many people presume that a visit means they're going to burn a high pick on a guy. They have enough visits that they can smoke-screen with them, too.
For those who seem to be in love with TT and how he did things: he often used his visits for priority UDFAs and late-round guys. It is what it is.
As for 13/15, if you've got both picks (and I don;'t think they will) it would open things up dramatically. I just hope the Packers get appropriate value and don't fire-sale a #1 pick just to move down.
Johnblood27
April 05, 2023 at 08:16 am
yes Dob. Value.
remember... the Jimmy Johnson draft chart was made before there was a 5th year option on 1st rounders...
Also many things have changed in the league since way back then. Even when looking at some of the alternative draft value charts it seems as if the numbers change but the value proposition doesn't. More hand waving but no real adjustment.
Taking a new fresh look at the draft - to include realistic value assignments to draft positions over time for the past couple decades leads to a completely new way of looking at the slotting and value proposition. Keeping an adjusted scale "in-house" would have benefits.
Remember, the pre-draft process that places round values on players has been proven to be quite wrong in an uncomfortably large percentage of picks. Adjustment of draft slot value needs to be done since the player evaluation pre-draft is so subjective and IMO cannot be "fixed" into a reliable system of evaluation that pinpoints a players likelihood of success in the N-F-L.
Thegreatreynoldo
April 05, 2023 at 09:06 am
APC reports that the Packers had 30 visits last year and drafted 6 of those players. Moreover, APC noted that 6 was a high number, though that was in part due to TT interviewing a bunch of late day 3 guys.
dobber
April 05, 2023 at 11:02 am
Shhh! You're harshing my vibe with data! ;)
jannesbjornson
April 05, 2023 at 02:47 pm
I would select Hooker over the guy from Florida.
stockholder
April 05, 2023 at 03:00 pm
And I would keep Rodgers over both.
Because this isn't about winning a trade.
It's about a exchange of QBs.
jannesbjornson
April 05, 2023 at 03:32 pm
It is not about him, it is the Money . They managed to paint, glue and plaster-coat themselves into a corner. That's why they get extensions to their contracts.
Coldworld
April 05, 2023 at 07:37 am
I will hard pass on Hooker. No thank you. He’s 25, had injury issues and doesn’t have an elite arm. Needs work. Firmly in the day 3 camp on him and I think we’d find better upside from others even then.
I am for trading back as a default position. I’m curious as to how many blue chip players you see in this draft. I see maybe 8 or 9. If one falls, then obviously that would require a change of plan, but otherwise there’s a big group of 1/2 rounder types in my view. Getting an extra bite this year seems appealing if the true elites are gone as I expect them to be.,
marpag1
April 05, 2023 at 10:27 am
The Patriots are shopping Mac Jones, and team owner Bob Kraft apparently likes hookers. So I expect to see Hendon in New England, and not in Green Bay.
jannesbjornson
April 06, 2023 at 05:33 am
He was a leading candidate for the Heisman Trophy until he injured his ankle and was lost for the season. He and Levis fit the Pro quarterback profile. Who tossed the Ball to Tillman and Hyatt? I believe the blue chips run up to #12. Maybe Ringo, but he lacks burst and length.
PatrickGB
April 05, 2023 at 07:54 am
I prefer blue chip players too. Yet often they can be found later. I guess it’s all about value and future fits. If there is a stud in the first, draft him! But if not, try to get more swings at the bat.
PeteK
April 05, 2023 at 09:49 am
Yes, as an example, if I want Mayer and he's there at 15 but a few teams drafting behind me don't need a TE , I'll trade down a few spots. However, if there's a blue chip player that I want, I could use one of the Jets second round picks to move up, or if.... this gets crazy!! LOL
greengold
April 05, 2023 at 10:59 am
Exactly... We Packer fans have enough whirling around upstairs trying to make sense of what we might have to pick with from the anticipated AR trade. Adding possible draft day trades into the equation has my head spinning this morning, like a top!
Whooooah, Nellie!!!!
golfpacker1
April 05, 2023 at 08:34 pm
So you would just waste a 2nd round pick because you want to move up a few spots when the team has so many holes to fill. I'm glad you are not picking for Green Bay.
jannesbjornson
April 06, 2023 at 05:37 am
Detroit will be hunting a TE, maybe with their first selection? I will stick with Kraft.
greengold
April 06, 2023 at 06:20 am
DET and a dozen other teams will be hunting TEs. There are maybe 4 R1 rated talents at TE in this draft. The best will be gone by pick 42.
LLCHESTY
April 05, 2023 at 03:26 pm
You showed some restraint here, with just one ill-advised, ill placed comma. I'm thinking another year or so your posts will be readable.
Coach Cleve Steamer
April 07, 2023 at 08:08 am
Cheap is the new fit. What’s a blue chipper other than a has been?
greengold
April 05, 2023 at 07:14 am
Wouldn’t it be great if Gutekunst & his staff dedicated themselves to crushing R3 this year as well as every single round? Days 1 & 2 are huge in all NFL drafts, as are having to picks in R4. Wolf always liked to stick a couple of those top R4s.
Gutekunst has been careless in R3 throughout his tenure. His performance in that R3 has been poor.
Now’s the time to proactively turn that around. He cannot continue to waste half of Day 2.
EDGE players are projected to go off the charts in this span, R3-4 in April, surpassing the maximum numbers over the last 7 years.
That’s where trading an R2 comes into play. We don’t want an R2 trade to result in nothing.
Somebody buy those boys a box of Snickers to pass around after R2!
PatrickGB
April 05, 2023 at 07:58 am
I totally agree that the third round picks have disappointed. I have often joked about it. Maybe this year we have more second round picks to choose from. (Or fourth)
T7Steve
April 05, 2023 at 10:45 am
Gute always seems to reach or try a project in round three. One round early. When he's in round four or later, that's all you can get, so he's done relatively well. Rounds 1, 2 & 3 need to produce immediately, you can't experiment.
All teams are going to get a bust now and then, but maybe it's because we were always towards the end of the rounds that the 3rd has been treated like a 4th?
MainePackFan
April 05, 2023 at 08:48 am
I say we find a way to get 2 R3 picks this year. After all the R3 failures of the past it would seem that the odds are pretty good he hits in the 3rd eventually. Maybe this is the year : )
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 05, 2023 at 09:06 am
Should the Packers actually trade backwards in round 1 to around #20 they would end up getting a 3rd round equivalent pick. This would be how to get that extra 3rd rounder.
MainePackFan
April 05, 2023 at 09:13 am
That's true Knock, and depending on how the board flows, it's a real possibility.
golfpacker1
April 05, 2023 at 08:40 pm
That extra 3rd would get us one of the top Safeties, or WR, or a OL. Going from #15 to #20 would get us more than just a 3rd rounder back. With the holes we have it just makes to much sense, trade back. Thats what Al says and everyone on here seems to agree he knows what he is saying.
PatrickGB
April 05, 2023 at 07:17 am
I think that part of the reason Jones is paid so well is his locker room presence, his ability to pass pro and his receiving skill. And because (strangely) he has not been utilized much, he still has tread on those tires.
Flexing Thursday night football is outrageous! I have trouble with the signal and I hate it anyway. This makes it worse.
I wondered the same thing about Rich B. It really seems like he is getting what he wants. But, for now, I am not complaining. Some of his guys have been decent when called up to play on defense. My hope is that his no nonsense attitude seeps into the whole Packers culture.
Coldworld
April 05, 2023 at 07:42 am
I think the NFL is fooling itself. Even if I’m living in Dallas, Chicago or NY, changing a game from a weekend to a weekday evening on short notice is likely to mean I or others can’t or won’t go. So fire sale selling or reluctance to buy tickets and empty stadia and pissed off fans. While it might be worse for our fans, I think it’s worse for most than we think as well. I believe Mara of the NY Giants is a strong opponent for that reason.
LeotisHarris
April 05, 2023 at 08:54 am
It doesn't matter to them. They cannot lose. The owners have given Roger $60 million per year to stay quiet about where the bodies are buried, oversee the sale of the Commanders, and continue to rake in cash. The broadcast revenue stream won't allow for failure.
I'll always be a Packers fan. The unmitigated greed driving the NFL, and its relationship with sports betting will drive more fans away than scheduling, imho.
PeteK
April 05, 2023 at 10:00 am
I agree, tread lightly. Even American consumers have a limit of being abused and used by big business. I hope. I pay for the football package to receive Packer games, but go ahead increase it too much and I'm gone.
Swisch
April 05, 2023 at 10:41 am
Never underestimate the limits of humans -- through pride and greed and decadence -- to screw up a good thing.
On the other hand, we humans, by the grace of God, have shown the capacity for greatness.
As Bart Starr said, our destiny is a matter of choice, not of chance.
***
P.S. It would seemingly be a superhuman effort for me to give up the Packers, but I hope I could do it if the fans were jerked around enough.
I don't think I'd find an alternative in pickleball or cornhole, though -- at least not as a viewer -- but I'd keep looking for a replacement.
Somehow, some way, just maybe, I'd muddle through in life.
Tundraboy
April 05, 2023 at 09:14 am
"My hope that his no nonsense attitude seeps into the whole Packers culture."
All the way to being HC!
Thegreatreynoldo
April 05, 2023 at 07:23 am
I think Aaron Jones is getting about what he is worth. I remember during the season a couple of folks in the comments agreeing with me that they should find a way to keep Jones for 2023 because he really is what made the offense go.
Gute has one fourth rounder, two fifth rounder, and four seventh rounders. On day three, Gute has secured MVS and Runyan so far. Newman and Slaton are useful if not stellar. I hope he gets better on day three.
Ted Thompson had better drafts on just Day 3 than Gute has had for all seven rounds: to wit: Bakh, Hyde and Tretter, all day 3 in 2013. That 2013 draft is better than Gute's 2018 and 2020 draft, and is as good as Gute's 2019 draft.
Day 3 has been a desert under Gute, with the only players being MVS and Runyan. All day 3 guys are gone from 2018, 2019 and 2020 save Runyan. It looks like Slaton probably will be a decent rotational DL and I have hopes for McDuffie. Jury is out on 2022, though it looks promising.
From 2005 to 2017 (13 drafts), here are some nice picks on day three by TT: Poppinga, Johnny Jolly, Tyrone Culver, Crosby, Bishop, Hall, Flynn, Sitton, Lang, Wynn, Brad Jones (?), CJ Wilson, Starks, Newhouse, Quarless, Davon House, Mike Daniels, Hyde, Tretter, Bakhtiari, Linsley, [TT's last 3 years - 2015 to 2017 - shows some decline in TT] Blake Martinez, Dean Lowry, Jamaal Williams and Aaron Jones. That's 25 players in 13 drafts, almost 2 per draft.
And I am not counting the following guys: Mike Montgomery, Toffefson, LS Clark Harris (elsewhere), Guy (elsewhere), Giacomini (mostly elsewhere), Richard Rodgers (?), other almosts.
I still have a positive grade on Gute as a GM since he has significant strengths elsewhere, like pro personnel/waiver wire, UDFAs, and his first and second round picks are pretty good.
greengold
April 05, 2023 at 07:43 am
I couldn’t agree more. Maybe Gutekunst started righting that part of the ship. Too soon to tell, but Doubs & Tom could prove to be winners. Enagbare looks promising.
All of Carpenter, Ford, Walker & Toure have a chance, along with Doubs/Tom/Enagbare’s progression, to help make that change, Gutekunst’s own positive growth as a GM, a reality.
We need to see that happen. No question.
22 LB Quay Walker
28 DT Devonte Wyatt
35 WR Christian Watson
93 OT Sean Rhyan
132 WR Romeo Doubs
140 OT Zach Tom
179 EDGE Kingsley Enegbare
228 S Tariq Carpenter
234 DE Jonathan Ford
249 OT Rasheed Walker
258 WR Samori Toure
PeteK
April 05, 2023 at 10:26 am
-- With 3 thousand yd seasons along with 50 rec, Jones IMO is being used and paid perfectly. He is 15 among RBs in carries , but if receptions were included he would be top ten in usage.
---Over the past few decades we have been fortunate to have very good GMs. Let's not forget Gute's UDFAs--Lazard, Tonyan, Nijman, Barnes, and Taylor .
Packer_Fan
April 05, 2023 at 07:51 am
Sorry, not interested in the draft guide. Too much of a reach trying to figure out a GM's mind. The Thursday night flex issue is real. But we won't have to worry much this year.
I like trading down in the draft to get more picks. Drafting players is at best a 50% success rate. Having more picks gives you a better chance at landing starters. Especially in rounds one and two. So yeah, trade down a few spots, get the Edge or DL you want anyway and pick up a few more picks. 2nd and 4th rounds have been good to Gute
JerseyAl
April 05, 2023 at 07:56 am
If you're not interested, that's fine, but I just have to say, that's not the point of the draft guide at all.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 05, 2023 at 09:10 am
Yes, everyone who uses CCTV should be buying the draft guide to help support the website. Plus, it has great information that will be helpful once the Packers make their draft selections to review the guide.
Since'61
April 05, 2023 at 02:39 pm
Exactly Knock. I will read the guide prior to the draft but my primary purpose for purchasing the guide is to read up on the players the Packers actually select with their picks.
The great thing about the CHTV draft guide is that it's written specifically for Packer fans, it provides excellent content and it supports CHTV and the people who put it together on our behalf. Speaking for myself AL and his team do an excellent job and there is no reason not to buy the guide and show our support for CHTV and its contributors. It's money well spent. Thanks, Since '61
jannesbjornson
April 06, 2023 at 01:36 pm
It is very informative, like getting a McGinn scout's point of view. Some of the data changes after the Pro days and the rankings are subjective. Buy the Guide, folks.
Packer_Fan
April 05, 2023 at 05:49 pm
Sorry Al. Didn't want my reply to sound as a critique of the website. Unfortunately I may have done that. Again, sorry. This site is the only one I make comments with. I enjoy your comments and the comments of many of the members.
MainePackFan
April 05, 2023 at 09:09 am
Packer_Fan
If you enjoy the content on this free site, you might want consider supporting it. The Draft guide is about introducing us to players that may become Packers. If you follow the draft like most of us do, you will find this guide different from other draft info. Unlike most draft content, It is geared toward the Packers needs.
They do a great job with this draft guide and as a Packer fan I love it. That being said, even if "trying to figure out a GM's mind" wasn't my thing, I would buy this because I appreciate all the hard work they do here at CHTV to provide us with free content.
Consider it your way of saying thank you to CHTV for all their hard work : )
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 05, 2023 at 09:11 am
Well stated MainePack!
Of course......as always!!!
JerseyAl
April 05, 2023 at 10:39 am
Thank you for that!
RCPackerFan
April 05, 2023 at 11:31 am
Well said Maine,
I am just laughing at who gave you a thumbs down for that.
MainePackFan
April 05, 2023 at 11:43 am
Lol, I had to double check to make sure I hadn't said anything positive about Rodgers ; )
RCPackerFan
April 05, 2023 at 01:29 pm
Lol very true. thats an automatic downvote, or 10 lol.
greengold
April 07, 2023 at 03:21 pm
LOL. Well done, Mainer!!!
Pizzadoc
April 05, 2023 at 04:57 pm
Patreon is another way to support the site.
Thegreatreynoldo
April 05, 2023 at 09:14 am
If your not interested in the Draft Guide, one of the CHTV authors wrote a book on the salary cap, and I can recommend Scott Fitzgerald's book on the cap as well. Truly fascinating reading, I assure you!
marpag1
April 05, 2023 at 10:45 am
"Truly fascinating reading, I assure you!"
Thanks for the recommendation, Reynoldo, but I'll leave that book for you.
I don't know why, but somewhere in my head I think I just heard Colonel Reynoldo Jessup shouting from the witness stand: "Son, we live in a world that has [salary caps], and those [salary caps] have to be [understood] by [nerds] with [books]. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. My existence [as a capologist], while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves [your team’s season]. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me [to read that book] -- you NEED me [to read that book].
I image Russ Ball has used that line a few times, too.
BirdDogUni
April 05, 2023 at 01:52 pm
Well played mp1.
Well played...
dobber
April 05, 2023 at 07:59 am
Draft Guide--Well done! Not your first rodeo, but always well received. Thanks to you and your support group for the work done.
Jones--I said several times last summer that he should catch 80 passes and I wouldn't be surprised if he led the team in receptions. I'm still surprised that he was healthy and didn't eclipse 60. We'll see how this offense evolves (and it should evolve) in 2023....but I'd expect similar numbers and usage.
Thursday games are a travesty on all levels. They dump on fans, they limit game-planning and player usage, and they upset competitive balance for at least two teams every week. Dump 'em!
Seconds--I've been reluctant to comment on what appropriate compensation for 12 would be, but I think the Packers will likely try to put some "if A then B" partners in place for the 15 pick. They don't get to pick this high very often--and I hope they don't pick this high often in the future--so they should at least watch to see how the draft falls relative to their own board before moving out. If a guy lands there that they think is a game-changer, I think they need to use the pick. I'm all on board for moving down, but my guess is that the board will fall in such a way that finding a partner that will give appropriate value in return for the pick might be a challenge--so I'm guessing they'll be using #15.
Bisaccia--a lot of those guys listed are safeties and the cupboard is bare. 90-man roster--STs is the gateway for many of those extra 40 guys to get their foot in the door...and they don't cost much of anything or impact the rule of 51 cap number much.
RCPackerFan
April 05, 2023 at 09:41 am
"Jones--I said several times last summer that he should catch 80 passes and I wouldn't be surprised if he led the team in receptions."
Don't be surprised if he is at least top 3 if not higher this year. I can see Love utilizing the check downs a bit more often as a first year starter. He may make it through all the progressions, but he may choose to check down before he gets through all of them. So I would anticipate Jones getting more targets this year.
SicSemperTyrannis
April 11, 2023 at 02:21 am
Trade value for AR12 is second round this year, and conditional next. Plus giving the Jets something in 2025 if AR bails after 1 year. It is possible they don't get this done.
Johnblood27
April 05, 2023 at 08:07 am
Bisaccia as co-GM?
Now that AR is gone there might be a little more opportunity in that space...
Seriously, perhaps seeing Richie B's influence might be as simple as Gutey realizing that he and his scouting staff just are not tuned into the characteristics that make for a good special teamer. ...and Oh BTW, some of those guys can play some O and D snaps effectively as well... football players come in all shapes and sizes.
Maybe it's as simple as looking at what they have been doing and acknowledging that there is a hole in the process.
Maybe its a detrimental focus on "super-athlete-RAS-Combine-warrior-guy" and looking away from "super-football-player-guy" when all seems equal. Let's not forget that player acquisition is about PROJECTION, not objective evaluation. Attitude counts a lot when it is the fourth quarter and you are down 6 points. The other team has good athletes too. How will your players respond in the moment?
RCPackerFan
April 05, 2023 at 09:36 am
Moore is a guy to keep an eye out at S. People are thinking he is purely a special teams guy, which ultimately maybe all he does.
BUT, Gutey has had pretty damn good success at finding guys that aren't in high demand, and they turn in some of their best football for GB. (Campbell, Douglas).
Racingdad
April 05, 2023 at 04:14 pm
It would not be surprise to see moore as a starting safety this year if they play him at free safety like he played in college the niners tryed to change him into a strong safety and wanted him to put on weight than he got hurt and never really worked out for them , but if he can stay healthy he just might be another gute find !! Guess we shall see
Coldworld
April 05, 2023 at 09:44 am
Getting STers set before the draft could change the focus in later rounds and UDFA. That has been our primary source and potentially skews picks to certain traits, positions or experience. It will be interesting to see if there’s any discernible difference in what we do after day two.
PatrickGB
April 05, 2023 at 11:49 am
Cold, That’s a good point. I could see the team move around in the later rounds and maybe draft good players on offense or defense that fell through the cracks. Projects who just need time yet contributing in the future. Not drafting for just special teams but for roles elsewhere.
BirdDogUni
April 05, 2023 at 02:05 pm
Knowing Gutey the way we do, there's absolutely no way he totally sits out the 6th round. He'll find a way, either moving up or moving down to find at least one pick in the 6th round, IMO.
Gutey just isn't built to watch the 6th round go by without making a pick.
jannesbjornson
April 06, 2023 at 12:55 pm
Maybe a player trade gets him into rd six, or move 2024 selections. There will be value guys in round six.
greengold
April 07, 2023 at 03:48 pm
You’re right. There’s great value all the way through.
mrtundra
April 05, 2023 at 08:23 am
Hey Al, I ordered the Draft Guide. Now where do I go to open it? I do not see any link to it, on my CHTV page.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 05, 2023 at 09:15 am
It is cumbersome to find. If I understand where you are in the process there is a little icon up above to click on it. Hope this helps!
mrtundra
April 05, 2023 at 09:35 am
Thanks, KTSOOY! I found it! I wasn't hitting the "download" button, before.
JerseyAl
April 05, 2023 at 10:41 am
thanks for helping him out. I honestly couldn't have answered his question because I haven't needed to order one!
croatpackfan
April 06, 2023 at 04:35 pm
Shame on you, Al. Even I ordered one.
Since'61
April 05, 2023 at 08:35 am
Al, first off excellent work on the draft guide as usual. I have skimmed through the entire guide and have begun to read through it. Probably finish it today and then take a deeper dive position by position. My appreciation to you and the entire team for a job well done.
Thursday Blues is just another example of where the fans stack up for the NFL, which is nowhere. They could not care less about the fans who go to the games. They are moving forward with their plans to have every viewer pay for every game. Probably by the end of this decade fans will need to buy a "seat" to watch a game from home and pay for the seat as if they were at the stadium. The viewer will get the "advantage" of seeing the game from the view of their "seat" as if they were actually in the stadium. It's only a matter of time. Then AI will be used to call the plays and on and on. Watching the game as we have known will change significantly and so will the cost.
I guess it makes sense that Bisaccia is replacing Rodgers as the team's latest GM. Bisaccia is building his STs with the players he wants as he should. It will be one less phase of the team that he needs to worry about when he takes over for Matt LaChooch if things go badly this season.
I've been advocating for the Packers to trade down out of the #15 spot for the last several weeks. The key is for the Packers to find a willing trade partner. It would be great if the Packers can acquire both of the Jets second round picks. That would give the Packers 5 picks from the top 64 players in the draft. Could be a solid approach to quickly solidify the numerous weaknesses in our position groups. Thanks, Since '61
Packerpasty
April 05, 2023 at 12:39 pm
I wonder what MLF thinks about everyone saying Bisaccia is head coach in waiting...maybe it will light a fire in him...a critical year ahead for "LaChooch"....
Since'61
April 05, 2023 at 02:28 pm
Packerpasty - my hope is that promoting Bisaccia to Assistant HC is a subtle approach to warming up MLFs HC seat. Hopefully MLF gets the message. If the season goes bad I'd expect Murphy/Gute to chuck LaChooch and move Bisaccia into an interim HC role for the remainder of the season and then promote Bisaacia to HC assuming he does a decent job as the interim HC.
In the alternative maybe LaChooch feels the heat and hen responds and becomes solid HC in 2023.
Thanks, Since '61
Johnblood27
April 05, 2023 at 06:30 pm
back to LaChooch I see...
Since'61
April 05, 2023 at 08:03 pm
If the Chooch fits he needs to wear it and own it. Thanks, Since '61
Johnblood27
April 06, 2023 at 06:32 am
Oh, it definitely fits.
Thought he might have had his Mom sit next to you on a flight into GB or some such attitude softening event happened. (Mason Crosby's Mom and Big Al...)
I hope that the absence of "The Ego" will free him to be a better HC version of himself.
Only time will tell.
Since'61
April 06, 2023 at 09:13 am
Agree Johnbloood. Hopefully his experience with Aaron Rodgers has taught him how to deal with big egos going forward. If he is gong to earn the respect of his players he needs to able to handle all types of personalities professionally and consistently. He can't be folding up and giving in to every player who pushes back. He needs to explain and enable them to understand his vision for the team, his game plans even down to individual play in a particular situation.
LaChooch is either the HC or he isn't. NFL teams are not democracies. Someone needs to be in charge and that responsibility falls upon the HC. Thanks, Since '61
RCPackerFan
April 05, 2023 at 08:42 am
Jonesy -
I agree that they need to find better ways to use Jones. Jones is a dynamic weapon and if they can find ways to get him in space more it will only help our offense out more. One way that I think they can get him better looks out of the backfield is running more motion plays. The motion takes the LB's eyes a way for a split second which many times allows the OL to get him blocked, which creates bigger openings for Jones. Motion plays from other players will help Jones out!
Thursday Blues -
They shouldn't allow it to be changed for at least 1 month. But the NFL doesn't care about fans. They don't care about us. But we care about them. Its just the way it is.
Super Seconds -
I am all for trading back and getting another 2nd round if they can. I am also all for them to come off the 13th pick if they can get the Jets 2 2nd round picks. I would love to have 2-3 2nd round picks this year.
Richie Rich -
Special teams won't suffer that is for sure.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 05, 2023 at 09:17 am
Would love to see the Packers draft a 2nd WR this year that has talent as a kick returner to back Nixon. When Nixon goes down the cupboards seem pretty bare. There are 3 or 4 good options that come to mind.
RCPackerFan
April 05, 2023 at 09:30 am
I could definitely see them looking to draft another WR that could be a returner too. They have Nixon, but they need other guys that can do it.
A couple of guys to maybe keep an eye on. Nathaniel Dell, Tre Tucker. Smaller, slot type of guys with speed. Could be great if used as a motion guy and could be return guys.
MainePackFan
April 05, 2023 at 09:32 am
"A couple of guys to maybe keep an eye on. Nathaniel Dell"
You beat me to it RC : )
RCPackerFan
April 05, 2023 at 10:40 am
He would be an incredible slot guy. Could be used as a motion guy as well.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 05, 2023 at 06:48 pm
RC and Maine,
Total agreement about Tank! Maybe Derius, or Mingo!
MainePackFan
April 05, 2023 at 09:31 am
Tank Dell!! I heard they had him in for a visit. That would be a very unPackerlike pick. Take him in the 3rd, let's break that curse ; )
RCPackerFan
April 05, 2023 at 10:41 am
We do need a slot type of WR. Sometimes you have to go outside of the standards to get better.
MainePackFan
April 05, 2023 at 12:00 pm
His tape blows my mind. His twitch and burst shows up everywhere. He run precise routes and seems to catch everything thrown at him. He's the type of weapon the Packers don't have in their arsenal right now.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 05, 2023 at 06:48 pm
Agree!
Coldworld
April 06, 2023 at 09:03 am
He’s the kind of guy that has translated incredibly badly to the NFL. He’s not small, he’s tiny and flimsy: 5’8 3/8″, 163. That works better against lesser athletes and more porous coverages. In the NFL, he’s going to have to get a couple of yards on his coverage to get open and then weather the hits. That rarely happens. It’s difficult enough 20 pounds heavier and 2 inches taller.
Coldworld
April 05, 2023 at 05:07 pm
Melton and Toure are slot types, particularly Melton.
golfpacker1
April 05, 2023 at 08:54 pm
Isn't Bo Melton-Rutgers Slot WR and kick returner on practice squad. Tank Dell weighs 165 lbs.
Coldworld
April 05, 2023 at 09:55 am
We’ve a couple of guys with return experience already on board that I’ve noticed going through futures and STers we’ve signed. Racking my brains to remember who, but can’t right now.
RCPackerFan
April 05, 2023 at 10:42 am
I can't remember if Bo Melton has experience returning? I know Watson and Doubs could do it. I just don't want our top WR's doing it.
greengold
April 07, 2023 at 04:29 pm
Melton has PR experience. He’s had the majority of his work out of the slot, but he has outside experience as well.
Huge versatility with Bo.
Racingdad
April 05, 2023 at 03:59 pm
Cold -could you be thinking , Corey Ballantine, tyrell ford as two guys on our roster that can be returners ?
Coldworld
April 05, 2023 at 05:05 pm
Yes, I think that’s it. There might be another too. Wasn’t in a position to go look it up, but I’d noticed them in digging through. I think Melton has some too, as RCPF pointed out.
jannesbjornson
April 05, 2023 at 03:08 pm
Tre Tucker in the 7th.
Packers0808
April 05, 2023 at 09:30 am
RB assistant head coach, being groomed as a New Head Coach?
marpag1
April 05, 2023 at 03:02 pm
No, despite what so many people are suggesting.
If my info is up to date, EIGHTEEN out of 32 NFL teams have "assistant head coaches" - the Dolphins, Bengals, Browns, Titans, Broncos, Chiefs, Eagles, Commanders, Lions, Packers, Vikings, Falcons, Panthers, Saints, Buccaneers, Cardinals, Rams and Niners.
In addition, the Dolphins, Ravens and Seahawks have "associate head coaches." (Yes, the Dolphins have both an associate AND an assistant head coach).
Mike McCarthy had Winston Moss as an assistant head coach for 13 years before McCarthy got fired, so don’t hold your breath if you're hoping MLF will now get fired.
Many times, "promoting" to assistant head coach is just a ploy to prevent your staff from getting poached by other teams.
MainePackFan
April 05, 2023 at 09:41 am
Super Seconds-
I did this mock yesterday after reading through the Draft Guide:
Traded # 45 to Dallas for #58 and #90
15- Lucas Van Ness
58- Cody Mauch
78- Sydney Brown
90- Sam Laporta
116- Jonathan Mingo
149- Tank Dell
170- Max Duggan (reach)
232- Byron Young DT
235- Daniel Scott S
242- Evan Hull RB
256- Jake moody K
golfpacker1
April 05, 2023 at 09:08 pm
If we can't get one of the top 5 TE in this draft and at least 2 TE overall then we have lost out on our biggest need. Thats the problem with not trading back with #15. Ness is good but so are the next 10 Edge rushers. We need to get at least one of the top 5 TEs in what is the best TE draft class in 20 years, We can get Edge and OL later. Can't afford to miss out on one of the best TEs.
I was hot on Tank Dell early in the draft cycle, but he is too small @ 5'8 165lbs. I started picking Andre Iosivas-WR Princeston. He is 6'3 210lbs and runs faster than Dell. He is also a track star in the Decathalon. He was a star at the Senior Bowl and catches everything.
BirdDogUni
April 05, 2023 at 09:21 pm
The only problem I see, is the last few seasons, we've hardly used TEs. I suppose it's because we didn't have a good one, barring the one season Big Bob put together... If the premise is we'll use a top 5 TE, then by all means, draft one. (Or three.)
Not sure MaLF can implement a good TE into the offense? (If he can't, I guess the next HC might be able to.)
Saw Andre Iosivas on NFL Network today. Seems like he's ready to prove all the doubters wrong. He's got small hands, but they're still bigger than Myles Murphy's hands. He'd look good opposite Watson if he ends up in Green and Gold.
Coldworld
April 06, 2023 at 09:23 am
Great all around athlete, but he’s not a natural catcher and isn’t elite by NFL standards in terms of speed (4.43) nor does he have the agility to extend his catch radius like Doubs or Toure. He’s a plus jumper who can high point, but seems reluctant to invite the contact that goes with that or simply struggles with contested catches.
This guy could be good with the right coach and usage. But he’s going to need to learn a full route tree and to excel at route technique I believe. He’s also got to embrace the physical. He’s not as elusive through his feet and bend as Doubs, who is of similar size or as agile. He’s not a true burner. He’s a guy we’d need to use over the middle a lot I think. Not sure how he fits, but as a second perimeter guy opposite Watson, probably not my choice.
dobber
April 06, 2023 at 09:26 am
Janis ran better, but he reminds me on him.
greengold
April 06, 2023 at 09:45 am
At least Andrei's hands 8 3/4" are bigger than (2022 R2 #50) Tyquan Thornton's 8 1/4" hands....
Thornton had 22 rec for 247yds and 2 TDs with the Patriots last year.
BirdDogUni
April 05, 2023 at 09:33 pm
What do you think of Bryce Ford-Wheaton and Matt Landers?
Wheaton is: 6' 4" 221lbs and runs faster than Iosivas.
Landers is: 6' 4" 200lbs and runs faster than Iosivas too...
Coldworld
April 06, 2023 at 09:38 am
Landers is raw. He is older, but needs a lot of work in his route techniques. He also is prone to having the ball knocked out in contested catches and to double catching when open. He’s got some explosion and speed, he’s good off the line.
As a later round prospect to initially run go routes, I’d say he’s very similar value proposition to MVS as a rookie, but with more suddenness at the line. They ran the same 40 time I think. They both had a very limited route tree and issues with route technique. MVS was a late 5th. If we took Landers there and run an O where receivers come in and out for roles, I could see him being a useful piece as an additional deep threat, but expect the same issues with drops as MVS put us through.
Wheaton is an even rawer route runner. He ran a very limited route tree and almost exclusively on the left perimeter. That said he’s a better all round athlete and a beast at 221 and 6’4. He is a much more natural locator of the ball and catcher than Landers. His potential, if he can learn is high. Right now he’s a go route only guy.
With his 4.38 speed and size and all around physical potential, he’s going to go much higher than Landers I suspect, based mostly on potential, but I would take him first if the two. Immediately, he’s a better blocker but otherwise a go route only option, so, like Landers, are we willing to use him as a situational piece and accept that his blocking won’t really factor till he learns more routes and versatility?
Then the question is, where do you place him in terms of ranking? I think he gets over drafted on upside. I could see a team taking him in the second half of the 3rd as a result. Would I hate it if that was us? No, but he is a low floor guy.
I just think he’s a guy that compliments Watson/Doubs/Toure/Melton quite well if we let him do the go thing initially not insist he become fully interchangeable from the outset. So I admit, he’s a high upside low floor guy I’d like, but I just wonder how well we will fit him from a coaching perspective. Landers I would not take before the 5th.
Another, very different, big receiver to consider as a possible value/role option is CJ Johnson. He’s not fast, but he’s big and has great hands and contested catch ability. Great power and balance. He’s very physical. A possible 7th/UDFA candidate for the Lazard role over the middle. 6’2” 224. Projected to run the 40 in about 4.6, but held out of the combine by an Achilles issue. More impressive in contested catches and physicality over the short the middle than the similar athletes Justin Shorter or Elijah Higgins, who I think get drafted higher as TE prospects (particularly Higgins). Some questions over his motor. Johnson could be a cheap role player who can and will make tough catches in contact. Just 4 credited drops in his last 2 seasons over 100 plus catches and 1500 plus yards for East Carolina.
MainePackFan
April 06, 2023 at 08:00 am
In this mock I didn't like the offers at #15. Van Ness was the BPA, very much in the R Gary mold in my opinion. I wouldn't draft any of the TE's at 15. LaPorta was the 6th ranked TE on both Draft Network and Draft Buzz so I was fine with him at #90, though I do agree with you that a 2nd TE would be appropriate.
I'm a big fan of Iosivas and have mocked him to the Packers quite a bit. We already have that type of receiver in Watson and I wanted a different skill set. In spite of his size, Dell's production at Houston makes me think that he is a different cat when in comes to small receivers. Dell also dominated at the Senior Bowl, no one could cover him.
Swisch
April 05, 2023 at 10:16 am
If the Packers don't see a potential superstar at pick #15 -- especially at edge rusher, or Washington at TE -- then I'm all for trading back.
I would like to get a superstar with our first pick, though, if possible, and then look to the rest of the draft for stars and starters and other solid additions.
***
In a way, our salary cap quash may be good thing.
With all of our recent draft picks plus those coming in this year's draft, let's develop what we have.
If we can pick up a Campbell or a Douglas as a good find who has been overlooked and left in the bargain bin, then let's do that, too.
As far as this kind of thinking as it relates to our pass catchers, it may be best to go all in with our current corps -- including Watson, Doubs, Toure, Melton, and Goodson -- giving them lots of snaps and targets.
Perhaps draft Washington at TE and a wide receiver to add to the mix.
Plus, as Al says above, get Jones more involved in the passing game, also remembering that Dillon can be a force as a receiver rumbling downfield after the catch.
***
I want the Packers to contend for the playoffs this year with Jordan Love as a first-season starter at QB, the goal being at least 9-8.
However, I think we can do that with our current roster plus the new guys from this year's draft. (Anyway, always play to win, whoever is on the field.)
In any case, let's get them the experience for a big run in 2024 and beyond.
I like to think of it much more as a reload than a rebuild with the Packers, as I'm really excited about what the Packers already have going in terms of talent.
The key to me is what the coaches will do to bring out the best in our players.
RCPackerFan
April 05, 2023 at 10:39 am
"Super Seconds - Now that I'm done with the draft guide (exhales loudly again), I'd be fully onboard with the Packers trading back in this draft. "
I have been doing some thinking about this. I really like adding as many 2nd round picks as possible. Lets say hypothetically they trade Rodgers to the Jets for a 2nd round pick, 42 overall or possibly even both of their 2nd round picks. I am all for that. If we could end up with 3-4 picks in the first 45, that is a team changing move!
But if we were to get at least one of the Jets 2nd round picks, we have some fire power to move up in the first round if we chose to. If we would trade our 15th and 45th picks we could get to around pick 8. That could significantly change the player we would be looking at drafting vs at 15. We could potentially be looking at going with Will Anderson, Jalen Carter, Tyree Wilson, Christian Gonzalez, Devon Weatherspon, Peter Skoronski. (all of these guys are top 10 according to CBS Sports)
The only reason, why I would consider moving up is if we had the extra 2nd round picks. WE could end up with a premier player, and then still have 1-2 picks in the 2nd round to add more quality players. I would be happy with that.
If we were to trade down from the 15th spot, we would be looking at getting a 3rd round pick if we traded down 5 spots. If we traded down 10 spots we would get a 2nd round pick. This is according to the trade value charts.
Swisch
April 05, 2023 at 10:53 am
It seems good in any draft, if reasonable, to go for at least one premier player from the college ranks, a potential superstar.
Although I'm not in favor of trading up if it means giving away too many top draft picks, your scenario seems wise, RC, as well as exciting.
RCPackerFan
April 05, 2023 at 11:29 am
I agree. This is a scenario I have been thinking about for a bit. The only way I would consider going up is if we had at least 1 of the Jets 2nd round picks, and preferably both 2nd round picks.
Also it would depend on who was on the board at the time or how it is falling. I have a feeling we will see at least 3 QB's going in the top 10 and potentially 4, which means there will be some good players dropping to around 8. Depending on who GB would want I could see them making that type of move.
golfpacker1
April 05, 2023 at 09:33 pm
First off, moving up into the top ten from #15 will cost us a 1st round pick at least. The player we would get @ 10 won't be that much better than what we would get @ 15 or 20.
Al hit it on the head when he said trade back and get more picks. We have too many holes to fill on this team to spend #15 on a player we could get at # 25 to #35. Definitely not a trade up. There will be a lot of good players picked in rounds 2, 3, & 4. We should take advantage and get as many as we can.
I don't think we will get #13 from the Jets but I do think we will end up with both of the 2023 2nd round picks, plus a 2024 1st and players, That could give us 4 picks before the 3rd round. We can fill 4 big needs and still have 7 or 8 picks to fill more.
stockholder
April 05, 2023 at 11:52 am
Trade downs -
How fast everyone forgot the TJ watt.
for Kevin King trade down.
Edge - Pass rushers
Or a Safety and extra pick.
????
Not this time guys.
Please Not this Time.
Untylu1968
April 05, 2023 at 02:19 pm
Didn't you have a comment about, quit living in the past? The future is now!
stockholder
April 05, 2023 at 02:55 pm
No - My reference is about the next step.
Nolan Smith is the next step for a Defense.
(As long as they want the 3-4-4) CM3?
Wr was the next step for the offense.
My pick over TE was Wr - Rashon Rice.
His comparison is a younger Randall Cobb.
You must stretch the field with the WRs
for the Te to be effective.
Unless you go back to the west coast Offense.
When Ahmad Green and Chewie were favorites.
Letting players go to the enemy
and then Defensing against them. Sucks!
jannesbjornson
April 05, 2023 at 03:26 pm
I will defend against Cobb, Tonyan and Lazard all day. The trade down scenario is to move from #15 to the 20's...and add a three pick, maybe more. I set the board in January after the conference games. Players don't improve because of training seminars pre-combine. The one pick should go the Edge, or an OT like Darnell Wright or Anton Harrison. Fix the Right Flank. Extra picks from the Jets in round two should be a line set in the sand. No future value speculation. I presented my guys and will stick with them. I take Kraft over the other TEs.
Yards after the Catch. Tillman is a pro-style guy. Rice right behind him. The lightweights don't hold up. Do you want Mazi Smith? What about the handgun charges?
stockholder
April 05, 2023 at 05:27 pm
I don't want Mazzi at all.
I've been 100 % behind G. Dexter.
The only guy I would draft from MI.
Is DJ Turner.
greengold
April 07, 2023 at 04:21 pm
Totally agree.
Mazi, like Bresee, has no production.
Turner is the real deal.
Dexter is a big old cherry on top for DL rotation. I like a couple late round guys for depth. 5 techs.
golfpacker1
April 05, 2023 at 09:51 pm
I like Kraft also Jannes. Of the Top 5 TEs Kraft and Mayer both have played in the cold and thats not easy. Anybody can play when its 70 degrees. 10 degrees with wind is a little different. Kraft and Mayers can block and catch equally well. If we can trade back to the #20 to #30 range we are going to get a 2nd rounder and a later pick. Later in 1st round will be perfect timing to pick a TE and good value. LaPorta and Schoonmaker would make good Packers too.
We can get a really good Edge with our second pick. That group is strong too. I like about 10 different WRs. There are so many good ones that we will have many good options, They are all big and fast. Give me the one that catches everything.
jannesbjornson
April 06, 2023 at 05:48 am
I have mocked Schoonmaker in the fourth-fifth (maybe he drops there?). Double down on Edge, TEs, CBs and an OT from Rd one, or two. See what the Jets give up. Sounds like Lynch wants to get into the game, but Rodgers may hold a grudge from 2005?
marpag1
April 05, 2023 at 03:44 pm
"How fast everyone forgot the TJ watt.
for Kevin King trade down."
Ooh, you're right, I forgot about that. Remind me... was it something like trading down from 14 to 18 and still picking up Jaire Alexander?
Or did you prefer having Marcus Davenport over Jaire PLUS a first rounder PLUS a fifth rounder?
jannesbjornson
April 05, 2023 at 09:36 pm
The King pick cost the Fans a super bowl.
croatpackfan
April 07, 2023 at 05:29 am
No. You pointed the wrong player...
stockholder
April 06, 2023 at 07:02 am
I hated the thought of Davenport.
Loved the trade down. Extra pick.
Not a fan on the trade up. But understood it.
Gitey also gave up a 3 to do that.
Alexander was short. Good; but short.
Heard he was climbing. Was his best pick.
I would have gone for the safety.
We wouldn't have drafted SAVAGE then.
It isn't the trade downs I hate.
But the cost of going up.
golfpacker1
April 06, 2023 at 12:02 pm
I agree completely Stock. God I hate the trade ups. They are so costly. I also would have picked a safety. The same scenario played out last year. I would have picked Watson instead of Wyatt because he was a 1st round talent and we needed WR more that DT by a wide margin. It was too costly to move back up in the 2nd to grab him when we could of had him for nothing extra @ 28.
In my personal draft at home I would have drafted Watson @ 28. Then with the pick we gave away in the 3rd round, I would have drafted the DT that I wanted and graded higher than Wyatt, which was Travis Jones-U Conn. Bigger, still very fast, and offered run defense and better pass rush.
Trading back is the key to turning what should be a good draft into a great draft by filling more holes with quality players. By trading back we get to pick one of the top 3 TEs which I think is our biggest need. We don't want to miss out on one of the top 5 TEs in what is the best TE group in 20 years. I hope its Kinkaid but would be just as happy with Washington, Mayer, Kraft, or Kunz. We need at least one of them and another later. Schoonmaker or Laporta or Whyle would work. Late round pick Kemari Averett rebuilds the TE room in one draft.
The Edge posistion group is so strong we can get a great one with our first 2nd rounder. 3rd round is for the best of the Safety group and thats where they should start to come off the board. I hope its Jordan Battle.
jannesbjornson
April 06, 2023 at 01:09 pm
Davenport has one less Sack than Gary and will be part of the Purple this autumn. He would have been a viable player. Both guys had injuries. Jaire brings the Swagger every Defense needs. If Barry handcuffs him in Game One, I would Fire him before the next game.
True, I had Gary and Montez Sweat in that order. Safety could be had later. The Maryland crew played fast and loose, not really downhill guys. I liked Thornhill.
marpag1
April 07, 2023 at 04:52 am
I actually didn't like the Gary pick at all, so I probably should just shut up. I literally said, 'Please, anyone but Rashan Gary...
jannesbjornson
April 07, 2023 at 10:52 am
I liked him as a big guy with speed. No complaints. They should have used him up and down from day one and spent less CAP on the Smiths. Just fill-ins for the previous whiffs and the misplayed extension to Perry.
GLM
April 05, 2023 at 01:40 pm
Last year was a shotgun draft of O-linemen. I would expect this year to be on the other side of the ball, in terms of linemen. I'd place a higher priority on a DE/Edge, and a DT than on an OL. We are much thinner there than we are on offense. Besides, is it unreasonable to expect something out of Sean Rhyan or Rasheed Walker?
By the way, Al...the draft guide is excellent...even better this year.
golfpacker1
April 06, 2023 at 12:09 pm
I am with you GLM. Rhyan and Walker are like extra bonus for us because we didn't get anything out of them. It's almost as if they are in this draft class. Both were very good Offensive Tackles in major conferences on good teams. Rhyan started at LT as a freshman. People are crazy for already calling him a bust. He will surprise this year. Walker could be the 2022 draft day steal for us. The Oline is strong and it might be a good time to trade Bahktiari while he is healthy and still worth a first rounder. We have multiple players to plug in for him.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 07, 2023 at 08:42 am
GLM,
I would agree that DL/Edge are both very important and at the moment unless Bachtiari is traded that the focus should be at DL/Edge over OL. I have hopes for Rhyan & Walker. Hopefully we see great progress for both!
barutanseijin
April 05, 2023 at 04:06 pm
One thing we can do about the Thursday night flex nonsense: not watch.
Racingdad
April 05, 2023 at 04:26 pm
As far as backup qb’s to draft their ar 4 or more that should be there in 7th rd that could be good to develop Tyson bagent,Tim demote, Clayton tune,Hilton Ayer’s even d t r anyone would work and not cost a high draft pick
GLM
April 05, 2023 at 04:59 pm
I don't think Tune is there in the 7th...
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 07, 2023 at 08:44 am
One back-up QB that is pretty damn impressive having watched him is Dorian Thompson - Robinson. I could see him sneaking into round 3. Looked great at the Combine and IMO as good as the top QB's that were there.
ImaPayne
April 06, 2023 at 12:12 pm
The 15th rounder you give up could be a HOF some day and then again not. The packers again this year need a lot but dont have a lot of money. All draft picks will want to be paid in green backs thus, the more picks the costlier. I say bundle a bunch of picks and get a couple of seconds and pick quality players but less of them.
golfpacker1
April 06, 2023 at 12:20 pm
You fill out the 53 man roster with the best 53 you can. The picks after the 3rd round don't cost any more than minimum salary vets. Probably cheaper and who knows, maybe you find another Aaron Jones. We have to pay every one on the 53 and the practice squad anyway, so why not cheaper and younger. Don't waste the picks.
golfpacker1
April 06, 2023 at 12:15 pm
Bagent is a worthwhile project to draft late. He looked good at the combine and had jaw dropping numbers in college. 17000 yards passing, 159 TD passes, and 70% completion rate.
Possible UDFA signing if we don't get one in draft is Adrian Martinez-Nebraska & Kansas State. Has good upside. His player comp is Jalen Hurts, but with better arm and runs as good.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 07, 2023 at 08:45 am
Dorian Thompson - Robinson
[email protected]
April 06, 2023 at 12:46 pm
Dare I say it? There's at least one problem with the Packer Draft Trivia:
The Packers have twice had the first overall pick in the draft. One pick was Paul Hornung. Who was the other?
A. JIM AND JIMMY HASLAM B. HARRY AND DAVID TEPPER
C. AL AND STAN KROENKE D. MORRIS AND JEFF LURIE
I didn't know you could draft two players (who look like owners) with a single pick.
JerseyAl
April 10, 2023 at 08:00 am
ouch! looks like a copy and paste issue there... There's always ONE thing that slips by all the editors...
Grandfathered
April 06, 2023 at 10:57 pm
Thanks for the draft guide. I think you should charge more for it - I would've paid $20 or more. Looks like alot of work and knowledge put into it.
tm_inter
April 08, 2023 at 11:15 am
Al, I have a complaint to make. Today when I tried to login I was told that the username "tm_inter" is not allowed. But that's the name I have always used in CheeseTV, so I was surprised and stunned at the same time.
Please advise what I should do - try a new username?
Thanks and regards.
Cartwright
April 09, 2023 at 03:28 pm
Al, the commercials are also a game killer. The constant breaks do not make the game enjoyable to watch anymore. My stategy has been to hit the mute button when the ads come on, but this antic is getting played out. It seems like your watching as much commercial as the game itself. Been watching the XFL as an alternative, but the play is decidedly slower. When Rodgers gets traded their may be no more reason to hang on... for what, to put up with an assault on the senses while attempting to take in a game... no thanks, maybe we should stop watching, would teach those greed balls who have ruined our game a lesson.